Solaire as God of War

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    Solaire as God of War

    Post by Buggy Virus on Fri Jun 22, 2012 6:40 pm

    Everyone seems to believe that Solaire is the obvious god of war candidate, being a powerful NPC, who is obsessed with the sun.

    But recently people have been throwing out more an more candidates, such as Andrei and Oscar, and although they have some interesting theories, I think that Solaire is still the strongest candidate.

    1. Solaire is the head of the Warriors of Sunlight covenant. Only very powerful, supernatural beings, are the heads of covenants. We see this in all the covenants, except for the way of the white, which it seems Reah is. But really Reah is merely a high ranking human in the Way of The White, whereas its power is derived from the gods. As such it is stated to be a covenant with the gods. On the other hand, if you listen to Solaire's dialogue and he offers you to join his covenant, you are making a direct covenant with him, implying that the power of the covenant is derived from his being.

    2. Through his covenant you learn the lightning spear miracles, which Solaire randomly knows. If the covenant is derived from solaire that means he is the source, and he didn't learn it through the covenant, but rather from someone else (his father Gwyn?).

    3. When reminiscing about the sun he refers to it as like, "a magnificent father." It seems likely that when he was cast down from godhood as the god of war he retained the thought that his father was the lord of sunlight. Perhaps his fall from the god of war is entwined with Gwyn's relighting of the flame of disparity, which is why he would still find Gwyn related to the sun instead of cinder, because he hadn't become the lord of cinder yet.

    4. All that random location stuff. His showing up at the destroyed statue of the god of war and that being the site of his covenant. His being able to be summoned to fight gwyn as the last stop on his quest for the sun. His being a very powerful being even when using basic equipment.

    All these points make Solaire out to the be obvious candidate for the God of War, or at least a son of Gwyn. I doubt we will ever find complete definite evidence with no room for doubt as one person being the god of war, but given the circumstances and evidence, and if we apply occam's razor (which in this community we often neglect to do) it would seem Solaire is our man.

    And beside, he's the broiest


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    Re: Solaire as God of War

    Post by Lancelot on Fri Jun 22, 2012 7:04 pm

    Of course Solaire, imo, is the true God of War. People just like expressing theories that sound cool.


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    Re: Solaire as God of War

    Post by Shkar on Fri Jun 22, 2012 7:15 pm

    Almost all of that goes equally for the player. You can learn lightning spear, you can go through the game with no armor and be great and uber, joining while Solaire is there has him direct you to the statue (IIRC), you can get a better lightning spear the. Him, and killing him doesn't remove you from the covenant (again, IIRC).


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    Re: Solaire as God of War

    Post by skarekrow13 on Fri Jun 22, 2012 7:49 pm

    Is he the leader or a disciple a la Petrus or Rhea? Dun dun dun

    I'm just jocking ya. I've done enough of this topic and Solaire does have a lot of evidence (even though it's Andre)
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    Although since you mentioned Occam's razor I would be remiss if if I didn't point out that, and this assumes the broken statue is the God of war, Solaire is definitely not the obvious choice

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    Re: Solaire as God of War

    Post by Shkar on Fri Jun 22, 2012 8:17 pm

    I disagree, almost everything people use as evidence for Solaire is circumstantial IMO.


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    Re: Solaire as God of War

    Post by User on Fri Jun 22, 2012 8:24 pm

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    Re: Solaire as God of War

    Post by DoughGuy on Fri Jun 22, 2012 9:41 pm

    1. No he's not. The god of war is the cov leader, not Solaire.
    2. Again, not his cov, the god of wars. He is a warrior of sunlight, a member, not the leader, so of course he knows the miracles. The player can learn the miracles.
    3. he's dedicated to the cov and likes the sun.
    4. So is the player. His locations are not random.


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    Re: Solaire as God of War

    Post by JoeBroski09 on Fri Jun 22, 2012 9:59 pm

    Solaire didnt have to learn the sunlight spear from another. He invented the sunlight spear. It says that its the God of War's miracle. He is known for it. He is not known for his respect for arms alone.

    Plus, sol=sun aire=heir. Heir to the sun. Why people doubt solaire, ill never know.


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    Re: Solaire as God of War

    Post by DoughGuy on Fri Jun 22, 2012 10:03 pm

    JoeBroski09 wrote:Solaire didnt have to learn the sunlight spear from another. He invented the sunlight spear. It says that its the God of War's miracle. He is known for it. He is not known for his respect for arms alone.

    Plus, sol=sun aire=heir. Heir to the sun. Why people doubt solaire, ill never know.
    Solaire does not know sunlight spear. Its lightning spear. Just be craeful with that.
    Theres too much against Soalire, and too much that is for him is circumstancial.


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    Re: Solaire as God of War

    Post by SunlightCrusader on Fri Jun 22, 2012 10:06 pm

    I honestly think that if the god of war is in game that it is Solaire. However I personally believe that the god of war does not exist in game. We can find bits of evidence in support of one person or the other but this is exactly what has led me to believe that the god of war is simply a lore figure rather than an actual in game figure. Perhaps From intended this search for him and planted these bits of evidence to fuel debate.


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    Re: Solaire as God of War

    Post by JoeBroski09 on Fri Jun 22, 2012 10:06 pm

    There's no such thing as mere cirumstances and coincidences when it comes to From.


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    Re: Solaire as God of War

    Post by User on Fri Jun 22, 2012 10:08 pm

    You are all wrong; it is the Onion Knight.

    30. Strong Arm, Strong Faith, and a Strong Heart.

    The God of War... such a troubling speculative topic in which all have put their mind towards in the search for it. Many come with the ideals of which tie towards some of the characters we have seen within the world, and point towards the individuals who have the qualities that show more favourably towards that of the God of War within plain sight. However many have speculated over individuals such as the Blacksmith Deity, who we have talked about in the post before hand. We have not put an entire name towards such a Blacksmith nor a God of War, although it is speculated that it was once Sen, as the fortress somewhat implies towards the ideals of both of these deities, which has also been speculated to be the same... again, see the post from before. But many speculate over a possible being that it might be the God of War, and I have found to show the most promise to be...

    The Onion Knight. Such a strong contender, in which he has many ideals that many speculate over. Many see him as just a traveller; and adventurer who comes and goes in between our story of Lordran, and as such is part of it as a mere sideline character... or is he? Let us come to the links that ties towards him, shall we?

    First thing to note is the knight itself. The knight is armoured with something that many see as ridiculous to others, however the armours design in general is useful within combat, able to parry of attacks and a good amount of protection to the wearer itself. Even its design allows light weight to be distributed towards the knight, and the armour he wears even allows a small shield to be his side arm, armed with a needle used to push enemies and pierce them when they get too close with a quick punch. Even more so, he carries a Zweihanger, which he uses with both hands. Beings such as the Paladin could not use their heavy weapon with a fast pace as the Onion Knight (and usually swings it as if he does not have enough strength, even if they do a good amount of damage). However his swings are deadly and strong, as we have seen within Lost Izalith, as he destroys his enemies with about one to three swings with his sword, which is also electrified if I add. Such use of armour and weapons, even if they do not weight a lot, would need a good arm to use. Although the piercing shield is lightweight and scales also with dexterity, the arm does not have to mean strength in general, but also the speed of the swing; the flexibility of the arm as well. Plus, you need to be strong in order to do a good amount of damage with it. As well, the greatsword would need to have a wielder with a high amount of strength to use it, even if it is lighter than most ultra greatswords and requires less strength. Although their are other weapons that require more in terms of the quality in endurance, strength, and dexterity, the weapons and armour of the onion knight nonetheless requires a good amount of the power and speed of the arm, and the design of the weapons shows better qualities than the more numerous armours and weapons such as the steel armour from the tower knights and even the armour of Iron Tarkus, which is heavier and with less quality (made out of thick iron, instead of the quality in which the onion armour has been made in terms of architecture and design). Such quality of the knight, although with better quality in terms of design and weight, is also more vulnerable than that of the iron and steel armours used by the Berenike Knights (Iron Tarkus comes from that country, region, or whatever it may be). It would be necessary for the knight to have a good amount of vitality to survive some of the dangerous blows, and he has more health than most of the characters that the player meets (I have tried to kill him a couple of times... I faired better against others). Of course these examples are just the person itself, and others such as Solaire and the blacksmiths follow. So let us see the other qualities in which the Onion Knight shows.

    Locations, the second part, is the most interesting. The one and only place you see the onion knight is by the gate, and he seems to be waiting for the gate to be open. Of course it could be that he failed in terms of ringing the bells... or it could be that he is waiting for someone else to do it for him. As the onion knight is seen usually sitting in both the gate and in sens itself (apparently unable to explore by the terms of boulders), it is unlikely that it is the case, as anyone that has under 100% the endurance weight in terms of passing the boulders possible, in which case the Onion Knight could pass (as he is not over it, as we have seen him run normally before). It could be that, as Sen's was made as a proving ground, that the Onion Knight might see it as unfair to solve, or even more so is waiting for another to prove his worth of judgement by the ideals of both the blacksmith and the god of war: The power of the arm. It could be that he is waiting for someone for a purpose. Although for what is unknown.

    Another location that can be added is the painted room in Anor Londo; The one that contains the Silver Knights, the three that guard the room. Within the room, it contains many pictures within it, like the other bed chamber before it. However the pictures are... different. It has paintings of the creature known as the sentential, in which can be said to be the cousins of the giants themselves,a s they have the same structure of large body, small head, and good strength. It is also interesting to note the other pictures in the room as well. The pictures show many locations within Lordran itself, including undead parish, Sen's fortress, Anor Londo, and possibly New Londo before it was flooded (one picture with a location troubles me, but it shows similar qualities as New Londo) or possibly even the wall that surrounds New Londo itself. Even more so, the room also contains a chest that holds the blacksmith deities' signature identity: The Demon titanite. With such locations of the world, as well as the sentential and the titanite within the room to be seen and obtained by the player, it can be said that the Onion Knight seeks something within the room that shows qualities in which may define it as the room of the Blacksmith itself, and possibly even the God of War (if they are the same).

    Last but not least is Ash Lake, Blighttown, and Lost Izalith. Unlike Solaire (who has the Lava Ring) and the Thorned Knight (who is a chaos servant), the Onion Knight has no access towards Lost Izalith, in which case he should not be there at all. So why would he be, if he does not have the lava ring? Is he a chaos servant? Unlikely, but the aspect of him being there troubled me for a time. However his other locations does show an 'alternative' access in which the player can not use: The Arch Trees. In Blighttown, he is found in the middle of nowhere in the swamp, close to where the server and hollow ramp are, asking the player for moss. If you do, he states that perhaps it is the will of Lord Gwyn that lead them both together, and laughs. Even more so, he is later found within ash Lake supposedly dead by his daughter, which is also in an onion suit. It could be that, since an Arch tree is in the center of lost Izalith, that he used it to go into Lost Izalith himself. But where did he obtain such knowledge of travelling in Ash Lake, being that a hidden paradise for dragons to reside from humans? One could wonder that the reason for going to Anor Londo was to receive information as to how to go there... of course we do not see it in our perspectives (or perhaps, maybe we missed something). Or, as the miracle of Havel can be found in Ash Lake as well, as well as a head of a suppose dragon, possibly an everlasting dragon, one could speculate that he knew what it was, because he fought in ash lake in the war of the dragons, if he is the God of War. As he travels across lordran after the events in blighttown VIA Arch Tree, it could be that he is seeking something within the battlegrounds of the gods. It is interesting to note that his body is by a bonfire within Ash lake as well. What is the relevance of his corpse being near the bonfire, the home of the undead? Was he killed by the hands of a supposed daughter either being hollow or undead, or was it something else that caused him to die? The daughter never really explained as of how he 'died'. However it is note able that the body, unlike when the player killed the onion knight themselves, still has the body laying on the ground. Now whether or not it is something of that of his death not coming from the player or not is unknown, or it is that from wanted to show the body for a reason. For what is unknown, although some would guess that it is for proof that he died. Of course, his corpse could be laying on the ground for the purpose of something else. Perhaps similar to that of every corpse the player finds within the world, in which case the item he holds is locked away from the player to grab at first. Perhaps.

    His locations seems to show signs of familiarity in the world, as well as his locations being that of odd when questioned, although many see it as an adventurer instead of something bigger. So... what other proof do I have of him? Heh, well I can say that I still have a good amount up my sleeve. Solaire, unlike other warriors, seems to follow the ideals of the god of war and the blacksmith deity. However, although he has the skill to use such things, he seems to lack the drive to use it. Why that may be is odd indeed. It seems that he is somewhat odd, as he seems to always be in trouble. He is a tactical being, in which case he speculates over troubles such as Sens Fortress (the boulders and his incapability), Anor Londo (the usage of many other warriors), Blighttown (the need for moss, even if he went halfway across the swamp), and Lost Izalith (stuck by some demons of chaos). what is humorous about all these situations is combined with the statement he makes when you meet him in Firelink Shrine, stating that he is 'prepared for the worst'. Even though his country known as Catarina and its influence is unknown, the Onion Knight knows enough of Lord Gwyn, stating that 'Perhaps this too is the will of lord Gwyn', as said in blighttown. What will is it that Gwyn made beforehand is unknown. Perhaps it is the first death from his daughter, in which the daughter stated in firelink shrine that 'if he goes hollow, i'll just have to kill him again'. Note that when she said this, she was very calm about it... similar to a certain cleric was in different situations from the influence of the player and lautrec. Or is it something else? As it was the will of lord Gwyn that relit the flame after the chaos flame was born, and the god of war is speculated to have done reckless things during the war of chaos, it could be that he is referring to the time when Gwyn relit the flame of disparity the second time.

    It is also interesting to note about his sense of humor. He is always happy of sorts, or if not focused. He is never let down by anything, unless in the certain circumstance that he suicides in Lost Izalith (when he has lower than 50% health, and all demons in pit die), he becomes sad and dies after a brief conversation... odd, isn't it? Perhaps it is the low amount of health and the poisonous liquid that he stand upon that killed him... or perhaps the cheery mood that he had was there for a reason. If he has over 50% and all demons die, he does what would go against the ideas of the poison killing him: He sleeps on the damn tar pit. Standing up, I might add. (an excellent skill; I would love to have at times of listening to people, hah!) This would contradict that the lower 50% health suicide was caused by poison. Perhaps it was by injuries, being too exhausted to live and died. Maybe, however him being able to pass across Sens, Anor Londo, and Blighttown would have put a lot of pain towards him from enemies, as well as any being. Him bleeding out or becoming corroded by the chaos eater's acid is... plausible. If that were the case, what can we say about the insides of the man we call the onion knight? The acids do not corrode weapons by time, but instead a quick spew and staying in it for too long decays it instantly. However, it does not do so over time, so it is unlikely it is the acid. Perhaps it was indeed the emotions that kept him alive all this time.

    The Onion Knight, always so cheery and happy. It could be that the influence of the sunlight, if he is the God of War and the Blacksmith, to be the very essence that kept him alive. Strong Arm, Strong Faith; Strong Arm. Seems to match the ideals of the god of War, don't you think? When his heart withered in that tar, perhaps the ideals of the heart withering in terms of strength and faith were the cause of his death. Would explain a few... but what about his daughter?

    Hm... I never liked her, I will say it as much. I have had my suspicions about her since I found her 'fathers' dead body in Ash Lake. One of them is her prison. Her prison is inside that of a Crystal Golem, that is within the backyard of the Archives. She says that he killed him once... but when? When did she kill her father beforehand? It is never explained, however she states that she wanted to give him the last words her mother told her. Mother... who would this person be? Hard to say, but suspicions of who she is still being looked over. Of course she does not say that her mother died, just saying that she needed to pass her mother's final words... Hm. Such ideals would tend to believe that the mother is someone special, but to who she is would be hard to say... although new ideas are trumping over old in terms of the search.

    She also hangs more in the Firelink Shrine than her father. She goes there twice. One is for when she asks again where her father is, the other when she states she found him. Now whether or not she actually talked to him when she found him or not is unknown. However, the daughter seems to be ok about killing her father again if he goes hollow, as her emotions do not indicate any sense of worry, guilt, or any form as such. perhaps that, if she is the onion knight's daughter, then she might know her father well of his personality, and not worry about it leading to her finding him hollow... such ideals hinder me. She is still being researched at this time, however the speculations of the old might have to be removed for a better understanding. Still, the search continues for her.

    As for the ideals of the other candidates of the God of War, including Solaire and Andre... unlikely. As I said before, i see none of them a good candidate for the cause. For one the blacksmith is the same as every other stone blacksmith out there, holding embers in their hands with the same facial hair, hair, and body structure. If it were the same God of War, it would be unlikely to have turned to stone again and again, even more so in places where candidates that reject him would be. The one in the tombs that is filled with skeletons, and the one in the painted world that is filled with the crow demons and the hollows is unlikely a cheery crowd to have liked the blacksmith. For one, the hollows would have attacked him on sight, with the crows killing him for they represent sin (as hinted by their form and the item they hold); the other is the skeletons, in which are also unlikely, as they already have a blacksmith that possibly does their work (Vamos), as well as the workers of Nito are followed against the war of chaos with Gwyn, as Nito and Gwyn are together in the battle of chaos (as stated and seen in before posts), and the God of War speculated to have done something wrong during the Chaos Wars. The blacksmith of the forest is also unlikely, as the holy structure it once was (supposedly a church or fort of some sort, as indicated by the structure and the halo knights (the stone knights... look at the heads)) is also dead at the hands of a butterfly. Now how the blacksmith obtained the key is unknown, however it indicates that the blacksmith and havel were once was... or someone else. As both a blacksmith and a priest are found at the door to ornstein and smough show, as well as the influence of Havels Miracle in Ash Lake with the onion knight, it could be that the key was given to the blacksmith by a third being, possibly the God of War. Such an obvious speculation would have pushed the eyes of the story seekers towards the stoned blacksmith, instead of another being. As Havel believed in similar ideals of the God of War in terms of a strong arm (dragon tooth and all armor), strong faith (a bishop he once was, later a warrior and comrade of Gwyn),and possibly once a strong heart (although his enhollowment might say otherwise); it could be that the former bishop turned knight and the God of War were once friends, as they both show similar ideals.

    As all the blacksmiths that are stoned are dead, it would be odd to say that the blacksmith got reincarnated three times, then came a fourth time in a hidden, broken church. It is odd to note that this broken church also leads towards the forest as well as Sens as well. If it was abandoned for a new church (a church of Velka), it could of been that the old church was once the church of the God of War, as the connections towards Sens (battleground of blacksmith/god of war), as well as the forest (leading towards the other blacksmith area as well as the forest of Artorias... hm), it could be that the church of the God of War was replaced by the Church of Velka for unknown reasons... although some come to mind. It could be that the blacksmith Andre is not that of the God of War, but what the pardoner is to Velka; a priest and a worker. As the blacksmith follows similar ideals as the blacksmith deity/god of war, it could be that the blacksmith follows the ideals of the god of war. Interesting to note that, even thou the Onion Knight is said to be designed well for combat, that the blacksmith makes fun of the armor he wears. Now why that is, is unknown. However it could be that, as the records of the God of War were lost, that the features of the God of War were gone as well. it would explain why the blacksmith easily laughs at the onion knight. That being said, the stoned blacksmiths could have been followers as well, as all three hold divine weapons (yes, occult is divine of sorts), in which determines the weapons scale by faith, in which ties all the stoned blacksmiths and Andre to the Blacksmith and God of War deity, as they focus on raw weapons and the faithful.

    And Solaire? I have already stated before, and I stated again: He does not follow the entire ideals of the God of War. The Onion Knight, despite holding an unknown miracle emit force(which is an alternative to force, a way of white miracle that havel is in... heh), but he never uses it, nor any other miracles. Not even the blacksmiths do, and instead use the power of their arms to do so. the great lightning spear rejects the ideals of such miracle use, as the God of War only believed in the power of the arm, even if he inherited the sunlight. Even more so, solaire also seems to be hindered by a path that is the same as the player. It seems that solaire could be similar to the player in terms of a contestant to solve what was brought to the world, and instead fights towards the same goal. However his sanity seems to wither within Lost Izalith. Strange, as he goes insane by the helmet known by the Sunlight Maggot (which is a parasite, which says some things...), but if not he resides in the shortcut in a sense of revelation. He doubts the ideals of the sun, and instead goes towards that of defeating Gwyn in the end with the player. Now two things are wrong here. One, the God of War did not care about sunlight at all, and the sunlight warrior seemed to be seeking it, even thou the God of War already had it. Two, is the loss of faith. As the God of War believed in that of Strong Faith and a Strong arm (as the pattern shows countless times), Solaire loses faith in the end in Lost Izalith, about everything he followed. It could be that the revelation was the one thing that absolutely rejected the ideals of him being the God of War, as he breaks the very code in which the God of War followed. Although he keeps a watchful eye on his warriors like Solaire, the Onion Knight seems to follow the same trend as well... hm.

    Now, for the research to continue. I must go for now, as my fingers are becoming numb from this long type of words. I will continue with this soon, and you can ask any questions as usual. I will meditate as I usually do, and find the answers when I play with my comrade. I will be on my Ipod, so post if will... the God of War is seen to be Onion Knight as I see it. I may be wrong, but of course I have found that every failure was needed in order for success to be obtained. The lore is not over, so failure is possible. In the end, they will be removed from the minds of everyone, and the lore will be found. My heart sees it as such.
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    Re: Solaire as God of War

    Post by DoughGuy on Fri Jun 22, 2012 10:15 pm

    Oscar.


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    Re: Solaire as God of War

    Post by Shkar on Fri Jun 22, 2012 10:31 pm

    Just sayin, Patches...


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    Re: Solaire as God of War

    Post by DoughGuy on Fri Jun 22, 2012 10:32 pm

    Vamos


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    Re: Solaire as God of War

    Post by Shkar on Fri Jun 22, 2012 10:33 pm

    The crow. Such strong arms...


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    Re: Solaire as God of War

    Post by DoughGuy on Fri Jun 22, 2012 10:36 pm

    Asylum Demon. Think about it, the only one who doesnt use magic.


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    Re: Solaire as God of War

    Post by User on Fri Jun 22, 2012 10:49 pm

    Balder Knight, Steel Knight, Lautrec, Rat, Large Rat, Huge Rat.

    So Strong...
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    Re: Solaire as God of War

    Post by SunlightCrusader on Fri Jun 22, 2012 10:53 pm

    JoeBroski09 wrote:There's no such thing as mere cirumstances and coincidences when it comes to From.

    I think they were very deliberate in placing clues but that they are left for us to interpret which leads to debate. Like I said I don't believe a definative god of war exists in game rather the lore and clues exist for us to toy with. He is a lore figure but I don't think there will ever be a definative agreement on who is most likely his in game form. These discussions are still fun and often hilarious.

    Just saying Tarkus...


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    Re: Solaire as God of War

    Post by Shkar on Fri Jun 22, 2012 10:54 pm

    We know time travel is possible in Dark Souls, maybe the God of War is Gwyn and he want back in time and became his own father...


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    Re: Solaire as God of War

    Post by SunlightCrusader on Fri Jun 22, 2012 10:56 pm

    :shock: Ew thats just wierd to think about.


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    Re: Solaire as God of War

    Post by User on Fri Jun 22, 2012 10:56 pm

    Chucky, is that you?
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    Re: Solaire as God of War

    Post by skarekrow13 on Fri Jun 22, 2012 11:28 pm

    Fry is his own grandfather thanks to getting nasty in the pasty so he is the God of war

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    Re: Solaire as God of War

    Post by DoughGuy on Fri Jun 22, 2012 11:29 pm

    Anyone heard the song about the guy who becomes his own grandpa through a convoluted cycle of marriage?


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    Re: Solaire as God of War

    Post by JoeBroski09 on Fri Jun 22, 2012 11:34 pm

    DoughGuy wrote:Anyone heard the song about the guy who becomes his own grandpa through a convoluted cycle of marriage?
    Yes. My good friend in 5th grade won the Talent Contest for singing that over and over again getting faster and faster every time. Freaking awesome big grin


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