Should I make this? and DWGR discussion...

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    mugenis4real
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    Should I make this? and DWGR discussion...

    Post by mugenis4real on Sun Jul 01, 2012 1:11 am

    EDIT: Grammar Error :drunken:

    http://mugenmonkey.com/darksouls/?c=1571290103344833

    Seriously I know we have constant threads about this is "OP" or no that's "OP" but the DWGR has merit in these lines of discussion. I finished making this thing on MugenMonkey and the realization that I was wearing super heavy armor, carrying a great-shield (not even the Eagle, heavier), and a heavy weapon, and me still being able to fast roll is ridiculous. Reading the item descriptions is almost a little sad 🇳🇴

    Tower Shield:
    This plate of iron is heavily defensive but ultra heavy. Greatshields are very stable, and deflect attacks. However, one cannot parry, and instead bashes with the shield."

    Great Club:
    Giant tree branch serves as a wooden club. Smashes enemies from upside the head."

    etc. thoughts?






    Last edited by mugenis4real on Sun Jul 01, 2012 1:22 am; edited 2 times in total
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    Re: Should I make this? and DWGR discussion...

    Post by DoughGuy on Sun Jul 01, 2012 1:17 am

    mugenis4real wrote:http://mugenmonkey.com/darksouls/?c=1571290103344833

    Seriously I know we have constant threads about this is "OP" or no that's "OP" but the DWGR has merit in these line of discussion. I finished making this thing on MugenMonkey and the realization that I was wearing super heavy armor, carrying a great-shield (not even the Eagle, heavier), and a heavy weapon, and me still being able to fast roll is ridiculous. Reading the item descriptions is almost a little sad 🇳🇴

    Tower Shield:

    This this plate of iron is heavily defensive but ultra heavy. Greatshields are very stable, and deflect attacks. However, one cannot parry, and instead bashes with the shield."

    Great Club:

    Giant tree branch serves as a wooden club. Smashes enemies from upside the head."

    etc.


    At least you realised it at last. Why the 2 pyro fists?
    Honestly no offence but all your builds seem very similar. Why not branch out and try something else?


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    Re: Should I make this? and DWGR discussion...

    Post by swordiris on Sun Jul 01, 2012 1:22 am

    The DWGR only makes you fast roll if you have under 50% equip load.

    Either your endurance is super godly, or you have mask of the father with Havel ring or something increasing your load.


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    Re: Should I make this? and DWGR discussion...

    Post by mugenis4real on Sun Jul 01, 2012 1:27 am

    I have the two Pyro Gloves because I'm OCD about having all my slots filled lol

    I realize that my endurance is huge on this build but i shouldn't be able to do as much damage as I'm doing with this much Vit/Poise. But then again maybe I'm wrong...maybe From intended this for tank builds? 😕

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    Re: Should I make this? and DWGR discussion...

    Post by DoughGuy on Sun Jul 01, 2012 1:30 am

    I dont think FROM realised people would combine Havel ring, MoF and DWGR to make flipping tanks.


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    Re: Should I make this? and DWGR discussion...

    Post by sparkly-twinkly-lizard on Sun Jul 01, 2012 1:48 am

    this is why the masks should have a negative effect along with their positive one, that or have certain ring combos produce negative effects and others(not havel, fap or dwgr) produce minor positive effects in addition to the ring effect, like evil eye and dusk crown ring would give you a spell cast for every kill etc.


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    Re: Should I make this? and DWGR discussion...

    Post by Reaperfan on Sun Jul 01, 2012 2:01 am

    sparkly-twinkly-lizard wrote:this is why the masks should have a negative effect along with their positive one, that or have certain ring combos produce negative effects and others(not havel, fap or dwgr) produce minor positive effects in addition to the ring effect, like evil eye and dusk crown ring would give you a spell cast for every kill etc.

    The downside to the masks is that they offer little defense, they don't need debuffs. I still say the simplist solution to the problem would be putting a negative effect on the DWGR itself as opposed to the masks, and the combination thing sounds like a programming nightmare. If they would just make the DWGR cut poise in half when you wear it I think all these problems would go away.


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    Re: Should I make this? and DWGR discussion...

    Post by DoughGuy on Sun Jul 01, 2012 2:03 am

    Reaperfan wrote:
    sparkly-twinkly-lizard wrote:this is why the masks should have a negative effect along with their positive one, that or have certain ring combos produce negative effects and others(not havel, fap or dwgr) produce minor positive effects in addition to the ring effect, like evil eye and dusk crown ring would give you a spell cast for every kill etc.

    The downside to the masks is that they offer little defense, they don't need debuffs. I still say the simplist solution to the problem would be putting a negative effect on the DWGR itself as opposed to the masks, and the combination thing sounds like a programming nightmare. If they would just make the DWGR cut poise in half when you wear it I think all these problems would go away.
    The fact that the masks offer little defence is not much of a debuf. As they are mostly worn by people who have enough defence already a helmmet does little normally due to diminishing returns.


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    Re: Should I make this? and DWGR discussion...

    Post by mugenis4real on Sun Jul 01, 2012 2:09 am

    Good point, if I really had wanted to maximize this build then I would have put on MotM, bumped my health to 2k+ and thrown on Havel's armor and kept my poise at the same, if not higher.

    Edit: I would still be Ninja Flipping like I was wearing nothing but a T-shirt as well. Rynn I like your a solution a ton, shame that we would never be able to gather a force to make From change such a popular item.
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    Re: Should I make this? and DWGR discussion...

    Post by Federally on Sun Jul 01, 2012 2:12 am

    Reaperfan wrote:
    sparkly-twinkly-lizard wrote:this is why the masks should have a negative effect along with their positive one, that or have certain ring combos produce negative effects and others(not havel, fap or dwgr) produce minor positive effects in addition to the ring effect, like evil eye and dusk crown ring would give you a spell cast for every kill etc.

    The downside to the masks is that they offer little defense, they don't need debuffs. I still say the simplist solution to the problem would be putting a negative effect on the DWGR itself as opposed to the masks, and the combination thing sounds like a programming nightmare. If they would just make the DWGR cut poise in half when you wear it I think all these problems would go away.

    That's not a bad idea. Though o believe the real culprit is the BS mechanic. If BS wasn't the crushing attack it is then a legit tank build would be feasible. As it is if you're not incredibly maneuverable you're dead. If you nerf the DWGR then everyone will switch to fast rollers with big swords to stun lock everyone to death since they can't have poise and be maneuverable anymore. If BS wasn't the broken absurdity it is people would actually be willing to not flip.


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    Re: Should I make this? and DWGR discussion...

    Post by La0bouchere on Sun Jul 01, 2012 2:16 am

    The build is bad. Tower shield is unnecessary. Rolling in DkS is enough to evade everything properly, so any strengths a greatshield might offer are pointless. Parrying is also very important.

    91 poise is also unnecessary. 76 poise is enough to evade all stunlocks in PvP that have a chance at landing.

    Go with a closer-to-standard strength build.

    also,

    Feel free to use DWGR. Its not a massive crutch by any means (though rolling in general, especially DWGR is OP, especially compared to dodging in other games) and you'll only gimp yourself by not using it as everyone else does.

    this is why the masks should have a negative effect along with their positive one, that or have certain ring combos produce negative effects and others(not havel, fap or dwgr) produce minor positive effects in addition to the ring effect, like evil eye and dusk crown ring would give you a spell cast for every kill etc.

    Masks are fine. Simply being better than every other object of the same type doesn't automatically warrant a nerf.

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    Re: Should I make this? and DWGR discussion...

    Post by mugenis4real on Sun Jul 01, 2012 2:23 am

    The original idea of the build wasn't to to Fast Roll. The shield was there to protect what I thought would be a slow moving character, turned out that just by equipping DWGR I was able to get fast roll. That's actually why I made this thread, I didn't think it was possible to have so much equipped and still fast roll :o

    91 poise just sort of happened, I liked the way the armor setup looked ❤

    Also I suck at parrying silly
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    Re: Should I make this? and DWGR discussion...

    Post by swordiris on Sun Jul 01, 2012 2:58 am

    Honestly I think DWGR should be nerfed (although I use it so I guess I'm a hypocrite)

    The invincibility seems a little OP. I'd still use without it though


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    Re: Should I make this? and DWGR discussion...

    Post by Ghadis_God on Sun Jul 01, 2012 3:50 am

    It is a bit OP, but maneuverability in this game is stupidly done in general. If 75% was the cutoff for mid roll and the cutoff for fast roll was something like 35% then it would be more balanced, you could leave out the DWGR and make both tanks and lighter characters viable. The items in the game that help your load really only help you get past a system that's too demanding in the first place.

    I use the DWGR, but I've never made a flipping tank build. My forest Hunter at SL 175 has 65 endurance with the ring because I need to be exceptional in every area to fight the gank. I need good defense, offense, and movement, so I wear enough armor to meet poise and carry plenty of weapons, and my DM uses it because being maneuverable is incredibly important to that build, as I use the Halberd, which gets destroyed in PvP if I'm not quick on my feet.


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    Re: Should I make this? and DWGR discussion...

    Post by sparkly-twinkly-lizard on Sun Jul 01, 2012 4:00 am

    Masks are fine. Simply being better than every other object of the same type doesn't automatically warrant a nerf.

    point taken but at the very least the other helms should get a buff then, 5 more points of defense or a few more poise would be all thats nessecary, oh wait what if the masks had bad durability? maybe that would be a decent balance... ?


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    Re: Should I make this? and DWGR discussion...

    Post by Federally on Sun Jul 01, 2012 4:04 am

    sparkly-twinkly-lizard wrote:
    Masks are fine. Simply being better than every other object of the same type doesn't automatically warrant a nerf.

    point taken but at the very least the other helms should get a buff then, 5 more points of defense or a few more poise would be all thats nessecary, oh wait what if the masks had bad durability? maybe that would be a decent balance... ?

    Just make the affect not stack. Then we have flexibility of deciding which slots give us bonuses without stacking them all on top of each other and going overboard.


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    Re: Should I make this? and DWGR discussion...

    Post by swordiris on Sun Jul 01, 2012 5:00 am

    Maybe BS should be nerfed, might solve some problems.


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    Re: Should I make this? and DWGR discussion...

    Post by Federally on Sun Jul 01, 2012 5:05 am

    swordiris wrote:Maybe BS should be nerfed, might solve some problems.

    It sure in the hell would make fights longer and more fun.


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    Re: Should I make this? and DWGR discussion...

    Post by sparkly-twinkly-lizard on Sun Jul 01, 2012 5:25 am

    btw, for some reason my spears seem to do less bs damage than other weapons that are equivalent like the estoc (they have the same listed 100 critical), any idea why this is?


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    Re: Should I make this? and DWGR discussion...

    Post by Federally on Sun Jul 01, 2012 6:16 am

    sparkly-twinkly-lizard wrote:btw, for some reason my spears seem to do less bs damage than other weapons that are equivalent like the estoc (they have the same listed 100 critical), any idea why this is?

    Spears are generally low AR weapons. Less damage across the board.


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    Re: Should I make this? and DWGR discussion...

    Post by DoughGuy on Sun Jul 01, 2012 7:22 am

    To me it seems the DeS BS mechanic was beatiful, a much smaller hitbox and servers. If they dont go back it next game it'll be hard for me to ever go into pvp I think. I'm already getting frustrated at the number of people just BSing these days. In fact the forest is one of my favourite areas, simply because I know Im going to be BSed, so I expect it, and simply BS them first.

    Spears have lower damage to compensate for their reach, which will allow you to get more hits in.

    I like Fed's not stacking idea. It would be one of the best, althogh I still think the DWGR needs a nerf.


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    Re: Should I make this? and DWGR discussion...

    Post by dancash1808 on Sun Jul 01, 2012 7:31 am

    Personally I think helmets should be far more important defensively than they are and then masks should not provide that benefit. because if you get smacked in the head hard. its likely to be a hell of alot worse than if you get smacked in the torso hard.


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    Re: Should I make this? and DWGR discussion...

    Post by lextune on Sun Jul 01, 2012 1:21 pm

    Reaperfan wrote:If they would just make the DWGR cut poise in half when you wear it I think all these problems would go away.

    ^This, and the idea of wearing a shield on your back negating back stabs, are the two best ideas for "fixing" the game.


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    Re: Should I make this? and DWGR discussion...

    Post by FruitPunchNinja on Sun Jul 01, 2012 1:33 pm

    I just think they should not allow people wearing medium/heavy armor to use dwgr.If you were wearing it with medium/heavy armor you would just medium roll(or roll relative to your equip weight). Seems like an ultra simple solution, and wouldnt do anything to the balance of the game in my opinion.

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    Re: Should I make this? and DWGR discussion...

    Post by Hahalo on Sun Jul 01, 2012 1:55 pm

    What I think is wrong:

    1) After rolling Backstab should have a 0.5sec delay. Which makes more sense.

    2) If backstab is removed. It's quite boring. Honestly, pitch 2 of the best RBS and counter players together.. is boring. The backstab element needs to be there to create a tense environment, where there is no room for mistake.

    3) Everyone wearing heavy armor and flipping around.. Game issue & Community partly. Game because you can level until 700++ level and still have ways to pvp with lower level players..

    Community because majority of players just love LVL120, because that's the highest ratio of pvp action? Not really, it's because that's when most build damage, vit, endurance, and spells slots are optimized/covered.

    4) Solution for DWGR? Split the damn ring into 2 different ring.

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