Ring of the Sun Princess and Miracle Synergy (can use a little bit of help!)

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    Ring of the Sun Princess and Miracle Synergy (can use a little bit of help!)

    Post by retro on Mon Jun 25, 2012 2:02 pm

    After some testing, I feel like I've compiled information that's more accurate and more clear than what's on the wikis. To see what I can use help with, skip to the second post.

    I've found that the explanation for The Ring of the Sun Princess has been a little confusing, and for that we have to thank the in-game item description. "Boosting" miracle synergy is its less common, secondary use. A better explanation for the RotSP would be that it "gives" miracle synergy.

    What do I mean by that? When you're wearing the ring, just imagine an invisible, permanent resonance sign following you around. That's pretty much all it does. Using a synergy-capable miracle with the ring on is no different than not wearing the ring and using the same miracle standing near a resonance sign. They do the same thing, with the same degree of effect.

    The only time a miracle synergy gets boosted, is when the ring stacks with a resonance sign. Two nearby resonance signs do not stack, but the ring + a resonance sign do stack. There is a visual difference, the white ring that appears over your miracle's icon will appear thicker for what I call the "double synergy boost".

    A couple other misconceptions:
    -Unlike Force, Wrath of the Gods does not have its ranged increased.
    -All resonance signs are the same and always boost ALL synergy-capable miracles. Earlier speculation by some believed that resonance signs corresponded with different groups of miracles, giving boosts to some but not others (force and wotg vs. heal and replenishment). Instead, there are 9 total that will always receive the boost, and the rest will not.

    Here are my findings copy/pasted:


    Miracle Synergy Indication (The White Circle on your Miracle's Icon)

    • When a miracle displays a glowing white circle over its icon, it has received a synergy boost that will work upon use. For those who aren't wearing the Ring of the Sun Princess, this can only be activated by standing near a miracle resonance sign.
    • The Ring of the Sun Princess has a built-in synergy boost. While worn, all miracles than can be synergized will be treated as if there's a permanent miracle resonance sign nearby.
    • If someone who is already wearing the Ring of the Sun Princess approaches a resonance sign, the effect will stack as a double boost and create a thicker white circle over the icon.

    ^ Photo. The difference may appear subtle between the two pictures, but it's an obvious difference when seeing the thick version activate/ deactivate in the game. The thick, double boost also has white speckles around it.

    • The white circles can be difficult to see if a talisman is equipped and the miracle is able to be cast at the moment. Put the talisman away to see the synergy-indication circle clearly.


    Ring and Synergy Damage Boosts

    • Synergy and double synergy boosts will stack with extra damage created by items like the Ring of the Sun's Firstborn.
    • The double boost is created only by stacking a resonance sign with the Ring of the Sun Princess. Two nearby resonance signs without the ring will not create the double boost.


    Synergy Capable Miracles

    • Heal
    • Great Heal Excerpt
    • Great Heal
    • Replenishment
    • Force
    • Wrath of the Gods
    • Emit Force
    • Soothing Sunlight
    • Bountiful Sunlight


    Incapable: Magic Barrier, Homeward, Seek Guidance, Vow of Silence, Tranquil Walk of Peace, Lightning Spear, Great Lighting Spear, Darkmoon Blade, Gravelord Sword Dance, Gravelord Greatsword Dance. Unlikely, but not yet tested: Great Magic Barrier, Sunlight Spear.

    Miracle Synergy boosts different miracles by different amounts

    • Heal: ~8.3% more health restored w/ boost. ~16.6% w/ double boost.
    • Replenishment: 20% faster/ more health w/ boost, 40% w/ double boost.
    • Force: Range is increased by ~2-3 feet.
    • Wrath of the Gods: No range increase. ~4.5% more damage w/ boost, ~9% more damage w/ double boost.
    • Emit Force: ~5% more damage w/ boost, ~10% more damage w/ double boost.
    • Bountiful Sunlight: Same improvements as Replenishment.
    • Unable to test Great Heal Excerpt, Great Heal, and Soothing Sunlight yet.


    Not all of these numbers are exact and will vary slightly. You can expect results that are a couple 10ths of a percent off.
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    Re: Ring of the Sun Princess and Miracle Synergy (can use a little bit of help!)

    Post by retro on Mon Jun 25, 2012 2:03 pm

    Here's what I can use help with:

    • Test the percentage of extra health gained from Great Heal Excerpt, Great Heal, and Soothing Sunlight. Requires high vitality.

    -My routine for testing the amount of health gained was to drain my health very low, and then heal with and without the help of a synergy boost. My faith characters both have vitality that is too low, so my health gets filled all the way for anything better than the regular heal miracle. I'm guessing that the Great Heals will have the same percentage gain as regular Heal, but I haven't been able to find out.

    • Confirm the damage boost amount. Use WotG on an enemy both with and without the Ring of the Sun Princess equipped and compare the damage.

    -I got the numbers in the OP trying different Talismans and characters with different Faith amounts. It doesn't seem like this will affect the percentage much or at all, but my two characters only had slightly different Faith stats (48 and 50). If you have a character with much higher or lower Faith, it'll be easier to be certain that it doesn't affect anything. As long as the numbers are close (4.3 instead of 4.5% boost for WotG, etc), then everything should be good. You can see the specific numbers I got in the comments of this thread.
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    Re: Ring of the Sun Princess and Miracle Synergy (can use a little bit of help!)

    Post by Shkar on Mon Jun 25, 2012 2:06 pm

    I could have sworn I saw the ring get thicker when I stood near two resonance rings...


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    Re: Ring of the Sun Princess and Miracle Synergy (can use a little bit of help!)

    Post by User on Mon Jun 25, 2012 2:10 pm

    That's good, I don't use any form of offensive miracle (not including gravelord miracles) other than emit force. I would use synergy miracles more... if there were more synergy rings within the PS3, as I have not found ONE other than the ones set in Catacombs. As I have seen many players use such Synergy miracles, including myself, you would expect to find them more... nope. Played over 800 hours of gameplay, have seen over 10 vagrants, all BP areas, different weapon types, lots of encounters from different covenants and other things... never a Synergy Ring made by another player. not one.

    I know I am not the only one. Experience from others, other than myself, shows that PS3 users get them less than Xbox users just based from youtube videos and experience form PS3 and Xbox users.

    http://soulswiki.forumsrpg.com/t5806-the-only-thing-i-have-never-seen-other-than-some-vagrant-types

    Sigh. I would look into them more, if I can find them on the PS3. Nope, I got none so far.
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    Re: Ring of the Sun Princess and Miracle Synergy (can use a little bit of help!)

    Post by skarekrow13 on Mon Jun 25, 2012 2:15 pm

    If I get a chance with my main character I could do testing for the heal series for you. It would be easy to pop into the catacombs and use those miracles with and without the ring.

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    Re: Ring of the Sun Princess and Miracle Synergy (can use a little bit of help!)

    Post by retro on Mon Jun 25, 2012 2:17 pm

    That would be great, thanks skarekrow!

    Shkar wrote:I could have sworn I saw the ring get thicker when I stood near two resonance rings...
    This may be possible if resonance signs 'in the wild' behave differently than the permanent ones in the Catacombs. Those two signs do not stack, and they are definitely in range of each other if you're standing between them.

    If xbox players are able to test this, you can do the following:
    -Do not wear the ring of the Sun Princess
    -After finding two nearby signs in the wild, approach one slowly
    -Approach the one slowly so that the second one is further away, on the opposite end
    (The white indication ring takes a second or two to pop up when you're already in range)
    -When you see the indication ring appear over your miracle's icon, keep your eye on it
    -Run between the two resonance signs, watch to see if the white indication ring jumps to a bigger size

    I am guessing that it probably shouldn't, but who knows!
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    Re: Ring of the Sun Princess and Miracle Synergy (can use a little bit of help!)

    Post by Shkar on Mon Jun 25, 2012 2:28 pm

    I haven't seen any in a while (haven't been checking too much either), but one night I saw a TON of them in the forest. As in, 3 less then a flip away from each other with several scattered around them.

    It's almost like using the ring passes it to another player or there is some special criteria needed for it to show up...


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    Re: Ring of the Sun Princess and Miracle Synergy (can use a little bit of help!)

    Post by skarekrow13 on Mon Jun 25, 2012 4:38 pm

    Whoops. I'll have to put the disclaimer that I won't be able to test Soothing Sunlight any time soon as my only character with high enough vitality to test these spells is nowhere near being able to join Princess Guard. I flipped the game so I would have a clean slate for DLC with my main character and I have zero bosses beat at the moment. The Great Heal duo is no problem, I even have Great Heal currently attuned for forest invasions. You get one or two tree in the fight and you'd be amazed at how much time campers will give you to heal.......

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    Re: Ring of the Sun Princess and Miracle Synergy (can use a little bit of help!)

    Post by retro on Mon Jun 25, 2012 7:40 pm

    Acidic_Cook wrote:Sigh. I would look into them more, if I can find them on the PS3. Nope, I got none so far.

    Yeah, it's unfortunate. I guess we can assume that the patch for 'fixing' the resonance signs only worked on the xbox? I'm also on PS3, and I'm fairly sure I haven't seen any anywhere else as well. I did all the testing I could with the perma-signs in the catacombs. That basically just leaves the conditions for creating / seeing signs a mystery, which I can't help figure out.

    skarekrow13 wrote:Whoops. I'll have to put the disclaimer that I won't be able to test Soothing Sunlight any time soon as my only character with high enough vitality to test these spells is nowhere near being able to join Princess Guard. I flipped the game so I would have a clean slate for DLC with my main character and I have zero bosses beat at the moment. The Great Heal duo is no problem, I even have Great Heal currently attuned for forest invasions. You get one or two tree in the fight and you'd be amazed at how much time campers will give you to heal.......

    That's cool, any help is great! Even if you can only test a 'single boost' and not the double, that might be sufficient information. All of the double boosts so far have been almost exactly double the percentage gained from a normal boost, so we can probably just guess it if we get the first number.
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    Re: Ring of the Sun Princess and Miracle Synergy (can use a little bit of help!)

    Post by Federally on Tue Jun 26, 2012 3:46 am

    I believe the Force is improved more so then just range. My Smough cosplay wears the ring and has force, after equipping the ring I noticed more range and and increased poise break. I can now fling people who are further away and have more resistence to being flung.


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    Re: Ring of the Sun Princess and Miracle Synergy (can use a little bit of help!)

    Post by DoughGuy on Tue Jun 26, 2012 3:51 am

    Have you added what you've got to the wiki so far?


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    Re: Ring of the Sun Princess and Miracle Synergy (can use a little bit of help!)

    Post by retro on Tue Jun 26, 2012 11:41 am

    Federally wrote:I believe the Force is improved more so then just range. My Smough cosplay wears the ring and has force, after equipping the ring I noticed more range and and increased poise break. I can now fling people who are further away and have more resistence to being flung.
    Oh, cool! Didn't think to test poise. I'll have to see if I can find someone to test it with. Although there are plenty of people who understand poise and poise breakpoints much better than I (my characters have all been low or zero poise so far). Someone else might be able to explain the benefits it may have in better detail.

    DoughGuy wrote:Have you added what you've got to the wiki so far?
    Not yet, but I plan to updates the wikis soon.
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    Re: Ring of the Sun Princess and Miracle Synergy (can use a little bit of help!)

    Post by retro on Wed Jun 27, 2012 4:06 am

    I asked about the poise breaking, had a couple guys say that "force should always break poise on a poise breakable target". Didn't know that! If regular force already does that, then we can assume that there's no improved impact on poise from the synergy boosts.

    Being able to fling people from further away would be explained by the range increase...

    So perhaps that just leaves stamina drain? Maybe there's an improvement to stamina drain when the enemy is blocking?


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    Re: Ring of the Sun Princess and Miracle Synergy (can use a little bit of help!)

    Post by skarekrow13 on Wed Jun 27, 2012 9:47 am

    retro, haven't been able to play an games the last couple nights. I haven't forgot to help though and will see about tonight.

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    Re: Ring of the Sun Princess and Miracle Synergy (can use a little bit of help!)

    Post by Federally on Wed Jun 27, 2012 6:52 pm

    retro wrote:I asked about the poise breaking, had a couple guys say that "force should always break poise on a poise breakable target". Didn't know that! If regular force already does that, then we can assume that there's no improved impact on poise from the synergy boosts.

    Being able to fling people from further away would be explained by the range increase...

    So perhaps that just leaves stamina drain? Maybe there's an improvement to stamina drain when the enemy is blocking?

    There is a particular poise break to Force. Sometimes I can launch people and throw them on their back, other times it just stuns, like a guard break. I just don't know what the poise break is.


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    Re: Ring of the Sun Princess and Miracle Synergy (can use a little bit of help!)

    Post by DoughGuy on Wed Jun 27, 2012 8:11 pm

    At 77 poise you get stunned by force/WoG, not thrown in the air.


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    Re: Ring of the Sun Princess and Miracle Synergy (can use a little bit of help!)

    Post by Federally on Wed Jun 27, 2012 8:59 pm

    DoughGuy wrote:At 77 poise you get stunned by force/WoG, not thrown in the air.

    Force can flatten you, doesn't throw you in the air, but it can knock you flat on the back. I believe this is stamina related, but I'm not sure what allows it to occur.


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    Re: Ring of the Sun Princess and Miracle Synergy (can use a little bit of help!)

    Post by DoughGuy on Wed Jun 27, 2012 9:01 pm

    flatten, thrown in the air same meaning. And Im pretty sure its poise related.


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    Re: Ring of the Sun Princess and Miracle Synergy (can use a little bit of help!)

    Post by Federally on Wed Jun 27, 2012 9:55 pm

    DoughGuy wrote:flatten, thrown in the air same meaning. And Im pretty sure its poise related.

    Well while we were fighting Billy today on O&S I used force a few times, he had 70 something poise and I couldn't knock him down even when he was just standing next to me. Yet I've knocked guys across the room before who appeared to have a decent amount of poise. I think I need to try and experiment to find the poise break point.


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    Re: Ring of the Sun Princess and Miracle Synergy (can use a little bit of help!)

    Post by retro on Thu Jun 28, 2012 12:43 pm

    Federally wrote:I think I need to try and experiment to find the poise break point.
    That would be greatly appreciated. happy
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    Re: Ring of the Sun Princess and Miracle Synergy (can use a little bit of help!)

    Post by skarekrow13 on Fri Jul 06, 2012 9:30 am

    Retro, sorry! I did those tests awhile ago but forgot to post the results. Here you are and sorry again.....

    I did testing with my primary character, mid 40s faith with canvas talisman and Forest Hunter Covenant. I wasn't sure if the princess ring would up it to double synergy being a Hunter but it absolutely did.

    Great Heal Excerpt:
    By itself- healed from 234 to 1710 or 1476
    With one resonance ring- from 217 to 1716 or 1499
    With resonance and princess ring- from 9 to 1578 or 1569

    Going from the base amount (1476) the resonance ring increased the spell by 1.56%
    From the base value, the double synergy effect increased it by 6.30%
    Double Synergy increased the spell by 4.67% from single synergy



    Great Heal:
    By itself- from 164 to 1640 or 1476
    With resonance ring- 49 to 1571 or 1522
    With resonance and princess ring- 115 to 1684 or 1569

    From the base amount (1476 again) single synergy increased the spell by 3.12%
    Double synergy, compared to base is also 6.30% since the healing amount was the same. Compared to single synergy, double synergy went up 3.09%


    It's intriguing that Great Heal only provides more casts than excerpt and not actually a higher healing amount, with the weird anomaly of single synergy numbers.


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