What If Nobody Could

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    befowler
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    Re: What If Nobody Could

    Post by befowler on Mon Jul 09, 2012 6:02 pm

    There are still plenty of ways to one shot or stunlock people without bs/riposte (and you still have all your spells and glass mage builds etc). I don't think the existence of abusive glitchers is a reason to keep other often wacky aspects in the game as a counter; ideally they'd all be fixed. But anyone can try this, just invade/coop in Anor Londo and refuse to fight anywhere else but the stairs and see what you think.

    Sure, you may find the loss of some kinds of burst damage frustrating, but the tradeoff I like is that people usually have to actually be more skilled with their weapons and strategies to beat you, and not merely lagging or using cheap builds and exploits to OHKO lagstab you. Put another way, there are several extremely dangerous giants/MoM vit gouged lightning rapier/Hornet ring BS artists in Anor Londo that literally refuse to get on the stairs anymore if they see me there. Tells you all you need to know about how the place levels the playing field without cheap BSs.


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    Re: What If Nobody Could

    Post by Forum Pirate on Mon Jul 09, 2012 6:31 pm

    Or people with the bkga that you can't roll bs or parry could r1 spam at will and stunlock everything.
    It would also make spears and rapiers even more dangerous by removing 2 of the 3 methods of dealing with the turtles.

    I also don't find bsing cheap, ever.


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    Re: What If Nobody Could

    Post by Darkson on Mon Jul 09, 2012 7:11 pm

    Forum Pirate wrote:I'm with amos, gankes would happen even more often because it would be so much harder to deal with them.

    Amos was talking about glitching.

    And what you say there seems a bit contradicting. Isn't (chain-)backstabbing the main tacting gankers use on you likewise? I guess I would find it much easier to deal with them if there wouldn't be someone backstabbing me in addition to first getting stunned/stunlocked by another guy's greatsword or wog, if that wouldn't be enough. The likelihood of them being able to pull off a backstab scales just way too much with their quantity. And the lag.

    You're right, turtles would be a problem to deal with. But we are now talking about what if only backstabs were removed. But if they are poking with a spear or such... I never managed to parry them when they poke with their shield up. I guess I would keep the backstabs, but make them a special ability of the smaller/faster weapons, and also make the backstab window a lot smaller for enemies with light burden. Provided that the dwgr get's removed...

    But anyway, I know that "whining" about the game mechanics being weird and such most likely does not bring any use.


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    Re: What If Nobody Could

    Post by TheBigLebowski on Mon Jul 09, 2012 8:15 pm

    For me it would be more fun. Although turtle fights could go on forever. But they already can go on forever lol.
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    Re: What If Nobody Could

    Post by Serious_Much on Mon Jul 09, 2012 8:21 pm

    No BS would be Dark souls PvP heaven. It's so broken (then again parrying is also screwed up due to lag)


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    Re: What If Nobody Could

    Post by Rynn on Mon Jul 09, 2012 8:22 pm

    I think parries shouldn't be removed. Rather ripostes should be.
    The hornet ring would be changed to a 25% increase of counter damage, where the leo ring still has 50%. The two would not stack. Upon parrying a target, you could still hit R1, and take the new opening you've just created.

    Turtling would likely be rebalanced by having shields loose far more stamina per block.
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    Re: What If Nobody Could

    Post by WhatDoesThePendantDo? on Mon Jul 09, 2012 8:25 pm

    Rynn wrote:I think parries shouldn't be removed. Rather ripostes should be.
    The hornet ring would be changed to a 25% increase of counter damage, where the leo ring still has 50%. The two would not stack. Upon parrying a target, you could still hit R1, and take the new opening you've just created.

    Turtling would likely be rebalanced by having shields loose far more stamina per block.

    Then wouldn't people just parry but then riposte with a CSS or something?

    Or just get counter damage with the Leo Ring, like you said?

    Parry/Ripostes don't bother me as much as backstabs. I think they're fine, problem is that the Hornet Ring is so goddamned strong, which makes them OHKOs.

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    Re: What If Nobody Could

    Post by WyrmHero on Mon Jul 09, 2012 8:29 pm

    My fighting style doesn't depend on them. Thanks to FC I'm very skillful with no backstab combat. I'm negating myself to actually learn to roll backstab, because I hate it so much, it's one of the main reasons I lose in my duels. So my fighting style involves countering backstabs attempts, amd sometimes backstab the enemy if he is literally wide open, which is the rare case. I don't do much parry, I know how to do them but to me is just a gimmick that changes my fighting style. The one I do rarely is the roll blind parry, which is when the enemy spam roll attacks and they are the easiest to do as they are very predictable. Finally, I think most players who rely on roll backstab would leave the game.


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    Re: What If Nobody Could

    Post by Forum Pirate on Mon Jul 09, 2012 8:29 pm

    You all understand thats how fights go? I can and have been beating the hell out of my sparing partners in jujutsu, just to have them counter 1 move, leaving me winded and in an armbar wondering wtf just happened.

    Without that aspect of combat in dks, I seriously doubt I'd play.


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    Re: What If Nobody Could

    Post by WhatDoesThePendantDo? on Mon Jul 09, 2012 8:30 pm

    WyrmHero wrote:Finally, I think most players who rely on roll backstab would leave the game.

    Good Riddance?

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    Re: What If Nobody Could

    Post by TheBigLebowski on Mon Jul 09, 2012 8:32 pm

    Well, the fact that DkS has a crappy online system and there are so many people with different internet connections doesnt make it any easier too. They don't call it "lagstab" for nothing. ;D

    Just try to have fun, there is no 100% guarantee of an honest fight. Some lag, game has online issues and others have a bad connection. No matter what I always try to have fun.
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    Re: What If Nobody Could

    Post by Rynn on Mon Jul 09, 2012 8:33 pm

    Forum Pirate wrote:You all understand thats how fights go? I can and have been beating the hell out of my sparing partners in jujutsu, just to have them counter 1 move, leaving me winded and in an armbar wondering wtf just happened.

    Without that aspect of combat in dks, I seriously doubt I'd play.
    This.
    Hence why I feel parries should remain. Backstabs really make no sense in almost all situations it occurs in though.
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    Re: What If Nobody Could

    Post by WyrmHero on Mon Jul 09, 2012 8:39 pm

    I think backstabs should have a tiny hit box, so that you'll have to literally be directly facing the back of the enemy and be very close.


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    Re: What If Nobody Could

    Post by WyrmHero on Mon Jul 09, 2012 8:40 pm

    In other words roll backstab can't be done unless you land exactly at the back of the enemy, which would be so difficult to master that it's actually annoying.


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    Re: What If Nobody Could

    Post by WhatDoesThePendantDo? on Mon Jul 09, 2012 8:41 pm

    ^This.

    This you-are-able-to-backstab-someone-as-soon-as-you-are-paralleled-to-their-shield-hand is whacked out. Not even the Ninjas could pull that off.

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    Re: What If Nobody Could

    Post by Forum Pirate on Mon Jul 09, 2012 8:44 pm

    So the backstabs in demons then. Do it from steath or it won't work. Most of the time (in my experience) people didn't even try to bs because counter bsing was so easy it was a waste of time.


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    Re: What If Nobody Could

    Post by WyrmHero on Mon Jul 09, 2012 8:47 pm

    And your target has to be locked on so you can hit their vital organs. As such roll backstab would be almost impossible to execute, because you'll have to roll, unlock, lock and then hit.


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    Re: What If Nobody Could

    Post by TheBigLebowski on Mon Jul 09, 2012 8:48 pm

    I agree with Wyrmhero. Completely.
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    Re: What If Nobody Could

    Post by WyrmHero on Mon Jul 09, 2012 8:56 pm

    It would make ganker fights a lot harder though....


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    Re: What If Nobody Could

    Post by Ghadis_God on Mon Jul 09, 2012 9:02 pm

    How about backstabbing only doing the same damage as a normal attack with that weapon? Then no one would try for backstabs because it's more efficient to just attack, so backstabbing becomes a way of punishing players who hide behind shields and leave themselves open. The hornet ring would boost the damage to what it does now without the ring, wasting a ringslot to make bsing viable but not as OP as it is now with the HR. Normal riposte damage would be less than a bs does now, hornet ring would increase it slightly beyond what a bs is now.

    I don't think it would make fighting gankers harder. I fight them without relying on bs and ripostes, and the only ones who give me real trouble are the ones who bs fish.


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    Re: What If Nobody Could

    Post by WyrmHero on Mon Jul 09, 2012 9:04 pm

    Cool, I haven't tried the forest yet. I'm more of a dueling man.


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    Re: What If Nobody Could

    Post by Forum Pirate on Mon Jul 09, 2012 9:06 pm

    Yes, because thrusting my sword through your chest totally hurts just as bad as it bouncing off you're 3/4 inch plate.


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    Re: What If Nobody Could

    Post by WyrmHero on Mon Jul 09, 2012 9:11 pm

    Yeah parry damage should stay the same. I admit it's epic, risky and very rewarding.


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    Re: What If Nobody Could

    Post by Dark Souls PRO on Tue Jul 10, 2012 4:16 am

    Im with Serious_Much.
    I never backstab any way and my opponents go down quickly unless the heal <.<
    And because I'm in Australia it's pretty hard to land a decent parry because the lag varies a lot with different people even if they all com from the same country.


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    Re: What If Nobody Could

    Post by Nymfo on Tue Jul 10, 2012 12:06 pm

    wasn't until I got to Gwyn that I started to parry and backstab

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