Onto another note... which one of these builds do you think would fare better against gankers. [Also a mini-rant]

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    Rynn
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    Onto another note... which one of these builds do you think would fare better against gankers. [Also a mini-rant]

    Post by Rynn on Sun Jul 08, 2012 11:04 am

    I hate 3 weapons in this game. Just 3.

    I hate the Dragon Slayer Spear, it's got too high of a range for it's damage/abilities. You can turtle behind it, use a projectile attack, etc etc. Fortunately the stat requirements are so high, I rarely see it. This weapon is, admittedly, just hated because it kills me a lot.

    Then I hate the black knight great axe. This is an axe somewhat similar in functionality to the Hand Axe. It's an axe style weapon that has a different, faster moveset. Now, the way they balanced the handaxe was that it removes less poise per hit then the normal axes. The developers however seem to have done -nothing- to balance this weapon. It still takes 77 poise to not be stunned by a 2 handed hit (which can easily stunlock), it's 1 handed attacks hit a bit more then a 180 degree area, and it's 2 handed attacks hit -behind- the player, so you becomes difficult to backstab. Of the weapons I hate, this weapon is the easiest to fight, despite being completely overpowered, it suffers from a functionality error I'd label as "So predictable I'll blind parry with my fist".

    The last weapon I hate is the Washing Pole. I can not stress enough how... silly this weapon is. First off, the range... but secondly, it's -damage-. The washing pole is by far the most prevalent of the weapons I hate, you can find them all throughout the kiln... in the hands of every second or third darkmoon you fight. This weapon is nearly always buffed with DMB immediately, and then it can kill you in 2 hits, while having range rivaling most spears...

    You know, that actually sounds fun. I gotta admit, I'm a biased judge, if I think something is overpowered, there is usually 2 leading factors to my statement.
    1: I get killed by it a lot, generally by players I feel are genuinely less skilled then me. I don't feel this is a game where your weapon should be doing the work for you, and if I know that had I been using the same weapon, I'd beat you 9/10 times, I start questioning the legitlimacy of a weapons balance.
    2: After I get killed enough times, I start thinking about it, and I start deciding if this is just something I'm inexperienced at fighting (For example, spears and rapiers used to kill me a lot, and I didn't like the weapon class at all... but I learned how to fight them after concluding a majority of the spears and rapiers really suck, unless you're backstabbing with them.)... if I feel I can gather up too many pro's, and not enough cons, then I feel I have a viable, but most likely biased basis for calling something overpowered, and will at least privately accuse it of being such.

    So both the Dragonslayer Spear and the Washing Pole really remain to me as weapons that are overpowered, the BKGA is really quite managable compared to the two, and my only problem with dealing with it... is I've never seen it used outside the hands of gankers, and as such, they are backstabbing whores... I don't think it's actually a good weapon, it just could have used some tweaking, like the hand-axe got.

    However, both the DSP and the WP are nearly impossible to parry when used by players that have some semblance of thought outside "Spam R1" or "Backstab"... and so I've never liked them, I'd dare say they are the msot dangerous weapons in the game; and I'd like to try using the washing pole now, sort of to see for myself if doing such would help me figure out how to handle/spot openings better, and mostly just because I genuinely feel it's overpowered, and I'd like to use it on some of the jerks that keep using it on me.

    Now with all of this rant above us, I think we have enough to discuss (or generally tell me I'm wrong about.)... I'll go drop the two builds now. As you all might know, I'm a forest hunter, so both of these builds would generally be used in the forest. I can keep up with the chunk costs of a crystal weapon, don't worry about that.

    So this would be a pure damage version of the washing pole, with a WoTG backup attack for if I spawn right next to the gankers.
    http://tinyurl.com/89t7hl6
    and this would be a vitality gouged one for long-term engagement with the gankers... Flash Sweat is because Great Combustion seems to be a favored tool of gankers when you're winning, so I like reducing it's damage to around... 70.
    http://tinyurl.com/8a3l49a

    Hope you enjoy reading my threads, I think this is a long one.
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    Re: Onto another note... which one of these builds do you think would fare better against gankers. [Also a mini-rant]

    Post by WhatDoesThePendantDo? on Sun Jul 08, 2012 11:07 am

    I didn't know it was possible for anyone to hate the Washing Pole as much as I do.

    There's really no downside to using it. Sure you could say investing for 20 Strength for a katana is a little high but you really don't even have to because the WP is more effective when 2-handed.

    A pox on that weapon! :evil:

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    Re: Onto another note... which one of these builds do you think would fare better against gankers. [Also a mini-rant]

    Post by RANT on Sun Jul 08, 2012 11:14 am

    i agree with the dss that thing kills me almost every time a go up against it, the rest though are easy to parry, the washing pole can be a pain but you just need to be closer. and is it me or the dss has some weird speed that i just cannot *** parry!!! fuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu......ok i feel better now.


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    Re: Onto another note... which one of these builds do you think would fare better against gankers. [Also a mini-rant]

    Post by WyrmHero on Sun Jul 08, 2012 11:17 am

    Washing Pole has never been a problem to me, I take out a spear and I laugh maniacally while poking them from afar. The only weapon I seem to have problems against is the damn spears and halberds. The only way I can win? Turtling.


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    Re: Onto another note... which one of these builds do you think would fare better against gankers. [Also a mini-rant]

    Post by Serious_Much on Sun Jul 08, 2012 11:17 am

    I don't hate the DSS (I use it after all, albeit in the offhand), though it is a tough one to deal with. You can get in close if you're clever with your dodging though for that one.

    BKGA I hate though, it's dead angling abilities and speed for how powerful it is can be lethal in the hands of a good player, we're just fortunate most people who use it aren't too imaginative or skilled.

    Washing pole.. Just wow. it's long, and it's pretty hefty. It's a little slow I've found which can be exploited, but the length makes up for it. It's a tough customer for sure when given a buff I agree, though any weapon buffed is extremely dangerous.

    Out of the two builds, against gankers the glass cannon would be more powerful.. But only I think if you sacrifice a couple points here and there to get a slot of TWoP. I hate that spell, but not as much as guys who gank thats for sure.


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    Re: Onto another note... which one of these builds do you think would fare better against gankers. [Also a mini-rant]

    Post by zzombieboy on Sun Jul 08, 2012 11:20 am

    I usee the WP for forest gankers, but that's fair IMO. However, it's also pretty easy to blind parry, because it's almost always a roll attack that people who aren't spamming RB/1 use.

    Dragonslayer spear is my most hated weapon. I hate it. Range + lag damage is just ridiculous on that thing.


    Last edited by zzombieboy on Sun Jul 08, 2012 11:22 am; edited 1 time in total


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    Re: Onto another note... which one of these builds do you think would fare better against gankers. [Also a mini-rant]

    Post by RANT on Sun Jul 08, 2012 11:21 am

    @serious i jusr recently started using the bkga with my bk cosplay and holy crap that thing ust destroys people, the r1 has spear reach and can dead angle as good as the mura. whn you 2h you can stun lock with one hit its not even funny.


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    Re: Onto another note... which one of these builds do you think would fare better against gankers. [Also a mini-rant]

    Post by Rynn on Sun Jul 08, 2012 11:24 am

    Do you think the glass cannon edges out the Vit Gouge enough to consider using it for normal PvP as well? Do you think I gain enough Functionally from the points I dropped in STR to make up for the low Vit on the Cannon? I'm up for -minor- improvements on either. (Meaning screw with the stats, and maybe the rings, but leave the gear alone.)
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    Re: Onto another note... which one of these builds do you think would fare better against gankers. [Also a mini-rant]

    Post by Rynn on Sun Jul 08, 2012 11:26 am

    RantFromRant wrote:@serious i jusr recently started using the bkga with my bk cosplay and holy crap that thing ust destroys people, the r1 has spear reach and can dead angle as good as the mura. whn you 2h you can stun lock with one hit its not even funny.
    The day I fight a player using the BKGA who isn't either a ganker or a backstab fisher is the day I meet an opponent I truly have a 0% chance of winning again... Someone who knows what they are doing is probably invincible with that thing... But it's never happened.
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    Re: Onto another note... which one of these builds do you think would fare better against gankers. [Also a mini-rant]

    Post by WhatDoesThePendantDo? on Sun Jul 08, 2012 11:26 am

    Is it weird that I like the Butterfly Horn, but dislike the DSS? Doesn't seem like that opinion jives, guess I'm just biased...

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    Re: Onto another note... which one of these builds do you think would fare better against gankers. [Also a mini-rant]

    Post by Rynn on Sun Jul 08, 2012 11:32 am

    WhatDoesThePendantDo? wrote:Is it weird that I like the Butterfly Horn, but dislike the DSS? Doesn't seem like that opinion jives, guess I'm just biased...
    The MLBH is IMO better balanced, it has less range, less damage per hit, and attacks slower then the DSS.
    Which reminds me, if you lined up a video of the spears all attacking at the same time, on top of it's other advantages, the DSS attacks faster then the other spears too >.<.
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    Re: Onto another note... which one of these builds do you think would fare better against gankers. [Also a mini-rant]

    Post by RANT on Sun Jul 08, 2012 11:33 am

    what about this? http://tinyurl.com/763gzlq sun ring is not that good, i tested it on full giant's with ring and no ring and damage difference wasnt that noticeable(50 faith). you can switch wolf ring for rtsr once you get hit once wich will leave eiither kill you or leave you with almost no hp and trigger the ring.


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    Re: Onto another note... which one of these builds do you think would fare better against gankers. [Also a mini-rant]

    Post by RANT on Sun Jul 08, 2012 11:35 am

    WhatDoesThePendantDo? wrote:Is it weird that I like the Butterfly Horn, but dislike the DSS? Doesn't seem like that opinion jives, guess I'm just biased...

    i like the horn, looks cool and i can actually parry that thing just fine. i dont why the horn looks biger but the dss has more reach wtf?


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    Re: Onto another note... which one of these builds do you think would fare better against gankers. [Also a mini-rant]

    Post by WhatDoesThePendantDo? on Sun Jul 08, 2012 11:39 am

    I always thought the SKS was the speedster of the spears. If the DSS is the fastest spear, then I am shocked and more than a little bit angry. Isn't it among the heaviest of the spears?

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    Re: Onto another note... which one of these builds do you think would fare better against gankers. [Also a mini-rant]

    Post by Rynn on Sun Jul 08, 2012 11:40 am

    Mmmmm... I'd say yes, but I'm using the DWGR for style points on that build, rather then functionality. I'm not too sure what you just suggested would be good for me as a result... especially since the invincibility frames really help versus gankers.

    EDIT: Yes, it is the heaviest. I believe the SKS has a certain move that is faster, but you can't block while using it if I understood the video I got that information from.
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    Re: Onto another note... which one of these builds do you think would fare better against gankers. [Also a mini-rant]

    Post by reim0027 on Sun Jul 08, 2012 2:15 pm

    I hate spear in general. They are like Kryptonite to me. Their reach is huge, and their AoE is wider than they look (thanks to dome lag). I'll be rolling out of the way and still get hit when I'm not in front of them.

    WP isn't as much of a problem, but still a powerful weapon.

    BKGA isn't bad for me, unless they really know how to use it. If they go 1H, roll around until you see if they are R1 spammers. If they are, parry them into oblivion. If they aren't, then roll under the first R1 and BS them. 2H is tougher, harder to parry, but doesn't have the side-to-side sweep.

    But, spears can go to H-e "double hockey sticks", if you know what I mean. silly


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    Re: Onto another note... which one of these builds do you think would fare better against gankers. [Also a mini-rant]

    Post by sparkly-twinkly-lizard on Sun Jul 08, 2012 2:43 pm

    the WP's suposed weakness is its low durability, but almost no one attunes acid surge and its easy to dodge it is someone does use it... almost makes me wish we still had the scraping spear, actually a whip that did the duarbility loss effect would be cool...


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    Re: Onto another note... which one of these builds do you think would fare better against gankers. [Also a mini-rant]

    Post by Rynn on Sun Jul 08, 2012 4:06 pm

    http://tinyurl.com/75raxwg
    So after doing some testing, the East Wood Grain Ring reduces the rate of weapon degradation to 20%, which would give my Crystal Weapons 100 durability.
    Someone else also claimed that Crystal Weapons naturally loose durability slower, I'm not sure how much truth there is to that statement though.
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    Re: Onto another note... which one of these builds do you think would fare better against gankers. [Also a mini-rant]

    Post by Rynn on Sun Jul 08, 2012 7:11 pm

    I finally settled for this as my build.
    http://tinyurl.com/7sslajg
    I'm currently leveling it up.
    The washing pole is a fun weapon.
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    Re: Onto another note... which one of these builds do you think would fare better against gankers. [Also a mini-rant]

    Post by DamageCK on Sun Jul 08, 2012 9:20 pm

    I HATE SPEARS. Ugh. Spear+DWGR=lost cause. Fair enough, spear users. I'll still bust my *** to get a W, but it doesn't happen often.


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    Re: Onto another note... which one of these builds do you think would fare better against gankers. [Also a mini-rant]

    Post by reim0027 on Sun Jul 08, 2012 9:22 pm

    Rynn - I used crystal weapons and they deteriorate fast.


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    Re: Onto another note... which one of these builds do you think would fare better against gankers. [Also a mini-rant]

    Post by Rynn on Sun Jul 08, 2012 10:03 pm

    I'll just replace them more often, and keep a +15 in backup.
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    Re: Onto another note... which one of these builds do you think would fare better against gankers. [Also a mini-rant]

    Post by DoughGuy on Sun Jul 08, 2012 10:14 pm

    So on my main pvp toon that isnt an FH I use the DSS + DWGR, because its an ornstein cosplay, and a damn good one. Ive also fought against DSS users and I have a few tricks. Try to come in from the left or right quickly to bait the r1. You can easily roll to dodge it and get a rolll r1 hit. You also need to box them in. If they get trapped in a corner take a few hits to go to town on them. The damage is good but most weapons will outdamage it and if they cant get away you've got them.
    Hope that helps.


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    Re: Onto another note... which one of these builds do you think would fare better against gankers. [Also a mini-rant]

    Post by Rynn on Mon Jul 09, 2012 2:32 am

    DoughGuy wrote:So on my main pvp toon that isnt an FH I use the DSS + DWGR, because its an ornstein cosplay, and a damn good one. Ive also fought against DSS users and I have a few tricks. Try to come in from the left or right quickly to bait the r1. You can easily roll to dodge it and get a rolll r1 hit. You also need to box them in. If they get trapped in a corner take a few hits to go to town on them. The damage is good but most weapons will outdamage it and if they cant get away you've got them.
    Hope that helps.
    ...
    So hope they pin themself in a corner, or play a whittling game you're likely to loose, of trying to roll into their attacks... and getting whacked by a leo ring hit.

    Okay.
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    Re: Onto another note... which one of these builds do you think would fare better against gankers. [Also a mini-rant]

    Post by DoughGuy on Mon Jul 09, 2012 2:39 am

    Im just telling you what works for me.


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