Limiting Build and Player Creativity?

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    martyrsbrigade99
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    Re: Limiting Build and Player Creativity?

    Post by martyrsbrigade99 on Sat Jun 30, 2012 6:08 pm

    omega Elf wrote:why limit hornet ring bs's in 1v1 matches

    Unless you are using a dagger, this is my personal preference with an arranged match. Other people have their own preferences such as no Twop, no poise, not full giants, etc. I don't care about anything else. Now, if it's a random invasion, who cares? But in an arranged match, I prefer not to have hornet rings. You'll be too motivated to BS fish.
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    Re: Limiting Build and Player Creativity?

    Post by martyrsbrigade99 on Sat Jun 30, 2012 6:10 pm

    zzombieboy wrote:Nice video. You presented your arguments well and you don't have unrealistic expectations about peoples responses.

    Personally I agree with everything with you say in the video, except 1 thing; somewhat predictable a grievance, but casting TWoP and then a 1-shot spell (in most circumstances). I don't think this is creative, and this is actually worse than casting TWoP and then running in for a hornet backstab imo because you are not giving the player a chance to counter your tactic as you are firing safely from a distance, without restricted mobility if they decide to shoot a spell at you. There are couple of more creative ways that I can think of to avoid having all your spells dodged if you are a focused caster.

    This is not always the case. In fact, if you are using the crest shield, which I do largely because of the strength of spells, then you won't take a lot of damage at all.
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    Re: Limiting Build and Player Creativity?

    Post by martyrsbrigade99 on Sat Jun 30, 2012 6:12 pm

    barecanvas wrote:deleted

    Was that really necessary?

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    Re: Limiting Build and Player Creativity?

    Post by Spurgun on Sat Jun 30, 2012 6:15 pm

    martyrsbrigade99 wrote:
    zzombieboy wrote:Nice video. You presented your arguments well and you don't have unrealistic expectations about peoples responses.

    Personally I agree with everything with you say in the video, except 1 thing; somewhat predictable a grievance, but casting TWoP and then a 1-shot spell (in most circumstances). I don't think this is creative, and this is actually worse than casting TWoP and then running in for a hornet backstab imo because you are not giving the player a chance to counter your tactic as you are firing safely from a distance, without restricted mobility if they decide to shoot a spell at you. There are couple of more creative ways that I can think of to avoid having all your spells dodged if you are a focused caster.

    This is not always the case. In fact, if you are using the crest shield, which I do largely because of the strength of spells, then you won't take a lot of damage at all.

    And you can BS them while they’re casting it. OR just run away untill it wears out. TWoP isn’t as OP as people say it is.
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    Re: Limiting Build and Player Creativity?

    Post by bloodpixel on Sat Jun 30, 2012 6:24 pm

    barecanvas wrote:deleted
    Someone's mad.


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    Re: Limiting Build and Player Creativity?

    Post by dancash1808 on Sat Jun 30, 2012 7:24 pm

    barecanvas I think you should calm down now, you were standoffish from the start and when called out on it you have become outright offensive. no need for that.

    as for the crest shield vs crystal soul spear I dont know how much you watch vids from other people on the forum's but
    thats some pretty heavy damage through crest and full havels...


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    Re: Limiting Build and Player Creativity?

    Post by DamageCK on Sat Jun 30, 2012 7:37 pm

    A CSS is going to do massive damage under pretty much all circumstances, unless it's blocked by Havel's shield or maybe GSoA.


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    Re: Limiting Build and Player Creativity?

    Post by martyrsbrigade99 on Sat Jun 30, 2012 7:44 pm

    dancash1808 wrote:barecanvas I think you should calm down now, you were standoffish from the start and when called out on it you have become outright offensive. no need for that.

    as for the crest shield vs crystal soul spear I dont know how much you watch vids from other people on the forum's but
    thats some pretty heavy damage through crest and full havels...

    Okay, I appreciate the reference, but, let's just be honest: MOST people are not using the red tearstone ring enabled. You are trying to prove your case by using an extreme example that is not representative. Also, he was hiding from them and caught them off guard. In the montage and the "first impressions" videos that I uploaded in which I cast TWOP, I cast it right in front of them and give them an opportunity to BS me while I'm casting.
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    Re: Limiting Build and Player Creativity?

    Post by Carphil on Sat Jun 30, 2012 7:49 pm

    @Dan the guy in full havels had the kite shield, and the guy with crest shield was not blocking.


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    Re: Limiting Build and Player Creativity?

    Post by dancash1808 on Sat Jun 30, 2012 7:52 pm

    True, very few people will run the red tearstone ring however power within could substitute for only a 10% drop in power. however that would then require inventory switching or a sub optimal setup to work with the TWoP strategy which you use.
    Yes catching them off guard was key to him hitting. the only other time that spell seems to work is if you catch people on a bridge (without TWoP)
    It is not often a 1HKO but it is very powerful and I do not know what it is but there is no way crest always blocks 80%

    Love how many different strategies there are in this game.

    EDIT: Oh crap so he is. now I feel incredibly foolish.... :pale:
    sorry for the incorrect information!


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    Re: Limiting Build and Player Creativity?

    Post by zzombieboy on Sat Jun 30, 2012 8:18 pm

    dancash1808 wrote:True, very few people will run the red tearstone ring however power within could substitute for only a 10% drop in power. however that would then require inventory switching or a sub optimal setup to work with the TWoP strategy which you use.
    Yes catching them off guard was key to him hitting. the only other time that spell seems to work is if you catch people on a bridge (without TWoP)
    It is not often a 1HKO but it is very powerful and I do not know what it is but there is no way crest always blocks 80%

    Love how many different strategies there are in this game.

    EDIT: Oh crap so he is. now I feel incredibly foolish.... :pale:
    sorry for the incorrect information!

    Parrying then hitting them in the face with it is also very successful. Plus more damage because they are staggered.


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    Re: Limiting Build and Player Creativity?

    Post by dancash1808 on Sat Jun 30, 2012 8:22 pm

    does it have enough time with parry stun? that could really rejuvinate the battle mage idea. do you have time to swap to catalyst or does it need to be in your right hand?


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    Re: Limiting Build and Player Creativity?

    Post by FexDS on Sat Jun 30, 2012 8:47 pm

    Please keep a civil tone when posting or the thread will be closed.


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    Re: Limiting Build and Player Creativity?

    Post by zzombieboy on Sat Jun 30, 2012 9:00 pm

    Don't usually have time to swap, unless you anticipate the parry has worked. But in keeping with my general playstyle of surprises (lol), noone expects a mage to parry so keep your catalyst equipped happy You have plenty of time to cast though, especially if your dex is high. With 45 dex, you might have enough to time to switch and cast during the animation, but whenever I play a mage I usually always have my catalyst in my right hand, with Velka's for back up, so I've never tried.

    If you miss the window (by that I mean they've rolled away just before your spell fires), 99% of the time people roll backwards after a parry anyway, so you can usually still hit them.


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    Re: Limiting Build and Player Creativity?

    Post by dancash1808 on Sat Jun 30, 2012 9:08 pm

    Ah, I usually run catalyst in shield hand for buffing purposes hence why I ask winking nice strategy though regardless big grin gona have me rolling sideways now silly


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    Re: Limiting Build and Player Creativity?

    Post by zzombieboy on Sat Jun 30, 2012 9:09 pm

    Heh silly Thaks. Even if you do mess it up, it still looks boss silly


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    Re: Limiting Build and Player Creativity?

    Post by DamageCK on Sat Jun 30, 2012 9:23 pm

    The only time I could get a parry to CSS to work is to unlock and aim straight down when casting the SS. Otherwise it goes right over their head.


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    Re: Limiting Build and Player Creativity?

    Post by zzombieboy on Sat Jun 30, 2012 9:41 pm

    DamageCK wrote:The only time I could get a parry to CSS to work is to unlock and aim straight down when casting the SS. Otherwise it goes right over their head.

    It works better with White Dragon Breath.


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    Re: Limiting Build and Player Creativity?

    Post by DamageCK on Sat Jun 30, 2012 9:56 pm

    Seems like the cast time would be way too long.


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    Re: Limiting Build and Player Creativity?

    Post by Rynn on Sat Jun 30, 2012 10:12 pm

    I'm going to leave my commentary on the video once more...
    When I'm done commenting, I will copy paste it over here. Once more, I largely agree with your video's, and I hope you are better aware that I play devils advocate a bit.
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    Re: Limiting Build and Player Creativity?

    Post by Rynn on Sat Jun 30, 2012 10:29 pm

    You know what? I changed my mind?
    I can't critisize anything at all.
    You know what my only criticism is?
    and I seriously mean this barely even registers in my head... it's ust a random thought.
    "Damn, these fighters are good, I could only be more blown away if they bowed at the end of the fight!"
    Of course, IIRC, you stopped bowing because honor dudes would take offense to it.

    Spamming? Spamming is only spamming if it is the SAME SPELL without change consistantly; like Great Combustion 24 times in a row.. spamming is not dishonorable, but rather a sign of a bad player. It has a bad rep because a lot of honor dudes decided great combustion should not be spammed; so as you mentioned; never learned how to avoid it.

    Also you just gave me an idea that never occured to me; elemental weaponry got discarded by me months ago; as i usually see it used in greifing; I should make my next build use it, so that I can have both offense and defense, by raising multiple magics instead.
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    Re: Limiting Build and Player Creativity?

    Post by zzombieboy on Sat Jun 30, 2012 10:31 pm

    Crystal Soul Spear riposte locked-on (around 8:30) - http://youtu.be/0LYgjYD4KtY

    It's more effective with WDB because it's cast on the ground anyway.



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    Re: Limiting Build and Player Creativity?

    Post by Forum Pirate on Sat Jun 30, 2012 10:49 pm

    Essentially, I agree. I can only be the best if I'm ready for everything, which means fighting against it alot.


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    Re: Limiting Build and Player Creativity?

    Post by DoughGuy on Sat Jun 30, 2012 11:07 pm

    I have one small thing against your use of Twop + sorceries. As much as people complain most things have a counter as long as you have the skill to counter it. However magic + Twop is not one of those things. Look at melee + Twop. You can parry that easily since they will either spam r1 or go for a BS. Using magic + twop you cant counter. There is no way to learn how to fight against that. You can try to parry a WoG but its a lot harder and if you miss once you're probably gone. Sorceries too. Im not sure if you can parry them but even if you can 4 CSSs is gonna deal too much.


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    Re: Limiting Build and Player Creativity?

    Post by Forum Pirate on Sat Jun 30, 2012 11:17 pm

    Parry, vow of silence, not letting them cast twop, your own spells, interrupting their casts with a crossbow or throwing knife, deflecting the spells with force or wog.

    There are several ways around it. Its not easy to counter, but it is avoidable, attempts to twop can be punished, and even caught in it there are reliable ways to survive. No one has them because twop is seen as unfair, so its not accounted for.


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