need some suggestions

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    Rifter7
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    need some suggestions

    Post by Rifter7 on Tue Jun 26, 2012 3:58 pm

    hey guys. i wanted to make a new build, but i'm tired of the bss, cblade/katanas and scythes.

    i also wanted to use faith, but i hate wotg, dmb buff and twop.

    can someone suggest some versatile weapons and a combo to use with lightning or just faith spells?
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    Re: need some suggestions

    Post by Carphil on Tue Jun 26, 2012 5:53 pm

    I suggest you to start making your build with this http://tinyurl.com/7u9pvae


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    Re: need some suggestions

    Post by Carphil on Tue Jun 26, 2012 5:59 pm

    If you don't like using STR weapons, you can try to use new types of DEX weapons, and with 40 dex, you can cast the lightning spears even faster, and viable for PVP http://tinyurl.com/7kp95ws

    this is also a pretty good one http://tinyurl.com/7fbb873


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    Re: need some suggestions

    Post by roanispe on Tue Jun 26, 2012 6:08 pm

    I do have a pure Faith caster called El Priesto that uses all the offensive miracles, but he performs generally very poorly. I don't really know how to give you a combo or simply suggest versatile weapons, so I went ahead and made a build. It isn't your standard WoG and buffed Katana, so I think that is what you are asking.

    Since you are probably most concerned about miracle setup, let me explain my choice of Force and Great Lightning Spear. Force is an underused utility miracle, I liken it to the Kick or Backstep. The ability to punish a poor roll with a stagger on heavier players and knock-down on light ones is very useful. It allows you to be the one to apply pressure as for a crucial second your opponent cannot do anything. Aside from being able to throw people off ledges, an unscrupulous use against players that are knocked down by the casting is Chain BS. Many people would frown upon that, so user beware. It also comes with an amazing 21 castings, which makes the absolute most of your limited attument slots. The other miracle picked is Great Lightning Spear, the more powerful version of the normal Lightning Spear. It is capable of punishing any attempt to cast 'X' Tempest spells or a Gravelord Sword Dance. Since you aren't optimised for miracle damage and it is very hard to hit with these spears, I would save your 8 castings and use it for surprise or until you learn to use them unlocked. Some people might call me crazy for suggesting that, but I have seen videos of people casting spells unlocked for enhanced accuracy.

    Your weapon setup is the Silver Knight Shield, Crescent Ax, Darkmoon Bow, and the Canvas Talisman. Let me explain me choices, as I think this is a sort of setup you might enjoy a lot. The Silver Knight Shield has the most stability out of any shield that can parry. This will help you learn how to setup parry, a useful skill to learn if you are just starting to get ennui with Dark Souls PvP. The Crescent Ax is an unusual choice of weapons, but I think it is the sort of thing that you are looking for. It will require effort and patience to get the most out of the Ax. Although it might feel like it isn't doing too much damage with the fact that it is split Physical/Magical, you'll have fairly good range to back it up. It also possesses the ability to stunlock careless players. You need to remember to block cancel whiffed swings, and to play with a reactionary style. This matches your miracle setup and parrying capability with the Silver Knight Shield. The final weapon I chose was the Darkmoon Bow. It is a very powerful little tool that is capable of decimating careless opponents. Make sure to equip both Moonlight and Poisoned arrows to get the most out it. Remember, phantom hits with poisoned weapons still increase poison build-up and that the bow is no exception. Even if your opponent mosses, if your bow is already out and drawn you can get another hit in. If your opponent is satisfied to remain glowing purple, switch to Moonlight to improve your damage.

    Also note that the stat distribution allows to switch to a buffed Dex weapon should you be unable to have fun with this build.


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    Re: need some suggestions

    Post by DamageCK on Tue Jun 26, 2012 6:09 pm

    If you hate all the good points of faith builds, what are you making one for?


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    Re: need some suggestions

    Post by Carphil on Tue Jun 26, 2012 6:15 pm

    roanispe wrote:I do have a pure Faith caster called El Priesto that uses all the offensive miracles, but he performs generally very poorly. I don't really know how to give you a combo or simply suggest versatile weapons, so I went ahead and made a build. It isn't your standard WoG and buffed Katana, so I think that is what you are asking.


    I noticed that you can lower the STR by 2 points and put them in ATT so you can have one more spell slot

    Edit: great explanation btw Hurrah


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    Re: need some suggestions

    Post by roanispe on Tue Jun 26, 2012 6:41 pm

    Carphil wrote:I noticed that you can lower the STR by 2 points and put them in ATT so you can have one more spell slot

    Edit: great explanation btw

    Thanks for pointing that out, I should try to avoid silly mistakes like that in future, so a +1 for you. Here is the build remade with the extra attunement slot having Gravelord Greatsword Dance. This miracles is unlike the rest of your setup as you don't react to a clear-cut mistake your opponent makes. Rather, it is a tool to punish gankers, to create space in tight corridors, or as a last ditch attempt to deal damage. When dealing with gankers, the problem is often that there are so many of them and so little of you. An AoE spell is a great way to deal with them if you can get it off. Running and hiding behind corners often will give you that extra second or two that you need to cast the spell. Similarly if they manage to force you into a hallway, you can cast it and watch them back away, provided you keep your back to one of the walls. Although the Swords pop out randomly, that can be to your benefit when all is about to be lost, when you have almost no HP left and your opponent comes charging. A lucky skyward stab can send your opponent earthbound, but to count it on it is folly.

    The best hint I can give to use this miracle is to keep your back to a wall or anything that prevents a backstab. Another concern with using it are people with ranged attacks, who can (like you should too with you Lightning Spear and Bow) back off and land a guaranteed hit. Finding some sort of interposing obstacle, even though not always possible, is often your best bet. The Forest, for all its problems in PvP makes a great home for the Gravelord Greatsword Dance.


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    Re: need some suggestions

    Post by Rifter7 on Tue Jun 26, 2012 7:04 pm



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    Re: need some suggestions

    Post by Forum Pirate on Tue Jun 26, 2012 7:11 pm

    So you want a dex/faith hybrid, without the best faith spells, leaving glgsd, force, and highly situational spells more likely to get you killed trying than accomplish anything. At the same time, you're swearing off several of the weapons that benifit most from slb. Have fun with that man.


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    Re: need some suggestions

    Post by DamageCK on Tue Jun 26, 2012 7:23 pm

    ^Yup.


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    Re: need some suggestions

    Post by Carphil on Tue Jun 26, 2012 8:14 pm


    Cool, but remember if you enjoy playing with other wiki members , our SL cap is 120, so if necessary lower that 5 points in dex. Overall, is a good build for the forest... I don't see too much difference from what you were trying to avoid though


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    Re: need some suggestions

    Post by Rifter7 on Wed Jun 27, 2012 3:23 am

    i usually just play public matches.
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    Re: need some suggestions

    Post by Rifter7 on Wed Jun 27, 2012 3:34 am

    what do you think of these tweeks.

    bumping dex up to 45
    dropping the armor down to
    crown of dusk
    armor of thorns
    dark gauntlets
    havel's leggings
    the 53 poise breakpoint's been hit.

    swapping in a great scythe
    does the crescent axe have a similar moveset to the guillotine axe?
    i'll just suck it up and use wotg. what about replenishment since there's no crescent shield and just popping grass when it runs out midfight.
    cool idea with the great gravelord swordsdance. it's similar to what i use on my other pyro builds, but would i need to be a gravelord servant?

    heres a link http://tinyurl.com/6ny688a

    i'm kind of iffy on the armor tho.. im not sure. i'd be grateful for your opinion, as i have always been a pyro/magic user aside from a few dmb buff builds that i've since deleted.

    and of course, i can always swap my scythe out.. but what do you think of a black bow of pharris?
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    Re: need some suggestions

    Post by roanispe on Wed Jun 27, 2012 5:05 am

    Okay looking at your current build, I see something fairly competitive. I see a few problems right off the bat, though. First of all healing is generally frowned upon by the PvP community, so I changed replenishment to Force. Another problem is that your Crescent Ax does less damage than your Great Scythe, even though it is split. I cannot see you using it too much so I traded it for a +10 Divine Gargberd. Not only does it do more damage when combined, it also it frees up some points from Strength which I redistributed. Another great property of the Gargberd is how it improves Bleed resistance, which can help you when your opponent is charging with the Lifehunter Scythe. While I am sure you have a great understanding of how to use the Great Scythe well, the Gargberd is a formidable weapon with its long reaching r1 and ability to play a very good cross-up game. You can decide to block cancel your r1 so that you can consistently lay long range pressure, or you can let the whiff go through and you can punish a punish-attempt with the follow up r1 which is a wide, close-range sweep. It is best done with a lock-off so that you can make sure you get the hit, and face your opponent. If you do the sweep and change facing too late, then a backstab is your fate.

    Your redistributed points allowed me to get an extra attunement slot, which I placed a Great Lightning Spear in. We already discussed its uses, but something that I should mention now is the WoG/Force mix-up. You'll have 3 casts of WoG, which does require skill to land effectively. While not being enough to spam, mixing in Force will let you intimidate as if you can. Your opponent will be unable to tell if you are casting a WoG or not till the blast, and often by then they are dodging. I placed Force before WoG so that you can decide to switch to lethal force quickly. It is a useful trick to apply pressure in addition to the tricks already had by Force. Pivot-cancelling WoG, while hard to do, is a skill worth practising to get even more out of your limited casts. The good thing about pivot-canceling is that it is a skill you can practice by yourself next to a bonfire. Final word about WoG, don't be afraid to finish someone off with it. It isn't cheap or unfair, it is the exact same thing as getting hit with a surprise jump-attack. (Remember to use that with your Gargberd and Great Scythe, those have awesome jump-attacks.)

    I also changed your armour to be something a bit unique that hits another crucial poise breakpoint of 62, which lets you take two 2h Katana hits. Normally I add one more to what each weapon does for poise damage, but I cannot spare it from your build. Tank the hits at your own risk. When you are wielding the Gargberd, you have a healthy Bleed resistance of 289. However without it, your bleed resistance is a much lower 193. Choose which weapon to wield in response to your opponent. Your physical defence is nothing to scoff at, with most being 400. You'll be careful about magic, but play a reactionary game to a Darkmoon Blade buffed weapon. Other than that, it looks good. Although this build looks quite a bit different, it is still the same thing you just posted at heart.

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    Re: need some suggestions

    Post by Rifter7 on Wed Jun 27, 2012 5:22 am

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    Re: need some suggestions

    Post by roanispe on Wed Jun 27, 2012 6:39 am

    Alright since you don't want to use the Balder Side Sword originally, I am going to offer this. The problem with your original build is that 30 Faith and the Darksun Crown won't do any threatening damage at that SL, so I changed it to the Dusk Crown. I also gave you Havel's Gauntlets to increase your poise and use some of the extra weight. I also decided to give the Furysword, which is a powerful and fun weapon. It will give a different experience from the the tried-and-true dexterity weapon classics. All in all, it's doesn't really need a fixing. However, if you are going to keep it with the Balder Side Sword, I wouldn't make it Lightning. The split damage will make it do less than a +15 even though it has a higher AR.

    Just a word of warning, Emit Force is very inviting to backstabs and that I have never hit anything with it in my entire Dark Souls PvP career. Unlike all the other miracles we talked about I never used this successfully, so I can't offer any real advice other than pivot-cancelling looks really neat with it.


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    Re: need some suggestions

    Post by dancash1808 on Wed Jun 27, 2012 6:47 am

    Emit force locked off and pointed at the ground near your feet can work if they are going for a BS other than that Not much hope... good posts man.


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    Re: need some suggestions

    Post by Rifter7 on Wed Jun 27, 2012 8:59 am

    i think i'm just going to use my old faith build. if it ain't broke..

    feel like i've wasted your time roan, but i'll + your posts as well as carphil's when i'm able to.
    i bet people will find some helpful info here, tho.

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