What Do We Have Left?

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    Serious_Much
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    Re: What Do We Have Left?

    Post by Serious_Much on Fri Jun 29, 2012 11:19 am

    I think most of your list must be sarcastic.. I mean buffing? Stunlocking? Parrying even?

    The one's I'd leave that cause understandable hate is BS fishing, TWoP, ganking, healing (these two are very contextual though), and griefing. Those are reasonable to be annoyed about I think personally. The others you've listed you can rage at or frown upon, but they're not something that have any reason to not happen really.

    I hate lagstabs really, and frankly every BS in PvP without fail is a lagstab. I have never been BS'd in PvP and not teleported in any way unless I was just not moving, just shows how broken BS is in online play.


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    Re: What Do We Have Left?

    Post by zzombieboy on Fri Jun 29, 2012 11:48 am

    Rifter7 wrote:you may view them as crutches, others view it as gimping yourself.

    please don't assume a player is bad and has to rely on a crutch when in reality they want to have a good defense or offense and better themselves at the most mechanical level in order to compete with other like-minded players.

    when someone levels the playing field, most of the time it starts with what they do. they're going to fortify their assets, increase their firepower or outsmart them strategically.

    what they're NOT going to do is intentionally weaken themselves and make up an excuse as to why they lost due to intentional sabotage or boast about how good they are for taking illogical risks and calculations and winning against an opponent they'd beat on fair ground anyways.

    it's just silly. they're not crutches. spamming kunai's out of your mouth at someone or hiding in a group of three vs a temporarily defenseless player is a crutch, stepping your game up to take that and anything else on isn't.

    The build i said I didn't like was (which I specifically mentioned)

    -2500ish vit
    -Full giants armour or havels except for MoM
    -An elemental Claymore which, starting as a warrior, requires merely 3 levels in strength for 485 damage and a very nice moveset
    -DWGR
    http://mugenmonkey.com/darksouls/?c=2051896351285845


    Someone who has made this build is no't trying to level the playing field by increasing their offence/defence, they've deliberately gone out of their way to make a crutch build. From experience, this same person is the one who will continuously backstab fish (which I don't have a problem with by the way), walk through any attack because their poise is high enough to backstab you, and then chainstab you if you let them. After beating you like this, this same player will then use the 'come at me, bro' gesture indicating that they think they won because of a high level of skill....

    (Quite why they need pretty much the best defence and highest vit possible to continuously backstab eludes me, but that's another thread.)

    A new player using some of these in a combination is fine, I agree with you there because individually these items are all very good. However likewise, it's also unlikely that a new player would have enough knowledge of the game to put all of these items together, and certainly not in a min/max fashion. 99% of the time I see this build it's used as I describe above.

    The illogical risks/sabotage you refer to is presumably builds that are unusual or more fun? I don't see this as either. PvP'ers get comfortable with seeing the same builds over an over again. Coming to the table with something completely unpredictable is what I would call outsmarting them strategically. In pretty much all of the builds I make I always make sure I have the correct stat investment to use an arsenal of weapons to keep my opponent on their toes. This is particularly helpful if you end up facing the same opponent over and over again as they won't know what to expect. For example playing my dual pyro toon last night, I invaded the same spawn-camper several times. In the first few matches I parried, and the riposted with Great Chaos Fireball. The last time I fought him, I parried him and then pulled out my Chaos Gargoyle Halberd +5 and punished him for spawn camping. He didn't expect this, it was strategic and it isn't a crutch. He even messaged afterwards to say GG.

    You can be strategic and level the playing field without gimping yourself as you call it.


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    Re: What Do We Have Left?

    Post by WhatDoesThePendantDo? on Fri Jun 29, 2012 11:49 am

    ^Very well said.

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    Re: What Do We Have Left?

    Post by Forum Pirate on Fri Jun 29, 2012 11:56 am

    Thats called playing to the strengths of your build. Its perfectly logical and not a crutch in the least. However much you don't like it, they can play however they'd like. I've met several really savage players who kicked the crap out of me with that same setup. They're not lesser because they used an effective build to do so.


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    Re: What Do We Have Left?

    Post by WhatDoesThePendantDo? on Fri Jun 29, 2012 11:58 am

    I don't think he is arguing that it is illegitimate, I think he is writing that he thinks that it is incredibly dull.

    A sentiment with which I wholeheartedly agree.

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    Re: What Do We Have Left?

    Post by sparkly-twinkly-lizard on Fri Jun 29, 2012 12:06 pm

    min/maxers with skill are kinda rare... but they are quite nasty, plus then there are the ones who invest in different weapons than the claymore that are brutal (great scythe, garg halberd, reinforced club, falchion etc),

    these rare min/maxers can actually be fun to fight, but as i've said they're rare...


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    Re: What Do We Have Left?

    Post by zzombieboy on Fri Jun 29, 2012 12:25 pm

    WhatDoesThePendantDo? wrote:I don't think he is arguing that it is illegitimate, I think he is writing that he thinks that it is incredibly dull.

    A sentiment with which I wholeheartedly agree.
    ]]

    This. If all you're going to do is backstab, at least put some originality into it silly

    I also just didn't agree with the stance of the member I quoted that people have made this build for any reason other than griefing.

    Sparkly -

    Yeah I like fighting these guys. I suck at parrying the Great Scythe, and you hardly ever get a chance to practice!


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    Re: What Do We Have Left?

    Post by Hahalo on Fri Jun 29, 2012 2:09 pm

    What's your definition of Lag Stab?

    The only Lag Stab which I would consider unfair is when the fella is basically teleporting/blinking even when moving normally.. it's visually impossible to read his movement for counter. This cause mainly by connection issues.

    As for those back stab that happen split seconds between my console and his, I don't think that can be accounted as a lag stab, because that can be easily glitch and setup for/avoid.
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    Re: What Do We Have Left?

    Post by DoughGuy on Fri Jun 29, 2012 6:48 pm

    Any BS in which they are not behind me when it happens is a lagstab. If Im teleported significantly in any way, its a lag stab. You'd be surprised how every single BS does teleport me like this.


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    Re: What Do We Have Left?

    Post by dianaduh on Fri Jun 29, 2012 7:40 pm

    Sometimes i think about this.
    What the game give us is to be used, even if it wont be fair. Well, we all know souls series dont play fair with us even in pve.
    But yea, depending on how you use these things may let the fight less enjoyable. Backstabbing, for exemple, is part of the game, but will make the fight shorter and its awful when it 1hit you.
    We just have to deal with it and practice, learn ways to win even if they are dishonest with you.
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    Re: What Do We Have Left?

    Post by Forum Pirate on Fri Jun 29, 2012 10:25 pm

    DoughGuy wrote:Any BS in which they are not behind me when it happens is a lagstab. If Im teleported significantly in any way, its a lag stab. You'd be surprised how every single BS does teleport me like this.
    Thats just latency. Sometimes it really does happen when it shouldn't, but most of the time its legitimate on the other players screen. The easiest way to tell is when you're teleported, if you're actually on their sword its legitimate from their POV, if you're off centered (so the rapier isn't going through the middle of your chest) it probably isn't.


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    Re: What Do We Have Left?

    Post by Rifter7 on Sat Jun 30, 2012 5:20 am

    what about those backstabs where you're standing beside the guy when it happens and no damage is done at all.

    i like when those happen, makes me think i'm a medieval wwe wrestler.


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    Re: What Do We Have Left?

    Post by DoughGuy on Sat Jun 30, 2012 7:52 am

    Forum Pirate wrote:
    DoughGuy wrote:Any BS in which they are not behind me when it happens is a lagstab. If Im teleported significantly in any way, its a lag stab. You'd be surprised how every single BS does teleport me like this.
    Thats just latency. Sometimes it really does happen when it shouldn't, but most of the time its legitimate on the other players screen. The easiest way to tell is when you're teleported, if you're actually on their sword its legitimate from their POV, if you're off centered (so the rapier isn't going through the middle of your chest) it probably isn't.
    Still a lagstab. Whether or not it was legit or their screen, they were never behind me on my screen. Therefore its a lagstab.


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    Re: What Do We Have Left?

    Post by Forum Pirate on Sat Jun 30, 2012 11:15 am

    Its not something they can control. If it works, its almost always because you let it. Your DSS has phantom range, thats the same thing. You hit them on your screen but they dodge in time on theirs and take damage anyways.

    These arn't things that can be controled, therefore banning them doesn't work. Its not abusing lag, its lag distorting your view.


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    Re: What Do We Have Left?

    Post by barecanvas on Sat Jun 30, 2012 12:30 pm

    Under 25% DEX build are the way to go!

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    Re: What Do We Have Left?

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