Great Sword Stagger

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    XuitusTheGreat
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    Great Sword Stagger

    Post by XuitusTheGreat on Wed Jun 13, 2012 3:47 pm

    according to weight, speed, etc claymore and moonlight sword SHOULD have the same stagger potential but I find the moonlight being a baws and staggering far more than claymore even if the claymore is sunlight buffed o-O. Anyone have any idea what the heck is up with this? I have a +15 claymore and a +5 moonlight but 90% of the time the moonlight staggers almost instantly against someone then later on the same person takes the claymore 2-3 hits o-o :|
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    Re: Great Sword Stagger

    Post by Reaperfan on Wed Jun 13, 2012 4:21 pm

    I don't know all the factors that go into when weapons start stunlocking, but I've heard that since the Moonlight Greatsword has only magic damage, it only factors in the opponents' magic defense, and since most players' magic defense is lower than their physical defense it starts stunning earlier as a result.

    Another thing a video on youtube has shown in quite a good amount of detail is that the Moonlight Greatsword actually has a slightly faster swing speed than other greatswords, so it's much more difficult to escape stunlocks from it since its' consecutive hits come more quickly.


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    Re: Great Sword Stagger

    Post by dancash1808 on Wed Jun 13, 2012 4:29 pm

    No faster than a claymore, they came up equal. however I dont know about the first part. so many unknowns.... this is the kind of thing I would have wanted in that strat guide!
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    Re: Great Sword Stagger

    Post by Shkar on Wed Jun 13, 2012 4:30 pm

    Reaperfan wrote:I don't know all the factors that go into when weapons start stunlocking, but I've heard that since the Moonlight Greatsword has only magic damage, it only factors in the opponents' magic defense, and since most players' magic defense is lower than their physical defense it starts stunning earlier as a result.

    Another thing a video on youtube has shown in quite a good amount of detail is that the Moonlight Greatsword actually has a slightly faster swing speed than other greatswords, so it's much more difficult to escape stunlocks from it since its' consecutive hits come more quickly.

    It's actually two groups. There are the lighter Greatswords (8 and lower) and the heavier ones (all the other ones).

    The distinction may not be 8, but if I remember correctly it was split 50-50.


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    Re: Great Sword Stagger

    Post by Reaperfan on Wed Jun 13, 2012 4:41 pm

    Shkar wrote:It's actually two groups. There are the lighter Greatswords (8 and lower) and the heavier ones (all the other ones).

    The distinction may not be 8, but if I remember correctly it was split 50-50.

    So in the EWGF video it was only faster because it was being compared to a MSGS? So many things to test :shock:


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    Re: Great Sword Stagger

    Post by dancash1808 on Wed Jun 13, 2012 4:51 pm

    There is a vid testing them all, as I recall great lord, moonlight, flamberge claymore and bastard were the fasts.


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    Re: Great Sword Stagger

    Post by JoeBroski09 on Wed Jun 13, 2012 4:58 pm

    I think the poise break for a MLGS is 2 more poise than all the other greatswords. If I remember correctly, it was the Stat Guru himself who said so. i make sure I don't get stunned by any GS by having my poise up to 58. I don't even know what exact poise the GS's break at, but I do know that I never get stunned since I haven't gotten hit by an Ultra weapon other than a BS. Oh, wait, a Zwei hit me when we traded blows. I killed them, they stunned me. I've pvped over 150 times, so I guess I don't remember ALL of them, but I don't get stunned, nor do I get hit often, as I get killed easily with no shield.


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    Re: Great Sword Stagger

    Post by WyrmHero on Wed Jun 13, 2012 5:36 pm

    @Joe the poise break for MLGS is the same like all greatswords (52 poise). Tested with 54 poise and it did not break it.


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    Re: Great Sword Stagger

    Post by JoeBroski09 on Wed Jun 13, 2012 5:37 pm

    Huh. I wonder who said that, then.. maybe rant or something something something... anyway, I guess Tattered Cloth Hood, Chest + Dark Leggings, Gauntlets = enough magic defense.

    Is the spell stagger all about magic defense?


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    Re: Great Sword Stagger

    Post by RagingDragon_69 on Wed Jun 13, 2012 6:12 pm

    I'm also pretty sure that the MLGS is an outlier. It has a poise break of 55, I did testing on it awhile ago when I was testing weapons. Most people shoot for the 53 poise breakpoint so MLGS will stunlock them with one hit if it's 2h. I actually think this has come up on the forums once already.

    Edit: Here is the topic http://soulswiki.forumsrpg.com/t3174p15-40-poise-is-it-worth-it#68450

    If i remember correctly there were about a dozen outliers. Mura was another one I believe. Handaxe hits for less poise than the rest in it's group as well. What we need is further testing.


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    Re: Great Sword Stagger

    Post by WyrmHero on Wed Jun 13, 2012 6:48 pm

    @Raging it did not break my 54 poise. I'm 100% sure, I did the test this week. First attack 2 handed and my toon did not got stunned.


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    Re: Great Sword Stagger

    Post by WyrmHero on Wed Jun 13, 2012 6:58 pm

    The theory that could be true is that there's an invisible poise gauge that if it's filled then your toon gets stunned. For example if the sword hits you and you resist the first hit, roll and get hit by another swing after some timr you'll get stunned. So it could be that the MLGS fills the gauge more than other greatswords.


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    Re: Great Sword Stagger

    Post by WyrmHero on Wed Jun 13, 2012 7:04 pm

    And I think this is true because I once stunlocked a full Havel's set with Havel's shield turtle with a GLGS. I kept hitting his shield over and over again and when I broke his guard I hit him again and he was stunned. Meaning his poise gauge was almost full at the time I broke his guard. But this needs further testing as I was so aggressive that maybe I didn't noticed.


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    Re: Great Sword Stagger

    Post by JoeBroski09 on Wed Jun 13, 2012 7:07 pm

    I believe all weapons do that. You get stun "points" on you, and they add up unless you let the bar empty. Rolling around getting the "phantom" sound is no bueno for any weapon, since it does half the stun points. So, three barely dodged GS swings will stun someone who has just enough poise to resist it.


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    Re: Great Sword Stagger

    Post by RagingDragon_69 on Wed Jun 13, 2012 7:18 pm

    Ya GLGS has a deadly stunlock. I think it was an outlier as well. I did most of my testing pre-patch so those numbers could have changed, making my tests invalid. But I have heard lost of people confirm MLGS has a higher poise breakpoint.

    And I do think that poise has a build up meter just like stamina and regens at rome rate. Maybe 10 poise per second or something and only if you aren't hit. Which is why it allows you take more hits if they are spaced out, but will still stunlock as you are being hit once every second. I actually think there is a link between a weapons weight and how much poise it takes to resist that hit. Sadly I only get a couple hours a week to play lately so I don't have time to do any testing. But someone should get on this. If no one does I will look into it in a couple weeks, once work slows down.


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