On honor in duels.

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    On honor in duels.

    Post by Forum Pirate on Wed Feb 01, 2012 7:36 am

    what is generally considered honorable in a duel. if i didnt agree to the fight before hand i'm doing whatever it takes to win, chain bs and wog spam included (I despise darkwraiths, i'm with darkmoon specificly to kill them). but if i'm waiting for a hunter in the forest, what rules should i be following? other than dont farm and ganking is bad, did the ds pvp so i know that much.


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    Re: On honor in duels.

    Post by sen545331 on Wed Feb 01, 2012 9:50 am

    The things i don't agree with are the low-level griefers (finding fights that for the most part are so one-sided its pointless) and the farmers
    if you're invaded while trying to get help/through a level by a DW/DM, by all means, do what you can to win, there have been more than one invader i left alone because all they did was try to get the mobs to help them kill me, i just skipped those groups of mobs
    but if you're going for straight pvp, that's when i think it should be for more of an honor thing, bowing, etc
    if you're the invader side of the pvp spectrum though, expect the hosts to be asses and plan accordingly
    fyi, if you ever ran into me hosting in the forest when i was bored, you'll notice that if i do have a phantom with me, i won't help them, until another invader appears, then i'll go after the second, unless the second goes after my phantom, at that point they aren't going 1v1, so neither will i
    kiln, if i summon phantoms, i'l going for a "+", not pvp
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    Re: On honor in duels.

    Post by Forum Pirate on Wed Feb 01, 2012 11:03 am

    so i should play nice until they kick sand in my eyes. good to know. im new to 'formal' dueling, all my pvp has been with dws looking to pick on pvers, the type who invade the depths and spam wog, so my tactics have been... unscrupulous. really more desperate struggles to keep my hard fought progress than duels.


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    Re: On honor in duels.

    Post by ted1023 on Wed Feb 01, 2012 11:31 am

    Every duel will be different, I usually stand from a far distance and bow as I see my opponent approaching if they charge me then I know it's an anything goes match and that means ANYTHING!!

    With these types of duels I try to keep a safe distance cause the one thing these kind of fighters have in common is they always go for the quick OHK backstabs. They have no interest in skill or having a good fight.

    If they do bow then I think it will normally be a good fight and they are more in it for the skill and the fun of the challenge. When they normally hit a Backstabs or WOG it's cause you were in position for it and not that they were fishing the entire fight for it.

    Also Don't assume the every dark spirit is in the DW covenant, some maybe be using the cracked red eye orb just to invade. I used to invade using them but stopped cause I notice a lot of the people I invaded really had no skill or were just in a panic run..lol Most of the time when that happened I would drop a weapon for them or an item and then jump off a cliff..lol


    Last edited by ted1023 on Wed Feb 01, 2012 11:34 am; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : spelling)


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    Re: On honor in duels.

    Post by Forum Pirate on Wed Feb 01, 2012 12:24 pm

    kinda why i dont like invaders, the only invaders i've seen outside the forest and anor were vicious, so i've fought accordingly. being jumped with a greataxe while i'm trucking through the swamp without the ring for it (i didn't know it exsisted) isnt cool and the best way to be sure i'm not murdering similar noobs in pve gear is to fight in the dueling areas i didn't know were there untill like a week ago. as i dont want to risk being what i despise, i asked the rules for the dueling areas, where i will joyfully and honorably settle my pvp urges. and 1st bonfire room in depths. not a lot of room to manuver and i got 3 in a row. 1 guard break 2 half health 3 dead. not too much i could do. i was towards the back hoping to catch him with iato r2, he tanked it to cast. sad hate that place and its curse frogs.


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    Re: On honor in duels.

    Post by ted1023 on Wed Feb 01, 2012 1:21 pm

    Forum Pirate wrote:1st bonfire room in depths. not a lot of room to manuver and i got 3 in a row. 1 guard break 2 half health 3 dead. not too much i could do. i was towards the back hoping to catch him with iato r2, he tanked it to cast. sad hate that place and its curse frogs.

    I have a lvl 30 toon that I use to battle invaders in the Depths. The first thing I do is run to the barrel room where you first free Laurentis and destroy all the barrles. I then clear my path to the 1st bon-fire the min I see the fire start to go out I haul *** back to the barrel room and wait for my invader to show up..This room is bigger and an gives you more room to maneuver better.

    When the fight is over, rinse and repeat.lol

    Err. just make sure laurentis is not in the room anymore,..lol


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    Re: On honor in duels.

    Post by Glutebrah on Wed Feb 01, 2012 1:26 pm

    lol if anything darkwraith invaders are the honorable ones and forest invaders are not.


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    Re: On honor in duels.

    Post by Forum Pirate on Wed Feb 01, 2012 1:50 pm

    but in the forest i'm probably waiting for a fight anyways so it doesn't matter and when wraiths (or cracked orb) users invade i very likely have an hour or so of work on the line and death is a serious setback.


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    Re: On honor in duels.

    Post by Glutebrah on Wed Feb 01, 2012 1:51 pm

    Forum Pirate wrote:but in the forest i'm probably waiting for a fight anyways so it doesn't matter and when wraiths (or cracked orb) users invade i very likely have an hour or so of work on the line and death is a serious setback.

    i was comparing dark wraiths in pvp places like painted worlds and the Klin, vs forest hunters in the forest
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    Re: On honor in duels.

    Post by theAnimus on Wed Feb 01, 2012 1:52 pm

    Are you referring to "dueling"? Or invading? Unless you impose the idea of a duel on yourself, entering someones world, or being entered by an individual, is not a duel.
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    Re: On honor in duels.

    Post by Forum Pirate on Wed Feb 01, 2012 2:15 pm

    theAnimus wrote:Are you referring to "dueling"? Or invading? Unless you impose the idea of a duel on yourself, entering someones world, or being entered by an individual, is not a duel.
    both, the way i see it, a duel (a fight both parties were looking for)has rules i wasn't sure of, while in an invasion (a fight the host didn't want) anything goes.


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    Re: On honor in duels.

    Post by Scudman_Slayer on Wed Feb 01, 2012 2:24 pm


    50/50 chance of either player winning

    dependant on skill

    no healing or running away and agrooing AI

    no glitching

    no lagstabing

    No grieving




    Honestly i ONLY find honorable and fair duels in high lvls

    the only thing i see on lvl 120 pvp are

    Elemental weapon users Look Skyward

    Lagstabers Look Skyward Look Skyward

    BKGA wielders Look Skyward Look Skyward Look Skyward

    mages spamming magic which are easy to dodge but are laggy as hell making me get hit when the projectile is not even near me Look Skyward Look Skyward Look Skyward Look Skyward


    fights where its not 50/50 chance of either one winning

    if the guy is a mage and i am a meele fighter and i have medium armor (i.e medium movement) there is 75% he will win due to lag shots

    thats just bull if you ask me

    there should be a chance of everyone winning

    AND THERE HAS TO BE VARIETY TO THE DAMN THING not everyone wielding BKGA or using magic

    alright thats enough sorry for raging there Prostration

    thats my rant on how honorable pvp should be





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    Re: On honor in duels.

    Post by Glutebrah on Wed Feb 01, 2012 2:58 pm

    sometimes lagstabbing isn't done on purpose though, if i get lagstabbed after i swing and miss i accept it as a good BS on his part.

    lag pivot BSs, if they don't kill me will always result in a pivot backstab of my own just to even it up.


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    Re: On honor in duels.

    Post by Forum Pirate on Wed Feb 01, 2012 3:06 pm

    why is pivot bs considered cheap? its not easy unless they suck and it hurts yeah but its not a glitche or exploit and if its a lagstab it was going to happen anyways


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    Re: On honor in duels.

    Post by ted1023 on Wed Feb 01, 2012 3:43 pm

    Forum Pirate wrote:why is pivot bs considered cheap? its not easy unless they suck and it hurts yeah but its not a glitche or exploit and if its a lagstab it was going to happen anyways



    Honestly I'm not sure if I would consider it cheap..If it was a one shot thing, but if your whole tactic is to fish for pivot stab or any back stab ...then to me it's lame. Like I have stated in the past if i'm in a fair fight and I make a wrong move and get stabbed ..shame on me, but if I'm fighting someone and that is all hes' fishing for then I have no problem blasting him in the face with PYRO,WOTG or anything else that will punish him.. When fighting I have always tried to avoid hitting a backstab cause it's become a cheap tactic when abused.


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    Re: On honor in duels.

    Post by Forum Pirate on Wed Feb 01, 2012 4:09 pm

    i think cheap and effective are being mixed up. it can be countered and punished like everything else so its only considered cheap because its powerful? in that case anything worth using is cheap. yes someone can gear for 0HKO and fish all day and its irritating but if i let it work its my fault. its no different than fishing for an opening with a greataxe or a spell.


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    Re: On honor in duels.

    Post by ted1023 on Wed Feb 01, 2012 4:41 pm

    I guess the bottom line is what someone is looking to get out of the game.. The context of the word cheap really isn't fair if you look at it from different perspectives.

    There are certain things that can be done in a game that some will call cheap or boring cause of the sheer amount of use that tactic seems to get, but in all honesty that doesn't necessarily mean it's doesn't require skill to pull off. It can just mean it's so common that it no longer satisfies his/hers interest. There in lies the problem, last I checked everyone bought the game on their own so no single person or group has the rite to tell you how to play the game. My opinion of a tactic is just that, my opinion , doesn't make me right or wrong.

    Back to the original question (pivot stabs) hey if it work for you go for it.. If someone can't defend against it they'll die and come back and fight again nothing lost.. If they don't like it and are invaded by someone they know only uses this tactic.. They can just use the crystal and send them back home or just disconnect. I play the game to have fun I have 2 main builds both melee fighters one uses the Flamberg and the other uses a Uchi.. The flam stuns like a b**ch if they don't know how to break it..some can consider that cheap. When I fight someone more than once and if I completely dominate them I will try to re-invade using only the weapon they have . I haven't done it in a while but it's been fun..


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    Re: On honor in duels.

    Post by Ragnar0k on Wed Feb 01, 2012 7:29 pm

    If I invade someone and realize they are at a severe disadvantage I try to back out of the fight and leave something for them (usually). If the player won't let me retreat but I clearly have the upper hand I back up whenever they try using Estus and don't re-engage until they've fully healed.

    One thing I always thought was cheap was the Lloyd's Talisman. I've been a Dark Wraith a good while and I've never used that item once. If I'm going to jump someone in the middle of their game they deserve whatever advantages available to them. After all, an invader stands to lose absolutely nothing if he's killed but he can REALLY ruin his victim's day.
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    Re: On honor in duels.

    Post by Toastfacekillah on Wed Feb 01, 2012 7:54 pm

    Ragnar0k wrote:One thing I always thought was cheap was the Lloyd's Talisman. I've been a Dark Wraith a good while and I've never used that item once..

    Its not cheap when you use it on gangbanging hosts who keep flasking to heal their phantoms. I do find it funny tho when clearly I'm about to duel 1 v 1 and the invader chucks them at me, even tho I've got no intention of healing.


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    Re: On honor in duels.

    Post by theAnimus on Thu Feb 02, 2012 4:03 pm

    Ragnar0k wrote:One thing I always thought was cheap was the Lloyd's Talisman. I've been a Dark Wraith a good while and I've never used that item once. If I'm going to jump someone in the middle of their game they deserve whatever advantages available to them. After all, an invader stands to lose absolutely nothing if he's killed but he can REALLY ruin his victim's day.

    Is this not the entire point of invasion? I throw them like it's going out of style. I can't flask, you can't flask. If they end up healing, I blame myself for not completely smothering their candy ***.
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    Re: On honor in duels.

    Post by Forum Pirate on Thu Feb 02, 2012 6:17 pm

    keep humanity on you and both parties can heal anyways, just gotta be more careful about it.


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    Re: On honor in duels.

    Post by strangejoy on Thu Feb 02, 2012 6:57 pm

    The only things I find cheap these days are multi-player camping, abusing the BB glitch in online play (BB griefers), abusing invasion parameters to only fight people a fraction of your level (some overleveled darkmoons and forest hosts), and stabbing during a bow when you're in an area known for dueling. I'm also not terribly fond of people running away from a duel after they start losing (it's a waste of time), although running away during a random invasion is perfectly fine. In fact, anything goes in random invasions.

    People who constantly circle or charge in for the pivot stab are by far the easiest people to backstab. As far as I can tell, the counterstab is about 50-100% easier than the cold pivot stab, so the circle jerks are really only hurting themselves. "Lagstabbing" is mostly a myth; it just refers to people backstabbing during lag, which is sometime unavoidable and often unintentional. WoG spam isn't that hard to deal with. GC spam isn't that hard to deal with. TWoP is no longer a major issue. Stunlocks are 90% myth and 10% avoidable. The BKGA is good, but it can be parried and it has somewhat high stat requirements to be effective. The family masks and giant's armor are good, but using them makes you look like an idiot.


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    Re: On honor in duels.

    Post by Toastfacekillah on Thu Feb 02, 2012 7:02 pm

    The only thing that pisses me off is chain bs. I understand why people do if they are facing two or three but in a 1 v1 its pretty much the only thing that makes me rage.


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    Re: On honor in duels.

    Post by reim0027 on Thu Feb 02, 2012 11:29 pm

    Here's what I do.

    Dueling
    1. grass, buff, bow, let my opponent do the same
    2. no healing unless my opponent does
    3. no glitching, purposeful lagging
    4. one on one only, unless they jump first
    5. bow at the end, if I win.

    invasions, if I invade, I go by dueling rules. otherwise anything goes - anything.


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