I hate to start a thread for this but

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    I hate to start a thread for this but

    Post by Forum Pirate on Wed Jul 11, 2012 12:19 pm

    How hard do css and hcsm hit, with which catalyst? Is hyper mode necessary fo 0hkos or would I be wasting a ring slot?

    The idea is to use hcsm and wog in tandem, force them to dodge hcsm so I can time my wog for the end of their roll, and vice versa, with twop being for turtles and css for anyone I can get it to hit.

    http://tinyurl.com/8269f7z

    The build in question. Experienced casters are the people I'm actually looking to hear from. I know it will work in theory. I need to know if it works in practice.


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    Re: I hate to start a thread for this but

    Post by Fotitudo on Wed Jul 11, 2012 1:43 pm

    First of all, why 50 faith?
    You need only 28, for wrath and then use "Velkas Talisman", scales with Int.
    I have an similar build, but without twop. I used it once, and it was an aweful feeling.

    For the Rings: Try Bellowing Dragoncrest, Sun´s Firstborn or Wolfring, in my opinion there all the way better.
    I would use Logan´s Catalys and remove dusk crown ring.
    You cant even survive one wrath of the gods. Or even you cant punish anything ...

    Atm. i play with an Mage/Pyro Build

    35 Vit
    28 Att
    30 End
    16 Str
    30 Dex (up to 45 -> SL 135)
    8 Res
    44 Int
    With Velkas Rapier, Crest Shield, Pyro Flame+5 and Logans Catalyst
    Great Combustion, Chaos Fireball, Fire Tempest, Crystal Spear and Crystal Homing, and im doin pretty well, if i can manage my spells silly
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    Re: I hate to start a thread for this but

    Post by Rynn on Wed Jul 11, 2012 2:12 pm

    With both the Dusk Crown and Bellowing Dragoncrest Ring, while using the Tin Crystalization Catalyst your Homing Crystal Soul Masses do 1100 in total, and your Crystal Soul Spheres do 1050.

    While you are holding the TCC, even pyromancies and Miracles have casts reduced, making the Logans Catalyst a better choice for the build. As this drops damage to 900 and 820 respectively, I'd then reccomend using Hyper Mode.

    I told you about the spear and bows, right? You should be careful about those.
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    Re: I hate to start a thread for this but

    Post by WyrmHero on Wed Jul 11, 2012 2:25 pm

    Forum if you want to test damage I have the mage knight at SL 120 which has 420 magic defense. Regarding your other post Great Lightning Spear is surprisingly fast with 45 Dex, so keep 1 in reserve for those GMB users. I would recommend the any projectile spell + Chameleon combo.


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    Re: I hate to start a thread for this but

    Post by DamageCK on Wed Jul 11, 2012 2:55 pm

    A bow is super effective against sorcery, but with WoG they'll be less likely to just stand there and wait for you to cast so they can punish it. If you're going caster only, I'd agree on hyper mode. Obviously you're going to get a lot of people who just try to catch you with a BS the whole time you're casting. Then again, if you're a good player, and you are, you'll figure out the best way to make it work for you.


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    Re: I hate to start a thread for this but

    Post by Fotitudo on Wed Jul 11, 2012 6:00 pm

    Like Rynn said, i recommend Logan´s for every (!) hybrid build. (Sorceries + Miracles/Pyro).
    Only with one missclick you waste 1 wog, because of the halved spells form tin cryst.

    In my opinion an "glass cannon" build without power within is useless. You deal a good amount of damage, get cheap kills with tranquil, or an lucky Crystal Spear kill, but every experienced player will crush you with ease.

    Think about bows, wog, turtling or spears in general.
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    Re: I hate to start a thread for this but

    Post by billy_bayonet on Wed Jul 11, 2012 7:22 pm

    you can dead angle with wog! turtlers beware!


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    Re: I hate to start a thread for this but

    Post by Forum Pirate on Wed Jul 11, 2012 7:32 pm

    In explanation, the dusk crown is to counter the loss from the TCC and I will be starting thr fights at under 20%hp, meaning 1 hit would be fatal anyways. A TCC CSS will deal 1190 and a full hcsm just over 1200. If you still recommend dropping the TCC for logans, would you suggest keeping the dusk ring or using another?

    Power within is an option, but either I'm then not starting with the rtsr active or I start with the rtsr active and have to counter it with the sanctus of live for 20 seconds. If I counterd with sanctus the equipment slots would make my already easily dodges spells predictable, because I'd be constantly swapping between talismine and catalyst, effectively telegraphing my next move. If someone has a solution to that I'll happily include pw.

    50 faith is to maximise the wogs effectiveness putting its damage at around 700 a cast, and even cutting to 30 and putting the 20 points into vit or end would accomplish nothing because my attacks do not use stamina and I will be killed in 1 hit by most everyone because I'm in hyper mode (under 20%hp,) so don't benefit from armor or extra hp.

    Twop is to stop turtles dodging my spells, they're the only ones cautious enough to give me the space to cast it. Then i can laugh and spam 700 a hit dead angle wogs or css 1200 a hit css until they die.

    Yeah, anything that shoots or pokes will be very dangerous, but then I'll likely go through 1/3rd to half their hp with wog and 2/3rds plus with css &hcsm so I should be able to keep them wary of my super charged spells.

    And as an experienced player, I can promise you that caution is always good advice against casters, especially if they wog punish an attack for 700 damage, so they're not likely to "crush me with ease" until after they know my attack pattern, and if I do my job right, they won't live that long.


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    Re: I hate to start a thread for this but

    Post by Rynn on Wed Jul 11, 2012 7:38 pm

    If you've ever done a Hybrid, you know that using the TCC *** up your casts with WoG. IE: You'll loose your 3 casts and only get 1.
    Meanwhile, Logans Cat with the RTSR on will still manage to do 1300+ damage per hit, so your Glass Cannoning abilities won't be harmed at all.
    WoG should usually net 850 in Hyper mode actually.
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    Re: I hate to start a thread for this but

    Post by Rynn on Wed Jul 11, 2012 7:40 pm

    Might I recommend a change in armor?
    Poison Arrows do not need to hit in order to proc a poison charge, and so maximizing your poison defense is critical imo to not being wiped off the earth by arrows your dodged. the Painted Guardian set will mean you'd need to fail to dodge 14 arrows completely in a row.
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    Re: I hate to start a thread for this but

    Post by Forum Pirate on Wed Jul 11, 2012 7:49 pm

    Ahh, I hadn't considered the order the game did the math in for the cast modifiers. I see it now.

    Does the rof work to hide the cast animation, or would I be better with like the stamina regen ring to hide the rtsr aura or further boosting magic damage?


    The armor was just for weight, change it I will.

    You're help is greatly appreciated, caster hybrids are the 1 build type I've no experience playing.


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    Re: I hate to start a thread for this but

    Post by Rynn on Wed Jul 11, 2012 7:58 pm

    Oh, one more tip.
    Wrath of Gods + Force spells can make your homing soul mass fly off in random directions if they have not been shot off.

    The ring of fog apparently works far better on the PS3 then the X-box, I couldn't tell you how good of a job it would do at concealing. I'm unsure if the RTSR is applied before or after cloranthy, so I don't know which effect would hide which. That would require a field test.

    A final 'boost' I'd give the build is to equip two Lightning Mail Breakers, 1 for parrying and one for backstabbing.
    You will eventually run into someone that makes you run out of spells.
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    Re: I hate to start a thread for this but

    Post by Forum Pirate on Wed Jul 11, 2012 8:05 pm

    If the enemy uses them, or me?

    &lol, menu swap into the hring and hyper mode bs for a bazillion damage. You've been very helpful, thanks.


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    Re: I hate to start a thread for this but

    Post by Rynn on Wed Jul 11, 2012 8:19 pm

    You'll do a 1930 damage backstab, and 2450 damage ripostes.
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    Re: I hate to start a thread for this but

    Post by Serious_Much on Wed Jul 11, 2012 8:34 pm

    If you use Crystal catalyst with dusk crown and bellowing dragon crest ring, You can one shot quite a few people.. In 120 PvP you'd need hyper mode to do so..

    I wouldn't make yourself have to use hyper mode, if you can get a couple hits on someone (I'm sure you of all people can do that), then CSS someone you don't need to worry.


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    Re: I hate to start a thread for this but

    Post by Forum Pirate on Wed Jul 11, 2012 8:41 pm

    I want to cannon. My playstyle is trade heavy because I like big slow weapons and pyromancy, so my dodging ability is sub-par. This will give me the super high damage per hit I prefer, while forcing me to dodge well or die quickly.

    Its a training excersise, as well as my 1st faith/int hybrid.


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    Re: I hate to start a thread for this but

    Post by DamageCK on Wed Jul 11, 2012 8:46 pm

    I also think you'd do well to have Chameleon. The number of people who fall for it is ridiculous. And in hyper mode, it'll be a CSS one shot. Even if the Cham to SS doesn't work the first time, they'll probably try to rush you the next time, then you pop 'em with a wrath. There goes a thousand hp. Easy street after that.


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    Re: I hate to start a thread for this but

    Post by Serious_Much on Wed Jul 11, 2012 8:52 pm

    Okay then, if you wanna maximise damage then go for it, though you'll want light roll and chameleon as damage said...

    I think for advice on this you should check out the Assassin's of Vinheim cov and ask them, sneaky one shotting with CSS is one of the builds they use in there.


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