an idea regarding the 'disasters are gone...' message

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    an idea regarding the 'disasters are gone...' message

    Post by retro on Wed Jul 11, 2012 4:01 am

    I've had an idea regarding the message that displays whenever a Gravelord with an active Eye of Death dies:
    Disasters are gone after the defeat of the Gravelord Servant.
    I was wondering why people see this message often without seeing an actual, accompanying infection. Because the message is telling you that "disasters are gone...", it is factually incorrect because it does not always indicate the appearance/disappearance of black phantoms. This much is a guarantee and not speculation.

    So basically, I think there are two scenarios that are most likely to be the case-

    1. If the message is supposed to mean exactly what it says, this is proof that the covenant remains bugged in some capacity.

    2. The message is worded incorrectly. The covenant is not heavily-bugged with a low success rate, and changing the message to something else would make it factual.

    Unfortunately, this may be difficult to test.

    Explanation-

    1. How is this proof? Well, the message does not always accompany an actual Gravelord infection. Although I don't have video evidence for this, I had an opportunity to test this quite thoroughly once, and others can confirm this. Seeing the message appear does NOT necessarily mean that you ever had Gravelord Black Phantoms actually appear in your game.

    So if this scenario is true, seeing the message means that you were supposed to have had Gravelord Black Phantoms appear in your game, but it's likely that they didn't appear due to some bug.

    2. Before I offer an alternate message, this requires some discussion on the behavior of the Gravelord soul sign.

    The Gravelord soul sign is known to appear to other players within co-op range. What I believe isn't known is if it's supposed to appear to the only the "three" or so players who receive the infection, or a larger group of people simply within co-op range.

    I've read some explanations of the Gravelord soul sign that basically say if you see a Gravelord sign in your world, you've been infected. This is NOT true. You can see and interact with Gravelord soul signs without an infection taking place in your world. This is what raises speculation about how many people will see a given sign-- either scenario #1 is true, which also involves people seeing the sign sometimes without an infection that was supposed to take place, or the sign is supposed to appear to a larger group of people than those infected, meaning it's perfectly ok/ intented to sometimes find signs without infections.

    If the latter is true, my idea is that the Gravelord message should actually say this:
    A Gravelord servant has been defeated, and a gravelord sign has vanished from your world. Black phantoms are gone if they occurred for you.
    In other words, I'm suggesting that it's possible that the covenant & message may not be bugged, assuming that the 'disasters are gone message' is only supposed to be telling you that a servant died and a gravelord sign disappeared from your world. The message might actually mean that there was definitely a sign somewhere in your world that you could have accessed.


    Last edited by retro on Wed Jul 11, 2012 4:04 am; edited 1 time in total
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    Re: an idea regarding the 'disasters are gone...' message

    Post by retro on Wed Jul 11, 2012 4:03 am

    TLDR: The message possibly means a servant died and a sign disappeared that you would have seen if you were looking in the right place at the right time. The part about disasters (the black phantoms) disappearing is factually incorrect and not true most of the time. It's only true if you're part of the subset of players who actually received the infection.

    Has anyone known where the exact location of a Gravelord sign was supposed to be, couldn't see it, but then witnessed the message after the Gravelord confirmed dying? That would be evidence that disagrees with this idea.
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    Re: an idea regarding the 'disasters are gone...' message

    Post by DoughGuy on Wed Jul 11, 2012 4:07 am

    The GL sign is wherever the actual GL is. The sign appears to all players connected to the GLs world through the P2P connections. Howver only 3 of these worlds see the BPs. I think all the worlds see the messssage even if some dont see phantoms, but some GLs hide their sign so they dont get invaded.


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    Re: an idea regarding the 'disasters are gone...' message

    Post by retro on Wed Jul 11, 2012 4:12 am

    DoughGuy wrote:The GL sign is wherever the actual GL is. The sign appears to all players connected to the GLs world through the P2P connections. Howver only 3 of these worlds see the BPs. I think all the worlds see the messssage even if some dont see phantoms, but some GLs hide their sign so they dont get invaded.
    How is the sign appearing to all players in co-op range (on the same server, etc) known, though? More than three people have been able to confirm seeing the same sign?

    I'm assuming people have come to that conclusion because they've seen the sign without an infection (like I have), but couldn't that also just mean that they were supposed to the have the infection take place? (and a bug prevented it...)

    My idea is that maybe all worlds with signs see the message (which doesn't agree or disagree with the number of people who are or aren't supposed to see the sign). Unless we can establish that the message appears for people who are unable to see a sign as well. Because more people see signs than infections, and more people see messages than either (but also bearing in mind that signs can be easy to miss), it might make sense that the message is always accompanying a disappearing sign.

    Or scenario #1 is correct - seeing a message means you should've had the infection and a sign, but the covenant remains bugged and it only works sometimes.


    Last edited by retro on Wed Jul 11, 2012 4:17 am; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : edited for clarity)
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    Re: an idea regarding the 'disasters are gone...' message

    Post by DoughGuy on Wed Jul 11, 2012 4:18 am

    Why would only 3 worlds see infections though? I dont think its a bug preventing the BP in other worlds. i think this is how it is meant to work.


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    Re: an idea regarding the 'disasters are gone...' message

    Post by retro on Wed Jul 11, 2012 4:23 am

    DoughGuy wrote:Why would only 3 worlds see infections though? I dont think its a bug preventing the BP in other worlds. i think this is how it is meant to work.
    So you're saying you believe scenario #2 or something very similar to be more likely, then.

    This is how the covenant is meant to work, and it's only the "disasters are gone" message that is misleading or poorly worded- and my suggested replacement message is probably more true. Right?
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    Re: an idea regarding the 'disasters are gone...' message

    Post by DoughGuy on Wed Jul 11, 2012 4:26 am

    yes. Like how in 1.0 when you killed a boss it said "you defeated". it got the point across but obviously translation issues got in the way.


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    Re: an idea regarding the 'disasters are gone...' message

    Post by retro on Wed Jul 11, 2012 4:29 am

    Gotcha! Yeah I've been leaning to believe in scenario #2 myself, but it's of course very difficult to test or find evidence that will back it up or disagree. happy

    When people still talk about the covenant as if it's bugged, possibility #2 is how I would suggest that it may not be bugged and the just the message is weird.

    edit: Is there anyone on the forum who knows or can translate what the Japanese version says?
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    Re: an idea regarding the 'disasters are gone...' message

    Post by kramage on Wed Jul 11, 2012 4:35 am

    When I was GL'ing in TOTG (pre-patch) I was able to get invaded by infected ppl. I know this because when I killed them I got an eye. Now when I GL (post-patch) the problem seems to be:

    1) I am infecting but it is probably on players who have killed their bosses thus they dont get the bs. or...

    2) I am infecting but my sign is either not being displayed or its bugging out.

    However you might be right about the wording being wrong. The only time I was able to see that exact phrase "Disasters are gone after the defeat of the Gravelord" was when I was summoned into a game with actual BP's in TOTG. So I dunno. As far as level ranges go the ones I infected successfully (and those who werent sour enough to respond to me Graving them) was roughly 8% of my sl 99. But this is all from personal experience so it may differ. Btw I dont hide my sign I always put it next to a bonfire. Hiding it is pointless since its been debunked that you cannot get souls/eyes from the BP's killing the infected player for you.

    On a seperate note its good to be back. Been on hiatus due to work. Man my rep took a hit Look Skyward


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    Re: an idea regarding the 'disasters are gone...' message

    Post by Rynn on Wed Jul 11, 2012 4:46 am

    kramage wrote:Hiding it is pointless since its been debunked that you cannot get souls/eyes from the BP's killing the infected player for you.
    Which is a -serious shame-, since those that would be easy kills probably can't handle the phantoms.
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    Re: an idea regarding the 'disasters are gone...' message

    Post by WyrmHero on Wed Jul 11, 2012 4:51 am

    Hollow players and even those who have defeated their bosses can see the sign. Problem is there's a big lack of dedicated Gravelords. I'm sure that when you get the message of disasters were gone is because you were able to see the GL sign, even though you didn't get infected. It should be patched so that many players get infected at once, thus forcing players to invade the Gravelord and kill him, to get rid of the BPs enemies. Simple as that.


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    Re: an idea regarding the 'disasters are gone...' message

    Post by Bioraptor on Wed Jul 11, 2012 5:22 am

    Hi guy`s I know this is a little off topic but its still Gravelord related.

    I am not to sure about this topic although I know one thing.......
    When you get invaded at around SL300+ on NG+++++ the black phantoms hit hard.
    I manage to catch some in the undead burg one time on my phone camera.
    Notice how much the black phantom bandit takes off my health bar when I am hit by them.
    It`s around 1.30 on the film count.

    http://youtu.be/fVks7JKamlU

    Also guy`s please do not think this is to promote my vid because its not,its a 5 month old vid but I thought it would be nice to show you all a NG+++++ infected world at SL349.


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    Re: an idea regarding the 'disasters are gone...' message

    Post by Forum Pirate on Wed Jul 11, 2012 5:47 am

    If you're infected, I don't believe bps appear until you enter a new area or die, hence the message without the bps


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    Re: an idea regarding the 'disasters are gone...' message

    Post by barrywilkins on Wed Jul 11, 2012 8:24 am


    If you're infected, I don't believe bps appear until you enter a new area or die, hence the message without the bps

    id say this cant be the case due to me being killed by a bp hollow warrior as i was messaging someone i had just dueled the other night sad they can definately appear out of the blue. however, i do believe that it takes some time for the actual infection to take place. as in, while you are infected, the bps take a few minutes to spawn but, before they could spawn the gravelord got his/her face ripped off.
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    Re: an idea regarding the 'disasters are gone...' message

    Post by Shindori on Wed Jul 11, 2012 8:29 am

    I always see gravelord signs right in front of the dtsirs in the forest. <3


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    Re: an idea regarding the 'disasters are gone...' message

    Post by JustT on Wed Jul 11, 2012 10:17 am

    I've only seen the "disasters are gone…" message twice. I've never seen a sign, nor a BP. Both times a got my message I was in the middle of forest hunting, and had either just died or just won, either way, I got the message as soon as I spawned back in my own world.

    When I asked someone about it, they said it was because someone I encountered in a host's world had been infected, and it didn't actually have anything to do with me.

    I don't know how true that is. I do think it's a translation problem, because it's worded in such an awkward way. When I first saw it, I breathed a sigh of relief and thought "oh thank goodness, disasters are gone".

    I can be pretty thick sometimes, though, so…
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    Re: an idea regarding the 'disasters are gone...' message

    Post by befowler on Wed Jul 11, 2012 10:28 am

    Also I think if you put your summon sign down, you can't see GL signs even if you are infected, to prevent a network conflict or something. I've never seen BPs but have been otherwise infected a number of times, notably in the Archives when I was cooping Seath. The GL sign was right near the library bonfire, but only if I didn't have my sign down for coop. I could basically toggle the two on and off by canceling my sign, and either do coop or keep invading the GL.


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    Re: an idea regarding the 'disasters are gone...' message

    Post by retro on Wed Jul 11, 2012 3:19 pm

    kramage wrote:When I was GL'ing in TOTG (pre-patch) I was able to get invaded by infected ppl. I know this because when I killed them I got an eye.
    Ah, after messaging many players and asking if they saw BPs in their world, and the answer almost always being "no" by a longshot... I believe that getting an eye only means the enemy invaded via your Gravelord sign. It doesn't necessarily mean they were infected.

    kramage wrote:As far as level ranges go the ones I infected successfully (and those who werent sour enough to respond to me Graving them) was roughly 8% of my sl 99.
    Hmm... wonder if that changed post-patch to stay within co-op range? +/- (10 + 10%) of your level?
    It's worth noting that the souls received from killing invaders is the same as when you're the invader. In spite of actually being the host, the game treats you as being the invader when you've used an Eye of Death. I think the souls calculator should tell you their level, looking at "If you were the invader".

    I recorded the souls gained and also messaged a bunch of players- everyone fell within co-op range for me at least. If anyone finds some more numbers / levels that disagree, it'd be good to see that information shared. happy

    befowler wrote:Also I think if you put your summon sign down, you can't see GL signs even if you are infected, to prevent a network conflict or something. I've never seen BPs but have been otherwise infected a number of times, notably in the Archives when I was cooping Seath. The GL sign was right near the library bonfire, but only if I didn't have my sign down for coop. I could basically toggle the two on and off by canceling my sign, and either do coop or keep invading the GL.
    Interesting, I did not know that! That could be another reason GL signs get missed easily.
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    Re: an idea regarding the 'disasters are gone...' message

    Post by WhatDoesThePendantDo? on Wed Jul 11, 2012 3:40 pm

    I hate getting that message. I've gotten this message countless times but I've gotten Black Phantoms in my game MAYBE once!

    Give me Black Phantoms! I want Black Phantoms! lol

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    Re: an idea regarding the 'disasters are gone...' message

    Post by retro on Wed Jul 11, 2012 3:50 pm

    WhatDoesThePendantDo? wrote:Give me Black Phantoms! I want Black Phantoms! lol
    Exactly how I feel. When people complain about BPs getting 'stuck' in their game and lasting a long time, I feel like that's actually pretty cool and better than not getting to see them. A crazy number of hours into the game and I've only seen them four times. Always in other player's worlds as an invading Darkwraith, never in my own world yet.

    I've seen three vagrants and four black phantom events. I have no idea if this personal anecdote is at all appropriate for determining the rarity of BPs compared to vagrants, but it would seem that they're almost as rare.

    This is why I have hid a Gravelord sign a handful of times. There's nothing in it for me, but I can always read forums/ do whatever while I sit there with a Gravelord, hoping that someone else gets to see them and for more than just a minute.

    edit: I'd also like to add that I've decided to be a Gravelord-friendly invader. If I meet a GL by chance, using the Red or Blue Eye Orb, I'll let them win or kill myself. I'll drop eyes of death if I have them. I realize that could be kind of annoying, especially if they're waiting around for good fights, but when I see someone with an active Eye of Death, I want them to be infecting players successfully for as long as possible.


    Last edited by retro on Wed Jul 11, 2012 4:01 pm; edited 1 time in total
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    Re: an idea regarding the 'disasters are gone...' message

    Post by sinisterapathy on Wed Jul 11, 2012 3:50 pm

    Forum Pirate wrote:If you're infected, I don't believe bps appear until you enter a new area or die, hence the message without the bps

    I was hosting in the moonpit one night looking for signs...when all of the sudden BP stone knights apeared all around me...I had been there for a good 5 minutes.
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    Re: an idea regarding the 'disasters are gone...' message

    Post by retro on Wed Jul 11, 2012 3:57 pm

    sinisterapathy wrote:
    Forum Pirate wrote:If you're infected, I don't believe bps appear until you enter a new area or die, hence the message without the bps

    I was hosting in the moonpit one night looking for signs...when all of the sudden BP stone knights apeared all around me...I had been there for a good 5 minutes.
    Yeah, there are lots of reports of people seeing them appear suddenly.

    Also adding to the idea that needing to die or reload isn't what's needed, I once saw a GL sign for an extended period of time in the painted world. I took the opportunity to run around the level looking for BPs, none were found. I'd see the sign, run around to the exact locations where I know BPs exist, and run back to make sure the sign was still there. Every now and again the GL would die, and I'd see the message confirming their death, but they'd use another Eye of Death right away.

    During these periods when I could see a sign, I also tried killing myself, resting at a bonfire, and using a homeward bone. I could still see the sign upon reviving/ reloading / resting, but none of those made black phantoms appear in my game.
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    Re: an idea regarding the 'disasters are gone...' message

    Post by Rynn on Wed Jul 11, 2012 4:07 pm

    The facts just are, no matter how you look at things, the Gravelord Covenant is broken. It is related to the spawning of black phantom mobs. The ones who can see the summon sign should also see the phantoms, but often do not. The phantoms also don't de-spawn for quite a while usually when you finally get infected.
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    Re: an idea regarding the 'disasters are gone...' message

    Post by retro on Wed Jul 11, 2012 4:23 pm

    Rynn wrote:The facts just are, no matter how you look at things, the Gravelord Covenant is broken... The ones who can see the summon sign should also see the phantoms, but often do not.
    That's what's up for debate. You believe in scenario #1, then: Seeing a sign or the message means you were supposed to also see the phantoms in your world, meaning the covenant is bugged because it often doesn't work like that.

    Some believe in scenario #2, where many more people will see the message and sign without seeing phantoms. In this case it would be normal and not a bug, because the sign is 'meant' to be seen by more than just the infected.

    Unless there's more evidence to consider, the current facts present two possibilities and it's difficult to know which one is correct. That's pretty much why I made this thread- a lot of people say that's it bugged, others will claim it isn't. The reality is that neither is known for certain and it's good to understand the arguments for both sides.

    In defense of scenario #1- the patch that was meant to fix miracle resonance signs utterly failed on the PS3. We are still without miracle resonance. If that's broken even after an attempt to fix it, GL could still be partially broken.


    Last edited by retro on Wed Jul 11, 2012 4:27 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : had more I wanted to add...)
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    Re: an idea regarding the 'disasters are gone...' message

    Post by Rynn on Wed Jul 11, 2012 4:38 pm

    I believe the message is received by everyone connected to the gravelords world directly. I also believe that more then 3 individuals are intended to see the sign, and that more then 3 individuals have their world cursed.

    Consider the following.

    When you are a gravelord, unless you hide your sign, it's really easy to find. And yet, even in the kiln, which is considered a PvP hotspot, you only get 1 summon per 20 seconds. This is because there is a cooldown on invasions through the GL sign, during which your symbol vanishes. In addition, you can't see the sign if the following happens.

    • The GL is fighting 3 people
    • Your summon sign is down
    • You are hollow
    • The GL is on "cooldown" and can not be invaded again right now.


    It is my belief that as the Black Phantoms are supposed to be the bait bringing others to your world, and as such, if you can see the symbol, you should have phantoms. The message, however, is given to everyone currently connected to your session, for PvE, or PvP means.

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