Logan, Seath and New Londo discoveries

So I was meant to post a new section on my NPC thread tonight. however I'd rather play DkS :oops: . So instead I've posted a convo Tolvo and I had discussing a bit wider field. So what do you guys think.

[8:42:18 PM] Tolvo: If Crystals are focused souls that act as conduits for sorcery.
[8:42:28 PM] Tolvo: Where do these souls come from?
[8:42:50 PM] Tolvo: As they seem to have no relation to the souls of hollows and others.
[8:43:04 PM] Tolvo: Are sorceries, instead of energy of others, energy of one's own soul?
[8:43:12 PM] Tolvo: Which asks, shouldn't sorcerers have the largest souls of any?
[8:43:19 PM] Tolvo: What is manipulated, what is soul energy?
[8:43:35 PM] Tolvo: How does Logan experiment with this energy?
[8:43:38 PM] Tolvo: What is the cost of using it?
[8:45:19 PM] Tolvo: As well, why would Logan use a Scimitar?
[8:45:21 PM] Adam "The DoughGuy": Why did magical theory 201 die?
[8:45:29 PM] Tolvo: Because I wasn't around.
[8:51:02 PM] Adam "The DoughGuy": You can link his scimitar to the wanderer set I think
[8:51:54 PM] Adam "The DoughGuy": Logan is a seeker, he;s just a wanderer with a goal
[8:52:35 PM] Tolvo: Here is a good qeustion, why would Logan want to be like Seath?
[8:52:55 PM] Adam "The DoughGuy": Ah, immortality and powerful sorcery
[8:53:07 PM] Adam "The DoughGuy": Infinite time to reserach more sorcery
[8:53:08 PM] Tolvo: Is that something a scholar would want?
[8:53:13 PM] Tolvo: Power?
[8:53:25 PM] Adam "The DoughGuy": Is he really just a scholar?
[8:53:35 PM] Tolvo: Logan's intentions don't seem as simple as originally thought.
[8:53:52 PM] Tolvo: A Scholar would not focus entirely on offensive magic.
[8:54:03 PM] Tolvo: Note, everything Logan creates is offensive, or has combat uses.
[8:54:17 PM] Adam "The DoughGuy": lol just let me find thw uote I just saw
[8:54:37 PM] Tolvo: "That's a nice fanny Logan has."
[8:54:44 PM] Adam "The DoughGuy": "The Vinhelm school may be a military trainer of sorts"
[8:55:09 PM] Adam "The DoughGuy": He was expellled from the order yet Griggs folllows him around.
[8:55:51 PM] Tolvo: Here is a good question also.
[8:55:56 PM] Adam "The DoughGuy": Heres a question, is he still "working" for the dragon school?
[8:55:58 PM] Tolvo: Why couldn't Logan get through Sen's?
[8:56:08 PM] Adam "The DoughGuy": ^Why couldnt griggs?
[8:56:19 PM] Adam "The DoughGuy": He had all of Logans spells, yet he also failed
[8:56:30 PM] Adam "The DoughGuy": What stops a mage in Sens?
[8:56:32 PM] Tolvo: It's odd.
[8:56:51 PM] Tolvo: Considering Griggs specializes in stealth magic.
[8:56:58 PM] Tolvo: Meaning he would have a higher chance of surviving anything.
[8:57:16 PM] Tolvo: As well every enemy in Sen's can easily be defeated by spells.
[8:57:22 PM] Tolvo: Not to mention why did they end up in cages?
[8:57:30 PM] Adam "The DoughGuy": Seath
[8:57:41 PM] Adam "The DoughGuy": The man serpents must be under him
[8:57:48 PM] Tolvo: What would Seath want fromo them.
[8:57:53 PM] Adam "The DoughGuy": Obviously Logan thought there was something in Sens that could help him
[8:57:56 PM] Tolvo: Unless the idea is to experiment with the Crystals.
[8:58:13 PM] Tolvo: Meaning, Sorcerers make for better test subjects for Seath.
[8:58:16 PM] Tolvo: For Crystals.
[8:58:23 PM] Tolvo: While physical creations work better on faith users.
[8:58:32 PM] Adam "The DoughGuy": Could their souls be more "malleable" into crystals?
[8:58:35 PM] Adam "The DoughGuy": Due to their exposure?
[8:58:44 PM] Tolvo: Or maybe it is that their souls are stronger.
[8:58:48 PM] Tolvo: So there is just more to work with.
[8:59:07 PM] Tolvo: Maybe Logan wanted to be a test subject? By then he wouldn't have escaped.
[8:59:44 PM] Adam "The DoughGuy": Yes, perhaps he made it to the golden fog but oculdnt get thorugh
[8:59:53 PM] Adam "The DoughGuy": so he got captured in the hopes he would be taken to Seath
[9:00:08 PM] Tolvo: As well he faced Seath and lost.
[9:00:12 PM] Tolvo: Which is interesting to note.
[9:00:18 PM] Tolvo: Another NPC actually fought one of the bosses.
[9:00:41 PM] Tolvo: Why would he want to kill Seath?
[9:01:47 PM] Adam "The DoughGuy": To take the crystal from him? To prevent him interfering with his own research? To find out his secrets? For the MLGS? Because he tried to bargain with Seath and failed?
[9:02:08 PM] Tolvo: Logan had access to Seath's archives.
[9:02:24 PM] Tolvo: He had access to his prison and other areas.
[9:02:28 PM] Tolvo: He had all the resources he wanted.
[9:02:41 PM] Adam "The DoughGuy": Did he? You only see him in the archives after his defeat.
[9:02:44 PM] Tolvo: And killing Seath would mean destroying the primordial crystal, thus shattering the hope of immortality.
[9:03:20 PM] Adam "The DoughGuy": Perhaps he went straight to Seath. try to get in on his research? rather than starting from scratch
[9:03:42 PM] Tolvo: So a failed confrontation.
[9:03:48 PM] Tolvo: Yet Logan knew he was immortal.
[9:03:55 PM] Tolvo: But he still tried to wound him in defense.
[9:04:06 PM] Tolvo: Though I suppose that can go with testing the matter of Seath's body.
[9:04:13 PM] Tolvo: It all just seems so, pecuiliar.
[9:04:26 PM] Tolvo: Killing Seath and Shattering the Crystal doesn't seem to be a problem to him.
[9:05:40 PM] Adam "The DoughGuy": And once again we find there is so much more to a NPC

Just don't post these too often, some very vulgar and adults jokes from the Skype Group don't belong on the forums haha. It's interesting to see how bad my spelling is at Six AM haha.

lol didnt plan to. Its only cause I was meant to post other stuff I thought they deserved a substitute.

You know...Why wouldn't Logan use a Crystal weapon?

If I remember rightly the ember is found near him.

Skype conversations? I want in!

Wait till you see the one Dough and I just had...We...Mainly I, might have figured out how New Londo was flooded. I'm awaiting his search though, to see if I'm a genius or a retard grasping at straws.

You're still a retard Tolvo, you're just one of those Idiot Savant types

Hmm, I forgot how to ride a bike, but I can recite every line from Star Wars a New Hope, so that's possible.

Oh and glad to see our Idiot Savant is posting again!

Wait until you see Dough post this conversation, then you'll be happy I might be leading us in an interesting direction. With Dough's help of course. But I claim all credit and royalties!

I now desperately want FexDS to change your title to 'Idiot Savant'

Every manner of fool and retardation has been discussed by others as a title for me haha.

Alright so basically Dough and I have reached an interesting idea. Through the mentioning of the floodgate, I noticed the idea of how New Londo was flooded. This came about from Dough's idea of the Swamp being flooded from New Londo. Now then how did the water get into New Londo? My anwswer, that hole in the ceiling? Obvious right? I imagine but here's something Dough discovered through my urging. That hole is located above the dome/tower with the stairs leading to the Abyss. Across from it in plain view of the hole, Ingward on top of the church. A man who had to kill many to save countless, possibly by creating that hole. How I'm not sure as magic is not entirely understood, but I would believe possibly the sealers combined themselves to destroy the ceiling. Now then if there was a lake above New Londo, it would have drained directly onto the Abyss flooding it, and New Londo. Now it could be believed that the Floodgate is actually just a gate. But, it opens outwards. When you build a gate if you want to reinforce it you make it so the enemy has to push it open, meaning you can apply more force against them from your side. If the gate was supposed to protect the valley, why would it be opened from New Londo? Now we haven't reached much on this but I believe there was a waterway already through New Londo, as there is mostly soil at the bottom with stairs that lead to it. That is common for architecture around water, you build stairs leading in so any who enter it can easily get out. But you don't actually cover the ground, as there is no reason to. If it was merely all city, the floor around would have been stone as well yet it isn't. Not to mention this would explain some of the destruction better, as a lot of it came from above if you pay attention to the ruins, rather than from any side. most of the roofs are damaged with the walls leading towards the abyss heavily damaged. If I missed anything Dough, just let me know.

Isn't there a sunken ship on the gate side of town?

Are you sure about this Fed? Because if you are right...Oh boy, I get to toot my own Horn a lot!

I'm moderately sure. I swear you can see a sunken ship from the areas near the church the Sealer is on. May be something else but I swear it is.

The only issue with the waterway idea in new londo is the valley. The bridge is too narrow to have been a viable canal which means it's newer than everything else or the new londo water dumped uselessly into a valley. There also wouldn't be much need for the well so close since any water from that wouldn't be any cleaner than their waterway. The elevation of the dome and walkway to it does seem to suggest there could have been water at the bottom. This, combined with the location imply reverence so water might have been used there like fountains or the mirror pool at the Washington monument. The purpose in that case could be decoration or ceremonial. The elevator that leads directly to the lowest point would indicate that it was dry on occasion so he doors very well could be to drain water. Perhaps they would occasionally flood it like the colosseum for a ceremonial purpose related to the abyss.

Also, ignore this if I'm an idiot, but why is it so dark there? I mean, if it was the hometown of the Undead, wouldn't it be a bit brighter?

Tolvo wrote:Now it could be believed that the Floodgate is actually just a gate. But, it opens outwards. When you build a gate if you want to reinforce it you make it so the enemy has to push it open, meaning you can apply more force against them from your side. If the gate was supposed to protect the valley, why would it be opened from New Londo?

It's just a gate, but was used as a makeshift floodgate. It was most likely built to protect new londo from the valley (either from the drakes or the residents of the other collapsed city across the new londo greatbridge). There's also a mechanism to open the gate from the valley side (on top of the tower with the red tearstone ring), but it has been destroyed and only its base remains.

6We actually discussedit and the way it opens proves its not a defensive gate. If it was meant to protect the city it wouldnt open outwards otherwise the citizens couldnt barricade it. Also it is perfectly sealed, something a normal gate wouldnt be. The outisde turning mechanism just shows a) they had redundancy systems and b) Opening it from the outside may have been useful in some circumstances.

Both of those points fit cleanly with my thoughts. Ceremonial flooding baby!

Yet more evidence that supports my theory of a city under the Darkroot Basin...

Also, as for Logan, could it be possible to use the embers on MORE then just weapons? Seath and Logan both try to ptotect the Crystal Ember, and Ceaseless sits dangerously close to the Chaos Ember...