High DEX Bandit's Knife BS VS Rapier BS

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    High DEX Bandit's Knife BS VS Rapier BS

    Post by BindMind on Sun Jun 03, 2012 9:59 pm

    Hey guys. This is my first post to this forum, and after some lurking and researching, I found that this question needed answering.

    We all know the rapier is the hands-down champion in terms of elemental backstabs, but I noticed that the bandit's knife has A scaling with DEX while the rapier has a B scaling.

    If a player with 45 DEX were to use a Bandit's Knife to perform crits, would the scaling be enough to outperform the rapier?

    I ask this because I would like to make a DEX/INT caster with 45 DEX and INT, and am wondering if the bandit's knife might be more viable as a secondary BS weapon.


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    Re: High DEX Bandit's Knife BS VS Rapier BS

    Post by nemesismonkey on Sun Jun 03, 2012 10:04 pm

    No, rapier will out damage as rapiers have a hidden modifier that increase crit damage more then shown. You can see this increase even more so with a riposte.

    I do 1300~ damage with my bandits knife buffed with lighting blade on a riposte, 1100~ on a backstab.
    And 2000~ with my rapier with same buff with a riposte, 1300~ on a backstab.
    This is with hornet ring btw.
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    Re: High DEX Bandit's Knife BS VS Rapier BS

    Post by BindMind on Sun Jun 03, 2012 10:07 pm

    nemesismonkey wrote:No, rapier will out damage as rapiers have a hidden modifier that increase crit damage more then shown. You can see this increase even more so with a riposte.

    I do 1300~ damage with my bandits knife buffed with lighting blade on a riposte, 1100~ on a backstab.
    And 2000~ with my rapier with same buff with a riposte, 1300~ on a backstab.
    This is with hornet ring btw.

    I am well aware of the modifier. What I am wondering is whether or not this modifier is affected by base damage and/or scaling damage from a certain threshold.

    Is this on a high DEX toon with a +15 dit knife and rapier?


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    Re: High DEX Bandit's Knife BS VS Rapier BS

    Post by nemesismonkey on Sun Jun 03, 2012 10:13 pm

    Yes. It is. That probably accounts for part of the difference with my weapons as they are. Would need a way to test them at the same AR to see the actual difference. But with 45 dex, rapier has 60 more AR.


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    Re: High DEX Bandit's Knife BS VS Rapier BS

    Post by BindMind on Sun Jun 03, 2012 10:23 pm

    nemesismonkey wrote:Yes. It is. That probably accounts for part of the difference with my weapons as they are. Would need a way to test them at the same AR to see the actual difference. But with 45 dex, rapier has 60 more AR.

    Well that answers my initial question then. Thank-you for that. If anyone has a refuting statement I'd be happy to hear it.

    If I may ask, is there any benefit to using scaling rather than elemental in terms of crits? If so, how much?


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    Re: High DEX Bandit's Knife BS VS Rapier BS

    Post by DamageCK on Sun Jun 03, 2012 10:25 pm

    I'd go with rapier just because in the event that you can't get a BS or parry the Bandit Knife does piss poor damage. And consider Velka's rapier for the DEX/INT build. It's pretty dope.


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    Re: High DEX Bandit's Knife BS VS Rapier BS

    Post by DamageCK on Sun Jun 03, 2012 10:26 pm

    If you've got a DEX weapon on a DEX build, always go standard upgrade.


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    Re: High DEX Bandit's Knife BS VS Rapier BS

    Post by nemesismonkey on Sun Jun 03, 2012 10:29 pm

    BindMind wrote:
    nemesismonkey wrote:Yes. It is. That probably accounts for part of the difference with my weapons as they are. Would need a way to test them at the same AR to see the actual difference. But with 45 dex, rapier has 60 more AR.

    Well that answers my initial question then. Thank-you for that. If anyone has a refuting statement I'd be happy to hear it.

    If I may ask, is there any benefit to using scaling rather than elemental in terms of crits? If so, how much?
    I dont really see any reason to use one or the other. I just tested a chaos rapier and did 1600 damage with a riposte(with hornets). Still quite a lot. If the 70 point investment for the buf/scaling is worth it i think is up to you. As it is very similar. But the hornet could be blowing it up quite a bit.
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    Re: High DEX Bandit's Knife BS VS Rapier BS

    Post by Quarik on Sun Jun 03, 2012 10:32 pm

    BindMind wrote:
    nemesismonkey wrote:Yes. It is. That probably accounts for part of the difference with my weapons as they are. Would need a way to test them at the same AR to see the actual difference. But with 45 dex, rapier has 60 more AR.

    Well that answers my initial question then. Thank-you for that. If anyone has a refuting statement I'd be happy to hear it.

    If I may ask, is there any benefit to using scaling rather than elemental in terms of crits? If so, how much?

    Buffs. If you have faith, int, or even GP Resin, you seriously outdamage an elemental, especially if it's a two hit animation and the buff takes effect twice.


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    Re: High DEX Bandit's Knife BS VS Rapier BS

    Post by BindMind on Sun Jun 03, 2012 10:33 pm

    DamageCK wrote:I'd go with rapier just because in the event that you
    can't get a BS or parry the Bandit Knife does piss poor damage. And
    consider Velka's rapier for the DEX/INT build. It's pretty dope.

    I wouldn't use the rapier or the bandit knife as a primary. I'd definitely go for the Moonlight Greatsword.

    I
    looked into Velka's, and I can't tell if the crit damage would be
    better on a 16/45/45/8 build than the rapier. Does anyone know? If not,
    I'll probably end up trying it myself.


    nemesismonkey wrote:
    BindMind wrote:
    nemesismonkey wrote:Yes. It is. That probably accounts for part of the difference with my weapons as they are. Would need a way to test them at the same AR to see the actual difference. But with 45 dex, rapier has 60 more AR.

    Well that answers my initial question then. Thank-you for that. If anyone has a refuting statement I'd be happy to hear it.

    If I may ask, is there any benefit to using scaling rather than elemental in terms of crits? If so, how much?
    I dont really see any reason to use one or the other. I just tested a chaos rapier and did 1600 damage with a riposte(with hornets). Still quite a lot. If the 70 point investment for the buf/scaling is worth it i think is up to you. As it is very similar. But the hornet could be blowing it up quite a bit.

    Well, I wouldn't be doing the 16/45/45/8 just for the scaling, I'd be spellcasting of course big grin

    Quarik wrote:
    BindMind wrote:
    nemesismonkey wrote:Yes. It is.
    That probably accounts for part of the difference with my weapons as
    they are. Would need a way to test them at the same AR to see the
    actual difference. But with 45 dex, rapier has 60 more AR.

    Well that answers my initial question then. Thank-you for that. If anyone has a refuting statement I'd be happy to hear it.

    If I may ask, is there any benefit to using scaling rather than elemental in terms of crits? If so, how much?

    Buffs.
    If you have faith, int, or even GP Resin, you seriously outdamage an
    elemental, especially if it's a two hit animation and the buff takes
    effect twice.

    And with 45 dex, the buffing wouldn't even take a second.

    The weapon will be a secondary though, so I might riposite and quickly switch to my rapier. In that type of situation, where I can't buff, I'd like to know the damage difference.

    I'm really curious about Velka's damage now.


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    Re: High DEX Bandit's Knife BS VS Rapier BS

    Post by DamageCK on Sun Jun 03, 2012 11:53 pm

    On my mage build with 16 dex and 44 int, a hornet ring riposte on average does around 1400-1500 damage. If I had gone with dex/int, it'd be over 1600.


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    Re: High DEX Bandit's Knife BS VS Rapier BS

    Post by BindMind on Mon Jun 04, 2012 2:22 am

    DamageCK wrote:On my mage build with 16 dex and 44 int, a hornet ring riposte on average does around 1400-1500 damage. If I had gone with dex/int, it'd be over 1600.

    Sounds perfect. Will be giving this one a try happy


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    Re: High DEX Bandit's Knife BS VS Rapier BS

    Post by DamageCK on Mon Jun 04, 2012 2:40 am

    It's effin' bomb, dude. You'll love it.


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