What the Hell produced that Soul?

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    Madara
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    What the Hell produced that Soul?

    Post by Madara on Thu Jun 14, 2012 7:37 pm

    I feel that this is something that is really overlooked. Its said that there was a Soul the fire which was shared amongst the lords, but what could be powerful enough to bring the Dragons to the brink of extinction? What caused that fire or whatburned within that fire to create a soul like that, was it the predecessor to the dragons? Maybe something older? What do you guys think?
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    Re: What the Hell produced that Soul?

    Post by Eolan on Thu Jun 14, 2012 8:03 pm

    The primordial serpents could be key to all of this. Primordial crystal for the dragons? when they got bored, a soul for the humans.


    Last edited by Eolan on Thu Jun 14, 2012 8:03 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : comma)
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    Re: What the Hell produced that Soul?

    Post by Madara on Thu Jun 14, 2012 8:24 pm

    Eolan wrote:The primordial serpents could be key to all of this. Primordial crystal for the dragons? when they got bored, a soul for the humans.
    That's an interesting concept, immortal serpents starting a chain of events and watching them unfold, but if that is the case what happened to the rest of there race, and in which case they have been killed then i don't think these primordial serpents are all as immortal as they make out to be. Its a good theory but i still don't know.
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    Re: What the Hell produced that Soul?

    Post by dancash1808 on Thu Jun 14, 2012 8:30 pm

    If you look during
    Spoiler:
    non link the fire ending
    you will see they are by no means extinct. perhaps they didnt want to confuse the humans so they gave them a simple good guy bad guy option winking


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    Re: What the Hell produced that Soul?

    Post by Madara on Thu Jun 14, 2012 8:31 pm

    dancash1808 wrote:If you look during
    Spoiler:
    non link the fire ending
    you will see they are by no means extinct. perhaps they didnt want to confuse the humans so they gave them a simple good guy bad guy option winking
    The thing is that its just Frampt and Kaathe there, none other than them. I don't know, its just there aren't even hints of other serpants.
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    Re: What the Hell produced that Soul?

    Post by dancash1808 on Thu Jun 14, 2012 8:32 pm

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TqoYaiEHMvg only two? Hrm... there are 10 there. which I think implies more. also kaathe and frampt are all made up despite their apparent philosophical differences.
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    Re: What the Hell produced that Soul?

    Post by Madara on Thu Jun 14, 2012 8:54 pm

    dancash1808 wrote:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TqoYaiEHMvg only two? Hrm... there are 10 there. which I think implies more. also kaathe and frampt are all made up despite their apparent philosophical differences.
    Sorry, i can be really blind when i want to be silly Still i don't think that these serpants are capable of manipulating the Dragon Lord war.

    for future reference also, i don't think thats the evil ending silly both i feel were motivated by different parties which were both good and evil silly
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    Re: What the Hell produced that Soul?

    Post by dancash1808 on Thu Jun 14, 2012 9:07 pm

    Hence why I called it the non link the fire ending winking although I did say good guy bad guy with frampt and kaathe. but then they did appear more that way xD


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    Re: What the Hell produced that Soul?

    Post by Madara on Fri Jun 15, 2012 5:00 am

    dancash1808 wrote:Hence why I called it the non link the fire ending winking although I did say good guy bad guy with frampt and kaathe. but then they did appear more that way xD
    They are doing the good cop bad cop routine of which both are accurately effective.
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    Re: What the Hell produced that Soul?

    Post by Baldor Ostarv on Fri Jun 15, 2012 6:52 am

    The First Soul.

    Possibly (theoritical) the soul of the Old One merged with the Hero of the Nexus should he choose that particular ending. The world ended and was then reconstructed into the old crags where the dragons rose to power. The Lords found the First Soul and split it amongst themselves to then begin the War of Exterminitation against the Dragons.

    Or it's the Soul of the Dovahkiin.


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    Re: What the Hell produced that Soul?

    Post by Madara on Fri Jun 15, 2012 7:18 am

    Baldor Ostarv wrote:The First Soul.

    Possibly (theoritical) the soul of the Old One merged with the Hero of the Nexus should he choose that particular ending. The world ended and was then reconstructed into the old crags where the dragons rose to power. The Lords found the First Soul and split it amongst themselves to then begin the War of Exterminitation against the Dragons.

    Or it's the Soul of the Dovahkiin.
    I don't think that Dark Souls is linked to Demon Souls, not on a story level but on a political level. they were done by different publishers and hence to do something like that could get them sued since they don't have the right to demon souls silly
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    Re: What the Hell produced that Soul?

    Post by DoughGuy on Fri Jun 15, 2012 7:25 am

    There is no connction between demon and dark soul worlds just so everyone knows.


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    Re: What the Hell produced that Soul?

    Post by Madara on Fri Jun 15, 2012 8:46 am

    DoughGuy wrote:There is no connction between demon and dark soul worlds just so everyone knows.
    Exactly, either way that would be a bumber because i have yet to play demon souls silly
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    Re: What the Hell produced that Soul?

    Post by Shkar on Fri Jun 15, 2012 12:25 pm

    I'm surprised nobody else has pitched this idea.

    Souls are the essence of life itself. They exist in every living thing, even the "living dead". The Lords of Lordran found a soul in the first flame. A massive, all-powerful soul. A quarter of the soul each made a man a god, birthed every demon, and created humanity. Only one living thing could be powerful enough to have that soul. The "Earth" itself.

    Looking back, it's probably this theory that made Acidic's "First Firekeeper" idea seem so strange to me...


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    Re: What the Hell produced that Soul?

    Post by FrEyes on Fri Jun 15, 2012 1:03 pm

    Baldor Ostarv wrote:The First Soul.

    Possibly (theoritical) the soul of the Old One merged with the Hero of the Nexus should he choose that particular ending. The world ended and was then reconstructed into the old crags where the dragons rose to power. The Lords found the First Soul and split it amongst themselves to then begin the War of Exterminitation against the Dragons.

    Or it's the Soul of the Dovahkiin.
    Definitely this!


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    Re: What the Hell produced that Soul?

    Post by Madara on Fri Jun 15, 2012 6:57 pm

    FrEyes wrote:
    Baldor Ostarv wrote:The First Soul.

    Possibly (theoritical) the soul of the Old One merged with the Hero of the Nexus should he choose that particular ending. The world ended and was then reconstructed into the old crags where the dragons rose to power. The Lords found the First Soul and split it amongst themselves to then begin the War of Exterminitation against the Dragons.

    Or it's the Soul of the Dovahkiin.
    Definitely this!
    Once again to point out, its impossible due to the fact that demon souls and dark souls are done by different publishers, hence doing so would lead to a lawsuit.
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    Re: What the Hell produced that Soul?

    Post by Baldor Ostarv on Sat Jun 16, 2012 1:08 am

    Madara wrote:
    FrEyes wrote:
    Baldor Ostarv wrote:The First Soul.

    Possibly (theoritical) the soul of the Old One merged with the Hero of the Nexus should he choose that particular ending. The world ended and was then reconstructed into the old crags where the dragons rose to power. The Lords found the First Soul and split it amongst themselves to then begin the War of Exterminitation against the Dragons.

    Or it's the Soul of the Dovahkiin.
    Definitely this!
    Once again to point out, its impossible due to the fact that demon souls and dark souls are done by different publishers, hence doing so would lead to a lawsuit.

    That hasn't stopped Patches from making an appearance.


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    Re: What the Hell produced that Soul?

    Post by Shkar on Sat Jun 16, 2012 1:18 am

    Baldor Ostarv wrote:
    Madara wrote:
    FrEyes wrote:
    Baldor Ostarv wrote:The First Soul.

    Possibly (theoritical) the soul of the Old One merged with the Hero of the Nexus should he choose that particular ending. The world ended and was then reconstructed into the old crags where the dragons rose to power. The Lords found the First Soul and split it amongst themselves to then begin the War of Exterminitation against the Dragons.

    Or it's the Soul of the Dovahkiin.
    Definitely this!
    Once again to point out, its impossible due to the fact that demon souls and dark souls are done by different publishers, hence doing so would lead to a lawsuit.

    That hasn't stopped Patches from making an appearance.

    It's confirmed that they just recycled the character. It's not the same Patches.


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    Re: What the Hell produced that Soul?

    Post by DoughGuy on Sat Jun 16, 2012 1:19 am

    SHKAR! WHy you always be stealing my posts man! silly


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    Re: What the Hell produced that Soul?

    Post by Baldor Ostarv on Sat Jun 16, 2012 1:20 am

    Coo.


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    Re: What the Hell produced that Soul?

    Post by Shkar on Sat Jun 16, 2012 1:20 am

    DoughGuy wrote:SHKAR! WHy you always be stealing my posts man! silly

    Trying to catch up to your rep!

    It's not going so well...


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    Re: What the Hell produced that Soul?

    Post by Baldor Ostarv on Sat Jun 16, 2012 1:27 am

    Shkar wrote:I'm surprised nobody else has pitched this idea.

    Souls are the essence of life itself. They exist in every living thing, even the "living dead". The Lords of Lordran found a soul in the first flame. A massive, all-powerful soul. A quarter of the soul each made a man a god, birthed every demon, and created humanity. Only one living thing could be powerful enough to have that soul. The "Earth" itself.

    Looking back, it's probably this theory that made Acidic's "First Firekeeper" idea seem so strange to me...

    Who would be the "First Firekeeper"?

    The Firesage Demon?


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    Re: What the Hell produced that Soul?

    Post by Shkar on Sat Jun 16, 2012 1:31 am

    Baldor Ostarv wrote:
    Shkar wrote:I'm surprised nobody else has pitched this idea.

    Souls are the essence of life itself. They exist in every living thing, even the "living dead". The Lords of Lordran found a soul in the first flame. A massive, all-powerful soul. A quarter of the soul each made a man a god, birthed every demon, and created humanity. Only one living thing could be powerful enough to have that soul. The "Earth" itself.

    Looking back, it's probably this theory that made Acidic's "First Firekeeper" idea seem so strange to me...

    Who would be the "First Firekeeper"?

    The Firesage Demon?

    Acidic's theory is that it was Velka. And I'm not saying it isn't possible, if not probable. Oh no, Acidic has some VERY good evidence. It just doesn't sit well with me. Go ahead and read his thread (it's stickied in the Archives) and make your own opinion.


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    Re: What the Hell produced that Soul?

    Post by Federally on Sat Jun 16, 2012 3:41 am

    Well the dragons were just part of the world, they were closely linked to the world. Much more closer to rocks then what we consider life. Some is lost in translation but Miyazaki's explanation of them, and why the everlasting dragon doesn't really give a *** if you cut his tail off, is very interesting.

    Point is, if the Dragons were just part of the planet I would gather this first soul similarly came from the planet/nature/evolution. It's simply a creation story, similar to many religions where God created man but no answer as to where exactly God came from God simply existed. In this case the Soul just simply existed and plays a role similar to a creator in similar stories by having its power spread to create life.


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    Re: What the Hell produced that Soul?

    Post by Reaperfan on Sat Jun 16, 2012 3:57 am

    Madara wrote:Once again to point out, its impossible due to the fact that demon souls and dark souls are done by different publishers, hence doing so would lead to a lawsuit.

    The publishers don't control much of the creative process, they just set certain boundaries beforehand when they decide to give the developer money. Dark Souls was originally planned by FROM, the developer, to be either a direct prequel or direct sequel to Demon's Souls. While legally they can't say the two universes are connected canonically since Sony owns the Demon's Souls IP and reusing it explicitly would be illegal, many elements of Dark Souls were initially planned as a direct connection to Demon's Souls. Because of this, people find these connecting themes and connect the two games, despite what FROM is legally required to say.

    Spoilers in this paragraph for those who care. Anyway, for instance, in Demon's Souls, we know that the land of the Giants behind the sixth archstone was wiped out by demons. In Dark Souls, we know that a war between Lordran and the demons created by the Chaos Flame occured, as well the fact that there's a place called "The Tomb of the Giants." Pure coincidence? Or King Jeremiah. In Dark Souls we learn that he is known as "The Legendary Exile" and that nobody knows where his vicious-looking golden robes came from. In Demon's Souls we know that the Elder of Latria was exiled long in the past, and returned wearing demonic golden robes. More coincidence?

    Just because FROM can't legally say they're canonically connected doesn't mean they didn't intend for them to be winking


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