The Story Behind: How and Why

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    Shkar
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    Re: The Story Behind: How and Why

    Post by Shkar on Sun Jun 24, 2012 1:04 am

    DoughGuy wrote:Have you read the description of the titanite chunks? Also embers.

    Andre and/or Rickert recognize the embers, so most of them can be found outside of Lordran (barring some of the higher ones). All but the chunks and slabs say nothing about only being in Lordran, and logically you could use a bunch of shards instead of a slab.


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    Re: The Story Behind: How and Why

    Post by DoughGuy on Sun Jun 24, 2012 1:09 am

    He's there for the slabs, he wants to be one to use them, work on them.
    Embers may not be found elsewhere, the dark one certainly isnt. There could be legends about them though.


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    Re: The Story Behind: How and Why

    Post by Shkar on Sun Jun 24, 2012 1:13 am

    DoughGuy wrote:He's there for the slabs, he wants to be one to use them, work on them.
    Embers may not be found elsewhere, the dark one certainly isnt. There could be legends about them though.

    I seem to recall Andre actually saying he's seen one before, but I could be wrong.

    There's also the fact that Andre never reacts to the slabs and doesn't do anything with them. He just upgrades them to +11, and you use the slab (although I suppose you COULD make him use it. Secret for making Andre upgrade with all the slabs?!?)

    Anyway, I noticed that the slabs have writing on them in the dark souls language. If only we could decode it, who knows what we would find. Blacksmith Deity's name, maybe?!


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    Re: The Story Behind: How and Why

    Post by DoughGuy on Sun Jun 24, 2012 1:21 am

    They are kinda like tablets. Although they are meant to be MASSIVE considering the dmeons rose from them.
    Yeah I dont know why he doesnt react to the slabs.


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    Re: The Story Behind: How and Why

    Post by bloodpixel on Sun Jun 24, 2012 1:40 am

    I think the titanite slabs are pieces of poop. They came from unknown creatures and they shat out these slabs. Sometimes they wouldn't come out right and they would come out as chunks. If it got really bad, they came out as shards.


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    Re: The Story Behind: How and Why

    Post by bloodpixel on Sun Jun 24, 2012 1:40 am

    Double post...


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    Re: The Story Behind: How and Why

    Post by Shkar on Tue Jun 26, 2012 4:39 am

    It's time for another look at the topic of time and destiny in Lordran. Solaire says that time is jumbled, that it is in flux; he is only partially right.

    We've gone over destiny, why everything has to occur the same way (at least, relatively). Every event in the game happens on a specific course, although you can change the world a little bit. You can take Siegmeyer's quest line all the way to completion or you can kill him part way through, but his line is always at least started. If you take his quest line all the way to the end, you help him out in several places where he would otherwise be stuck. Nobody else comes around to help him if you don't, he doesn't find his own way, he just sits there.

    But why? What is it about us that makes all the NPC's worlds connect to ours so many times? It can't be sheer luck; if the worlds collided by sheer chance, we would see more situations where the NPC's DIDN'T need us. We would, say, see Solaire eating a sandwich, but we don't. We only see them at vital points, the most important parts of their journeys. The times where they need us the most. The times where they AFFECT us the most.

    Look at the end. What happens when you complete the game, ignoring the specific ending. You start back at the beginning of the game. You literally travel back in time to the beginning of your journey. You complete the game, you go back to the beginning. Why?! Why on earth would that happen?

    Time isn't in flux; it's in a loop. Someone or something isn't satisfied with the way the game takes place. The universe, destiny, or even time itself doesn't like how the story ends so it sends you back in time to try it again. It's only you. You're character keeps it's memories (spells and what-not), but nobody else remembers. Some great and/or almighty "being" has trapped you in a continuous loop in time until you can successfully complete the story in the pattern it wants.

    But why you? What is it that makes the character so important that such a massive event would be based around them? Why is it that all the NPC's worlds seem based around yours? Why is it that the bonfires keep us from dying but not everything else in the game (I'll explain later)? Why are you the only one who keeps their memories of the past loops?

    Something is deliberately manipulating the fabric of reality to manipulate the events of your life. It is obviously related to the flame; it doesn't send you back until you abandon it or link it. Yet the being doesn't care which you chooses, it wants some kind of alternative. It's powerful enough to send someone back in time without the gods or the serpents even knowing, yet it doesn't even seem to care about the Flame of Creation.

    But again, why you? Solaire links the flame in his world, the developers said that. The only possible alternative is that you are destined for something greater. A being of that power wouldn't be concerned about anything less then the absolute destruction of itself, it's home, or the universe (which may very well all be the same thing). The only possibility is a destiny of utmost importance; our characters are most likely supposed to save the universe.

    I guess Frampt wasn't lying about the whole "chosen one" thing...


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    Re: The Story Behind: How and Why

    Post by DoughGuy on Tue Jun 26, 2012 4:43 am

    Theoretically the other hollows do respawn at bonfires, however theyonly respawn when you use one. Thus tying their very life onto yours. The non sentient animals can simply reproduce more as time goes on and wander int the area.

    I like the idea, it means a third ending would prevent you going into NG+. The thing is was that what the designers had in mind? Or is it just a way of challenging you more? Is it a game mechanic, or a story one?


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    Re: The Story Behind: How and Why

    Post by Shkar on Tue Jun 26, 2012 4:51 am

    DoughGuy wrote:Theoretically the other hollows do respawn at bonfires, however theyonly respawn when you use one. Thus tying their very life onto yours. The non sentient animals can simply reproduce more as time goes on and wander int the area.

    I like the idea, it means a third ending would prevent you going into NG+. The thing is was that what the designers had in mind? Or is it just a way of challenging you more? Is it a game mechanic, or a story one?

    They can't respawn, they just can't. You kill other NPC's and they don't respawn. People have tried to say that their armor just gets battered beyond recognition, but that makes no sense. It is entirely different armor. We kill Havel himself, who has the strongest, thickest armor in existence and yet he doesn't respawn. The dead stay dead; it is the only possibility. The only exception is the character (although the actual deaths may be gameplay, not sure).

    Story wise, the only time your character is guaranteed to die is when Seath "kills" you (you DON'T get cursed when you die to him that first time!) and when you link the flame, which sends you back in time! Perhaps the whole point of the story and the resets is for you to try to find a way to link the flame WITHOUT dying! If you die, you get sent back. If the flame dies, you get sent back. But if you BOTH live, maybe you wouldn't get sent back!



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    Re: The Story Behind: How and Why

    Post by DoughGuy on Tue Jun 26, 2012 4:56 am

    They have to respawn, the normal hollows. There just arent enough otherwise. As for NPCs they can wonder away/who knows what bonfire they are linked to. You can assume firelink but you cant be sure.

    People have done no death runs before. Also you can skip the first Seath battle. So you dont have to die.


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    Re: The Story Behind: How and Why

    Post by Shkar on Tue Jun 26, 2012 5:02 am

    DoughGuy wrote:They have to respawn, the normal hollows. There just arent enough otherwise. As for NPCs they can wonder away/who knows what bonfire they are linked to. You can assume firelink but you cant be sure.

    People have done no death runs before. Also you can skip the first Seath battle. So you dont have to die.

    Look around you! Literally the entire game is played in a massive city! That means a massive population of the undead! The hollows still show signs of intelligence, though minimal. The odds of them dispersing, whether by luck or by instinct, is rather decent.

    If the NPC's respawn as good as new, why do they fear death?


    As for the second part, that's what I was saying. I don't thikn Setah actually "kills" you during the first meeting (only for in-game purposes). I am guessing that dying to a regular mob is POSSIBLY just an in-game convenience for it to not start you at the very beginning.


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    Re: The Story Behind: How and Why

    Post by DoughGuy on Tue Jun 26, 2012 5:06 am

    Its been a long time, around 800 years since Lordran would've been abandoned. Consider the Berenike, Balder and countless other advernturers who wouldve been through it in that time, killing dozens of hollow each.
    They respawn but not like you, for many of them death will hollow them, thus "killing" them.

    Interesting theory.


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    Re: The Story Behind: How and Why

    Post by Shkar on Tue Jun 26, 2012 5:13 am

    DoughGuy wrote:Its been a long time, around 800 years since Lordran would've been abandoned. Consider the Berenike, Balder and countless other advernturers who wouldve been through it in that time, killing dozens of hollow each.
    They respawn but not like you, for many of them death will hollow them, thus "killing" them.

    Interesting theory.

    Even if they DO respawn and just go hollow and lose their armor and such, YOU don't. Something is STILL protecting you from the raw might of death.

    I bet Nito is pissed.


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    Re: The Story Behind: How and Why

    Post by DoughGuy on Tue Jun 26, 2012 5:18 am

    lol its in your mind. I subscribe to Acidic's cynaclism threory of holloing and by it as long as you can keep hope alive then you wont hollow.
    Then again Velka. ****. You could be right.


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    Re: The Story Behind: How and Why

    Post by Anchises on Tue Jun 26, 2012 11:12 am

    wow wow wow, bloodpixel, sorry this is off topic but what is your signature picture thing? Is that Artorias?


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    Re: The Story Behind: How and Why

    Post by Shkar on Tue Jun 26, 2012 3:22 pm

    DoughGuy wrote:lol its in your mind. I subscribe to Acidic's cynaclism threory of holloing and by it as long as you can keep hope alive then you wont hollow.
    Then again Velka. ****. You could be right.

    Either way, that whole point was just a topic to support your character being special. As I said, the part about you repsawning at a bonfire may just be a gameplay mechanic, and actually "dying" would reset you back at the asylum.

    Someone (I think Scarecrow) said in another thread that all the characters have tragic stories. That definitely fits with my theory. What could be more tragic then being forced to live through an awful experience of watching everyone around you fail, die, or go insane over and over again until you get it perfect?


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    Re: The Story Behind: How and Why

    Post by DoughGuy on Tue Jun 26, 2012 9:09 pm

    Yeah, you could be right. i completely frogot about Velka ut her influence could be keeping you alive.


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    Re: The Story Behind: How and Why

    Post by CaptanSpudsy on Wed Jun 27, 2012 10:05 am

    I wouldn't put it past Velka to do that, but despite her being a very powerful goddess, I doubt she has enough power to continually loop time. After all, Gwyn was supposed to have the most powerful soul, so only he could do that. Which I doubt.
    So there must be some ultra-powerful uber-source affecting all of DkS universe. Which means that the other lands would be looping in time as well.


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    Re: The Story Behind: How and Why

    Post by DoughGuy on Wed Jun 27, 2012 10:06 am

    What if Velka didnbt have a lord soul? What if she had the soul of the first firekeeper? The soul that started the first flame?


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    Re: The Story Behind: How and Why

    Post by skarekrow13 on Wed Jun 27, 2012 10:37 am

    For the time mechanic I shall reference the legendary Dark Tower series by Stephen King. In those seven books the hero is on a quest to remove a mad sorcerer for a tower that serves as a linchpin for all of existence. Kinda like Gwyn/First Flame is to Lordran. There's also other things holding everything together in the books but the idea is that there is an erosion of the linchpin and support mechanisms meaning everything is becoming "loose" so to speak. The main character is hinted to have been around for eons but is not himself that old, so there's differences in time like Dark Souls where things are all over the place. At the end he sort of achieves the goal but it's not perfect, the last book ends with the same wording as the first chapter of the first book except that this time he has an item with him that might make a difference.

    I think the time anomalies are similar to this theory in that everything is decaying. It's not just the buildings and people and creatures that are affected, time and light (Why is the Sun always in the same place, why are some areas dark despite the sun being out, etc.). As a result time does some strange things, including skipping like a record or CD over and over until conditions are perfect for the song to move on.

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    Re: The Story Behind: How and Why

    Post by Shkar on Wed Jun 27, 2012 2:11 pm

    CaptanSpudsy wrote:I wouldn't put it past Velka to do that, but despite her being a very powerful goddess, I doubt she has enough power to continually loop time. After all, Gwyn was supposed to have the most powerful soul, so only he could do that. Which I doubt.
    So there must be some ultra-powerful uber-source affecting all of DkS universe. Which means that the other lands would be looping in time as well.

    Not necessarily. THe entire "looping" process could be due to the the world being run by destiny, as I supported with evidence last page or so. Your character goes through the first game and doesn't complete destiny the way it was supposed to, so is sent back to do it over.

    If we assume destiny exists, then there is no cause and effect in dark souls. The universe is already decided, time isn't linear. It would be far more likely that instead of looping ALL of time, the PC is instead placed in a sort of "pocket dimension" that loops and where time runs much more quickly. Or perhaps you are "shoved up" a dimension, then pushed backwards in time before sinking back to the third dimension.

    Either way, it presents an alternative that doesn't rely on the entire universe freezing and repeating.


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    Re: The Story Behind: How and Why

    Post by Anchises on Wed Jun 27, 2012 7:55 pm

    I just want to know why Gary keeps ending up as the champion when I beat him every time I go through the elite four.


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    Re: The Story Behind: How and Why

    Post by Shkar on Wed Jun 27, 2012 10:37 pm

    I can't believe it was staring at us straight in the eye for so long! So many hints, too many to count and explain, yet there the whole time. And the final bit of proof was in the most unlikely of places all along! Yes indeed, if we are in a time link because the endings are not right then I have figured out what the ending MUST be, I have figured out why both endings are wrong morally, and I have figured out a deep logical puzzle of the story!

    The Key to the Depths was NOT just the key to the area, but the key to depths of the STORY! Behold:

    "Key opening the door from the lower Undead Burg to the Depths.
    Those banished from the Undead Burg eke out their existence in the Depths, a damp lair with no trace of sunlight. Nearly half of the Depths form a perilous flooded labyrinth."

    I have bolded the important part for your convenience, now just THINK of it! What do you need in order to banish someone? You need to be able to THINK! To act on your own ideas and opinions. You require the morality to determine what is right and is wrong and the rationality to determine what to do to enforce those beliefs. You need SENTIENCE! Yet the only inhabitants of the Undead Burg that we see are mindless hollows and a few insane merchants. A couple of insane, VALUABLE merchants who APPEAR to be hollow, and an entire CITY of hollows! The ONLY people who could banish people from the burg are the hollows.

    Hollows are banishing people, which means they have thought and morality and reason! They are "living", thinking, FEELING "humans"! Yet no matter which serpent you side with, Anastacia says that your actions will end the undead curse! The Dark Sign fades away and it's power is broken, which is good news for the uninfected humans but NOT for the entire CITIES full of the "mindless" hollows! There is only ONE result of the endings and it is this: complete and total GENOCIDE of an entire species. Whether you link the flame or let it die, the biggest result of your actions is the death of thousands of people.

    THAT is why both serpents are wrong. THAT is why both endings are morally "evil"! Time is being rewound again and again because our characters keep committing global genocide!


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    Re: The Story Behind: How and Why

    Post by DoughGuy on Wed Jun 27, 2012 10:41 pm

    You sound very much like Acidic at the start of that post.
    But hen look at it this way, one one hadn you're commiting global genocide. On the other you're allowing the conituation of the undead curse, dooming thousands to a life of torture, and being responsible for the hundreds of humans the hollows kill.


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    Re: The Story Behind: How and Why

    Post by Shkar on Wed Jun 27, 2012 10:51 pm

    DoughGuy wrote:You sound very much like Acidic at the start of that post.
    But hen look at it this way, one one hadn you're commiting global genocide. On the other you're allowing the conituation of the undead curse, dooming thousands to a life of torture, and being responsible for the hundreds of humans the hollows kill.

    We are never actually shown or hear about hollows killing any humans. So far as I can recall, none of the NPCs even mention non-hollows dying to hollows. Sure, some of them mention you going hollow when you attack them, but that has to be more of an insult or such, because we never see hollows actually leave their area or anything.

    The hollows you see in the asylum at the start are passive (the very first ones that is), right up until the Asylum Demon attacks you. Perhaps the hollows have some kind of hive mind and something about you disturbs or is threatening to them.


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