... Dark souls review?

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    Re: ... Dark souls review?

    Post by JoeBroski09 on Sun Jun 17, 2012 5:38 am

    Better late than something something something


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    Re: ... Dark souls review?

    Post by Tolvo on Sun Jun 17, 2012 5:39 am

    Unless you are pregnant. big grin
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    Re: ... Dark souls review?

    Post by Forum Pirate on Sun Jun 17, 2012 5:44 am

    Tolvo wrote:Just do what I do when I make a slip up in a debate, say it was a feint to gauge the responses of others.

    ...Which I do actually do from time to time haha. Debating is war man! You need recon, flanking, feints, and bombardments! Plus battleships!
    I do, but my troops are used to steam rolling things, or simply convincing others that its not worth the effort.


    Thats still not story telling. Which was my point. The story is there, but its not told, its inferred. RPG as an umbrella term covers nearly every game as mentioned earlier. It can be validly argued the COD, Blitz, some NFS games, and ace combat are RPGs by that standard, which we also clarified, isn't the standard I'm using.


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    Re: ... Dark souls review?

    Post by Tolvo on Sun Jun 17, 2012 5:45 am

    Blitz 2000 is only one genre, Awesome. Point Forward
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    Re: ... Dark souls review?

    Post by Forum Pirate on Sun Jun 17, 2012 5:47 am

    Lol.


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    Re: ... Dark souls review?

    Post by eminusx on Sun Jun 17, 2012 5:47 am

    haha I know, man i just woke up and saw an extra 6 pages!! nice works fellas!

    . . .scurries off to chemist for pregnancy test kit. . . ahem


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    Re: ... Dark souls review?

    Post by Tolvo on Sun Jun 17, 2012 5:51 am

    Haha, Blitz 2000 is the peak of American Football games to me. Though Sports in general, got to hand it to Mario. Sure those games are usually imbalanced, and damnit Yoshi won't *** return their serves! But they're so much fun.
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    Re: ... Dark souls review?

    Post by Forum Pirate on Sun Jun 17, 2012 5:52 am

    Tolvo wrote:Indeed, maybe if Transhumanists ever have their way Subject will become Object haha.
    Btw, no Idea what Transhumanists are. I get the words involved, but I get the feeling the meaning is greater than the sum of its parts.


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    Re: ... Dark souls review?

    Post by Tolvo on Sun Jun 17, 2012 5:55 am

    They are people who want humans to become something more than what they naturally are. Think of it as ascending humans, they want to create a better state. The goal of a transhumanist is to eventually create what would become, a Posthuman. Often this is contributed to scientific advancements, but it can also be philosophical, spiritual, etc.

    Pretty much, think tall beautiful perfect human that is immortal, and can only think objectively. You'd probably hold some of their views, though they think it is attainable while realistically, I can't fathom that level of existence. Though that's why I'm not a transhumanist haha.
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    Re: ... Dark souls review?

    Post by Federally on Sun Jun 17, 2012 5:56 am

    Forum Pirate wrote:
    Tolvo wrote:Just do what I do when I make a slip up in a debate, say it was a feint to gauge the responses of others.

    ...Which I do actually do from time to time haha. Debating is war man! You need recon, flanking, feints, and bombardments! Plus battleships!
    I do, but my troops are used to steam rolling things, or simply convincing others that its not worth the effort.


    Thats still not story telling. Which was my point. The story is there, but its not told, its inferred. RPG as an umbrella term covers nearly every game as mentioned earlier. It can be validly argued the COD, Blitz, some NFS games, and ace combat are RPGs by that standard, which we also clarified, isn't the standard I'm using.

    Forum you're stuck in the same old world view as many others in the industry. Everyone thinks a game needs to be more like a book or movie, where the story is told or shown. This is flawed thinking and doesn't work with the strengths of gaming, which is the game play itself. Dark Souls creates a world with lore and back story then requires you to tell your own story through game play. You're stuck in an out dated view point that is accepted and pushed by the main stream gaming industry.

    I would encourage you to broaden your horizons and investigate how society and the gaming industry and culture have influenced and molded your thoughts and expectations when it comes to video game story telling.


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    Re: ... Dark souls review?

    Post by eminusx on Sun Jun 17, 2012 5:59 am

    Tolvo wrote:They are people who want humans to become something more than what they naturally are. Think of it as ascending humans, they want to create a better state. The goal of a transhumanist is to eventually create what would become, a Posthuman. Often this is contributed to scientific advancements, but it can also be philosophical, spiritual, etc.

    Pretty much, think tall beautiful perfect human that is immortal, and can only think objectively. You'd probably hold some of their views, though they think it is attainable while realistically, I can't fathom that level of existence. Though that's why I'm not a transhumanist haha.

    doesnt sound radically different from Nietzsches 'ubermensch'.


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    Re: ... Dark souls review?

    Post by Federally on Sun Jun 17, 2012 6:00 am

    Federally wrote:
    Forum Pirate wrote:
    Tolvo wrote:Just do what I do when I make a slip up in a debate, say it was a feint to gauge the responses of others.

    ...Which I do actually do from time to time haha. Debating is war man! You need recon, flanking, feints, and bombardments! Plus battleships!
    I do, but my troops are used to steam rolling things, or simply convincing others that its not worth the effort.


    Thats still not story telling. Which was my point. The story is there, but its not told, its inferred. RPG as an umbrella term covers nearly every game as mentioned earlier. It can be validly argued the COD, Blitz, some NFS games, and ace combat are RPGs by that standard, which we also clarified, isn't the standard I'm using.

    Forum you're stuck in the same old world view as many others in the industry. Everyone thinks a game needs to be more like a book or movie, where the story is told or shown. This is flawed thinking and doesn't work with the strengths of gaming, which is the game play itself. Dark Souls creates a world with lore and back story then requires you to tell your own story through game play. You're stuck in an out dated view point that is accepted and pushed by the main stream gaming industry.

    I would encourage you to broaden your horizons and investigate how society and the gaming industry and culture have influenced and molded your thoughts and expectations when it comes to video game story telling.

    Because everyone else bumped their posts that were last on the page!



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    Re: ... Dark souls review?

    Post by Tolvo on Sun Jun 17, 2012 6:02 am

    You're right, that can be considered a Transhumanist idea, and the Ubermensch itself being the Posthuman.
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    Re: ... Dark souls review?

    Post by Forum Pirate on Sun Jun 17, 2012 6:04 am

    Oh, well thats exactly what it sounded like it was. Damn you language!!!!!!!!

    Anyhow, I see the apeal, but I prize my humanity. I don't wish to only think objectively, only to always be capable of doing so. That way, I'm not left unable to understand a perspective different from my own, and so can work to my own benifit where possible, but see the necessity of sacrifice to preserve my relationships or right perceived wrongs.


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    Re: ... Dark souls review?

    Post by Tolvo on Sun Jun 17, 2012 6:06 am

    You probably have some Transhumanist, and humanist ideals. But of course not the entire philosophies. I never find a person is really one thing when it comes to their moral beliefs, but there are always common traits. I need to read less and go out more haha.
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    Re: ... Dark souls review?

    Post by Forum Pirate on Sun Jun 17, 2012 6:13 am

    @Fed, I've seen stories told through gameplay in games like Journey and Flower. I really don't like that style. If I'm playing a game for story, I'd prefer it be told. I'm fine with being able to affect it, but I can't care about the characters if The story isn't fairly linear. I already like myself, my journeys are cool, but there's no engagement. I'm not connected to the character, I am the character. I'm not concerned about my saftey. When I first played KOTOR, I was very concerned about the characters safety once I knew them, lending a weight to the game that the "story through gameplay" games don't have.


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    Re: ... Dark souls review?

    Post by Tolvo on Sun Jun 17, 2012 6:15 am

    Damnit, trying to appeal to the Star Wars nerd within me. You smart devil.
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    Re: ... Dark souls review?

    Post by LordRevan on Sun Jun 17, 2012 6:18 am

    Forum Pirate wrote:@Fed, I've seen stories told through gameplay in games like Journey and Flower. I really don't like that style. If I'm playing a game for story, I'd prefer it be told. I'm fine with being able to affect it, but I can't care about the characters if The story isn't fairly linear. I already like myself, my journeys are cool, but there's no engagement. I'm not connected to the character, I am the character. I'm not concerned about my saftey. When I first played KOTOR, I was very concerned about the characters safety once I knew them, lending a weight to the game that the "story through gameplay" games don't have.


    Prostration Prostration Prostration Prostration Prostration

    For mentioning KOTOR 8)


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    Re: ... Dark souls review?

    Post by Federally on Sun Jun 17, 2012 6:20 am

    Forum Pirate wrote:@Fed, I've seen stories told through gameplay in games like Journey and Flower. I really don't like that style. If I'm playing a game for story, I'd prefer it be told. I'm fine with being able to affect it, but I can't care about the characters if The story isn't fairly linear. I already like myself, my journeys are cool, but there's no engagement. I'm not connected to the character, I am the character. I'm not concerned about my saftey. When I first played KOTOR, I was very concerned about the characters safety once I knew them, lending a weight to the game that the "story through gameplay" games don't have.

    Okay now we are into discussing preference, and your opinion on a style of story telling is legitimate and makes sense. However to judge Dark Souls and what genre or labels fit it based on your preference doesn't work. You prefer an Rpg that tells a story like a book or movie, fine but that doesn't mean a story through game play experience like DkS is not an Rpg.


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    Re: ... Dark souls review?

    Post by Tolvo on Sun Jun 17, 2012 6:21 am

    Didn't we all agree to disagree like five pages back haha.
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    Re: ... Dark souls review?

    Post by eminusx on Sun Jun 17, 2012 6:23 am

    Tolvo wrote:Didn't we all agree to disagree like five pages back haha.

    i didnt.

    belligerant. . . much?

    big grin


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    Re: ... Dark souls review?

    Post by Tolvo on Sun Jun 17, 2012 6:24 am

    Well know you missed six pages, so that wouldn't be possible. silly
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    Re: ... Dark souls review?

    Post by Forum Pirate on Sun Jun 17, 2012 6:28 am

    I can say the same about everyone in star ocean 1-3 and meracle in 4.

    By the same token, commander sheppard is a faceless blob so that You can direct him/her as you like, so the continued life of sheppard isn't interesting in the least. If someone wrote a book about Tali, miranda, mordin, ot whatever the drells name is, I'd read it in a heartbeat.


    Thats also how I define RPG in the context of videogames. Thats how they've been for a very long time. RPGs have me fill a role not my own and experience their story. DKS doesn't do that, its my story. All well and good, but I'm not playing a role. It was my role to begin with.


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    Re: ... Dark souls review?

    Post by Federally on Sun Jun 17, 2012 6:32 am

    Forum Pirate wrote:I can say the same about everyone in star ocean 1-3 and meracle in 4.

    By the same token, commander sheppard is a faceless blob so that You can direct him/her as you like, so the continued life of sheppard isn't interesting in the least. If someone wrote a book about Tali, miranda, mordin, ot whatever the drells name is, I'd read it in a heartbeat.


    Thats also how I define RPG in the context of videogames. Thats how they've been for a very long time. RPGs have me fill a role not my own and experience their story. DKS doesn't do that, its my story. All well and good, but I'm not playing a role. It was my role to begin with.

    That's fine but to continue saying DkS is not an Rpg because it doesn't do what you want is the same as sticking your fingers in your ears and screaming "I can't hear you!" You're just being stubborn and refusing to admit the truth.


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    Re: ... Dark souls review?

    Post by Forum Pirate on Sun Jun 17, 2012 6:37 am

    No I'm not. Truth in this matter is subjective (As it is in most every matter). I am merely trying to make everyone use mine, lol.

    It is outside my definition of RPG, so I will not call it one and argue my points if the opportunity arises to do so im a reasonably civilised manner. Thats not refusing the truth.


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