Souls Series Wiki Forums

Would you like to react to this message? Create an account in a few clicks or log in to continue.

+8
retention_sb
ChizFreak
Shakie666
Toastfacekillah
Scudman_Slayer
RANT
Carphil
Back Lot Basher
12 posters

    Don't weapon buffs have a huge downside?

    Back Lot Basher
    Back Lot Basher
    Caffeinated
    Caffeinated


    Posts : 984
    Reputation : 34
    Join date : 2012-01-18
    Location : Canada

    Don't weapon buffs have a huge downside? Empty Don't weapon buffs have a huge downside?

    Post by Back Lot Basher Thu Feb 02, 2012 5:32 pm

    Most people in PvP are pretty mobile. It's not hard to evade someone with a weapon buff until it runs out. Doesn't this end up being a huge handicap if you like to use buffs? Or do people who buff just go for the throat right away and hope they get the jump?
    Carphil
    Carphil
    Chat Moderator


    Posts : 4921
    Reputation : 90
    Join date : 2012-01-17
    Age : 28
    Location : Brazil

    Don't weapon buffs have a huge downside? Empty Re: Don't weapon buffs have a huge downside?

    Post by Carphil Thu Feb 02, 2012 5:58 pm

    It's not hard to evade someone with a weapon buff until it runs out.

    What is the diference between evading someone with buff and without buff?
    Back Lot Basher
    Back Lot Basher
    Caffeinated
    Caffeinated


    Posts : 984
    Reputation : 34
    Join date : 2012-01-18
    Location : Canada

    Don't weapon buffs have a huge downside? Empty Re: Don't weapon buffs have a huge downside?

    Post by Back Lot Basher Thu Feb 02, 2012 6:00 pm

    Carphil wrote:
    It's not hard to evade someone with a weapon buff until it runs out.

    What is the diference between evading someone with buff and without buff?

    I just mean that if you can evade someone who has buffed their weapon, and it runs out, they won't have as much attack power. Darkmoon blade only gets one use, so if the enemy doesn't take you out fast, their opportunity is gone.
    Carphil
    Carphil
    Chat Moderator


    Posts : 4921
    Reputation : 90
    Join date : 2012-01-17
    Age : 28
    Location : Brazil

    Don't weapon buffs have a huge downside? Empty Re: Don't weapon buffs have a huge downside?

    Post by Carphil Thu Feb 02, 2012 6:05 pm

    Yes but you can still kill without buffs. Scaling will be aways better than anything else, buffed or not. So when you buff, you have a 60/40 chance to win. When the buff wears off, you have 50/50 to win.
    RANT
    RANT
    Tyler Durden
    Tyler Durden


    Posts : 7779
    Reputation : 268
    Join date : 2012-01-17
    Location : Winterfell

    Don't weapon buffs have a huge downside? Empty Re: Don't weapon buffs have a huge downside?

    Post by RANT Thu Feb 02, 2012 6:27 pm

    and you still have the spells from either faith or int like wog or hcss. i have slb and wog attuned on my str/fai toon but i never use them.
    Scudman_Slayer
    Scudman_Slayer
    Obsessed
    Obsessed


    Posts : 595
    Reputation : 4
    Join date : 2012-01-17
    Age : 32
    Location : you'd like to know that wouldn't you?

    Don't weapon buffs have a huge downside? Empty Re: Don't weapon buffs have a huge downside?

    Post by Scudman_Slayer Thu Feb 02, 2012 7:21 pm

    don't forget the fact that lag gets mixed in it and you end up getting hit out of the nowhere when the guy wasn't even close to you
    Toastfacekillah
    Toastfacekillah
    Addicted
    Addicted


    Posts : 173
    Reputation : 5
    Join date : 2012-01-17
    Location : Sydney, Australia

    Don't weapon buffs have a huge downside? Empty Re: Don't weapon buffs have a huge downside?

    Post by Toastfacekillah Thu Feb 02, 2012 7:32 pm

    Carphil wrote:Scaling will be aways better than anything else, buffed or not.

    See, this is what I don't get. My +15 unbuffed iaito (A dex scaling) never does as much damage as my +5 Chaos (+10 humanity) Iaito at 45 dex.
    Carphil
    Carphil
    Chat Moderator


    Posts : 4921
    Reputation : 90
    Join date : 2012-01-17
    Age : 28
    Location : Brazil

    Don't weapon buffs have a huge downside? Empty Re: Don't weapon buffs have a huge downside?

    Post by Carphil Thu Feb 02, 2012 7:34 pm

    Toastfacekillah wrote:
    Carphil wrote:Scaling will be aways better than anything else, buffed or not.

    See, this is what I don't get. My +15 unbuffed iaito (A dex scaling) never does as much damage as my +5 Chaos (+10 humanity) Iaito at 45 dex.

    Because of the humanity, chaos is an exception. The rest, all elementals, will do less damage. I mean, there is a thread about this, or just ask the guru.
    Shakie666
    Shakie666
    Obsessed
    Obsessed


    Posts : 445
    Reputation : 12
    Join date : 2012-01-24
    Location : Nowhere you've heard of.

    Don't weapon buffs have a huge downside? Empty Re: Don't weapon buffs have a huge downside?

    Post by Shakie666 Thu Feb 02, 2012 8:13 pm

    Err... i don't know about you, but my elemental weapons (including chaos) all do more damage than any of my weapons that rely on stat scaling. My highest level toon is sl202, and the most powerful stat scaling weapon i have on that is a Divine greataxe +10 which does 752 damage one handed with 50 str, 40 dex + 50 faith. A lightning greataxe +5 does 777 damage. Plus most enemies have far higher resistance to magic damage than lightning... can you see where i'm going with this?

    Also, Carphil, could you point me to that thread you mentioned? I would like to read it.


    Last edited by Shakie666 on Thu Feb 02, 2012 8:25 pm; edited 1 time in total
    ChizFreak
    ChizFreak
    Revived
    Revived


    Posts : 2388
    Reputation : 135
    Join date : 2012-01-17
    Location : Eye of Terror

    Don't weapon buffs have a huge downside? Empty Re: Don't weapon buffs have a huge downside?

    Post by ChizFreak Thu Feb 02, 2012 8:16 pm

    Most people carry a backup elemental weapon to use when their buffs fades off.
    Carphil
    Carphil
    Chat Moderator


    Posts : 4921
    Reputation : 90
    Join date : 2012-01-17
    Age : 28
    Location : Brazil

    Don't weapon buffs have a huge downside? Empty Re: Don't weapon buffs have a huge downside?

    Post by Carphil Thu Feb 02, 2012 8:27 pm

    This is really true? ALL my scaling weapons without buffs does more damage than elementals at higher levels. Chaos, divine and enchanted are exceptions because they have something called: SCALING. Chaos scales with humanity. Divine with faith and enchanted with magic. I'm talking about fire and lightning.
    retention_sb
    retention_sb
    Newbie
    Newbie


    Posts : 20
    Reputation : 0
    Join date : 2012-01-17

    Don't weapon buffs have a huge downside? Empty Re: Don't weapon buffs have a huge downside?

    Post by retention_sb Thu Feb 02, 2012 8:29 pm

    Toastfacekillah wrote:
    Carphil wrote:Scaling will be aways better than anything else, buffed or not.

    See, this is what I don't get. My +15 unbuffed iaito (A dex scaling) never does as much damage as my +5 Chaos (+10 humanity) Iaito at 45 dex.

    pine resin? no one ever uses it eventhough it provides an advantage without needing fith/int. what could be better than a bleed weapon with rotten pine resin.
    Serious_Much
    Serious_Much
    Moderator Trainee
    Moderator Trainee


    Posts : 14641
    Reputation : 287
    Join date : 2012-01-17
    Age : 31
    Location : The Dark Side of the Moon

    Don't weapon buffs have a huge downside? Empty Re: Don't weapon buffs have a huge downside?

    Post by Serious_Much Thu Feb 02, 2012 8:32 pm

    Car can you give me the thread where it says this in detail?

    Though I agree, never understood the rage about fire/lightning weapons, I always have either divine/occult if im faith or Chaos for any other build as backup..

    I find elemental underwhelming in my view though
    Toastfacekillah
    Toastfacekillah
    Addicted
    Addicted


    Posts : 173
    Reputation : 5
    Join date : 2012-01-17
    Location : Sydney, Australia

    Don't weapon buffs have a huge downside? Empty Re: Don't weapon buffs have a huge downside?

    Post by Toastfacekillah Thu Feb 02, 2012 8:34 pm

    retention_sb wrote:pine resin? no one ever uses it eventhough it provides an advantage without needing fith/int. what could be better than a bleed weapon with rotten pine resin.

    As with the OP, most people just avoid you until it wears off. Poison isn't worth it as its effects are so weak - If it wasn't for the bar on the screen, I wouldn't even notice if someone poisoned me.
    Carphil
    Carphil
    Chat Moderator


    Posts : 4921
    Reputation : 90
    Join date : 2012-01-17
    Age : 28
    Location : Brazil

    Don't weapon buffs have a huge downside? Empty Re: Don't weapon buffs have a huge downside?

    Post by Carphil Thu Feb 02, 2012 8:35 pm

    I cant find the link, it was a Blaine thread! Maybe is in the old forums, but I do remember something about this. Gonna search all Blaine's threads
    strangejoy
    strangejoy
    Obsessed
    Obsessed


    Posts : 557
    Reputation : 43
    Join date : 2012-01-17

    Don't weapon buffs have a huge downside? Empty Re: Don't weapon buffs have a huge downside?

    Post by strangejoy Thu Feb 02, 2012 8:36 pm

    I think the real disadvantage is that it takes a long time to apply a buff (the buff animation is really long). Some people will allow you to buff, and some won't.
    retention_sb
    retention_sb
    Newbie
    Newbie


    Posts : 20
    Reputation : 0
    Join date : 2012-01-17

    Don't weapon buffs have a huge downside? Empty Re: Don't weapon buffs have a huge downside?

    Post by retention_sb Thu Feb 02, 2012 8:39 pm

    As with the OP, most people just avoid you until it wears off. Poison isn't worth it as its effects are so weak - If it wasn't for the bar on the screen, I wouldn't even notice if someone poisoned me.[/quote]

    i was never implying that pine resins would not be avoided, i was just simply stating that pine resins can be largely stacked and puts you on middle ground with the people that chose other upgrade paths.
    ChizFreak
    ChizFreak
    Revived
    Revived


    Posts : 2388
    Reputation : 135
    Join date : 2012-01-17
    Location : Eye of Terror

    Don't weapon buffs have a huge downside? Empty Re: Don't weapon buffs have a huge downside?

    Post by ChizFreak Thu Feb 02, 2012 9:14 pm

    Carphil wrote:This is really true? ALL my scaling weapons without buffs does more damage than elementals at higher levels. Chaos, divine and enchanted are exceptions because they have something called: SCALING. Chaos scales with humanity. Divine with faith and enchanted with magic. I'm talking about fire and lightning.

    I used a Great Club +15, which does 650 pure phys damage, and when buffed does 905 damage, when the buffs fades off I switch to my Chaos Great Axe +5 which does 792 damage. But sometimes it's better to use the Great Club even unbuffed because no one has more than 450 phys defense, so it's 200 damage assured.
    Serious_Much
    Serious_Much
    Moderator Trainee
    Moderator Trainee


    Posts : 14641
    Reputation : 287
    Join date : 2012-01-17
    Age : 31
    Location : The Dark Side of the Moon

    Don't weapon buffs have a huge downside? Empty Re: Don't weapon buffs have a huge downside?

    Post by Serious_Much Thu Feb 02, 2012 9:22 pm

    chiz did he not say that divine, occult and chaos would all outdamage normal +15 without buff because of their scaling?
    RANT
    RANT
    Tyler Durden
    Tyler Durden


    Posts : 7779
    Reputation : 268
    Join date : 2012-01-17
    Location : Winterfell

    Don't weapon buffs have a huge downside? Empty Re: Don't weapon buffs have a huge downside?

    Post by RANT Thu Feb 02, 2012 9:29 pm

    ChizFreak wrote:
    Carphil wrote:This is really true? ALL my scaling weapons without buffs does more damage than elementals at higher levels. Chaos, divine and enchanted are exceptions because they have something called: SCALING. Chaos scales with humanity. Divine with faith and enchanted with magic. I'm talking about fire and lightning.

    I used a Great Club +15, which does 650 pure phys damage, and when buffed does 905 damage, when the buffs fades off I switch to my Chaos Great Axe +5 which does 792 damage. But sometimes it's better to use the Great Club even unbuffed because no one has more than 450 phys defense, so it's 200 damage assured.

    great club is pretty awesome, specially when buffed. what did you tested on? 40 str?
    reim0027
    reim0027
    Moderator
    Moderator


    Posts : 6715
    Reputation : 381
    Join date : 2012-01-28

    Don't weapon buffs have a huge downside? Empty Re: Don't weapon buffs have a huge downside?

    Post by reim0027 Thu Feb 02, 2012 11:09 pm

    Elemental weapons aren't as strong as +15 (for the most part). That is because of split damage reduction. You have 2 different defenses that lower the actual AR for elemental weapons. You can't go by the AR shown on the menu, because it doesn't take into account your opponent's defenses.

    Try an experiment. Go to the Forest and attack the mage. Look at the damage output with a lightning weapon, and compare it to the exact same weapon, but at +15 (if you have both of them). The +15 will win (in most cases).

    So, now you have a +15 weapon that is stronger and can be buffed (making it even better). The main advantage of an elemental is the lack of scaling means you can devote stats elsewhere (namely vitality).

    EDIT: about people letting you buff, I find most will let you buff - if you buff before you bow. Once you bow, many people consider the fight to have started and will attack you if you buff.
    Blazefury
    Blazefury
    Addicted
    Addicted


    Posts : 139
    Reputation : 1
    Join date : 2012-01-23
    Age : 38
    Location : Brazil

    Don't weapon buffs have a huge downside? Empty Re: Don't weapon buffs have a huge downside?

    Post by Blazefury Thu Feb 02, 2012 11:14 pm

    Fought a couple fellas using the Sunlight Blade buff, half of them didnt evade me. They RAN away. "Unfortunately", I had to switch to the BKGA.

    Sponsored content


    Don't weapon buffs have a huge downside? Empty Re: Don't weapon buffs have a huge downside?

    Post by Sponsored content


      Current date/time is Thu Mar 28, 2024 6:30 pm