High DEX Bandit's Knife BS VS Rapier BS

Hey guys. This is my first post to this forum, and after some lurking and researching, I found that this question needed answering.

We all know the rapier is the hands-down champion in terms of elemental backstabs, but I noticed that the bandit's knife has A scaling with DEX while the rapier has a B scaling.

If a player with 45 DEX were to use a Bandit's Knife to perform crits, would the scaling be enough to outperform the rapier?

I ask this because I would like to make a DEX/INT caster with 45 DEX and INT, and am wondering if the bandit's knife might be more viable as a secondary BS weapon.

No, rapier will out damage as rapiers have a hidden modifier that increase crit damage more then shown. You can see this increase even more so with a riposte.

I do 1300~ damage with my bandits knife buffed with lighting blade on a riposte, 1100~ on a backstab.
And 2000~ with my rapier with same buff with a riposte, 1300~ on a backstab.
This is with hornet ring btw.

nemesismonkey wrote:No, rapier will out damage as rapiers have a hidden modifier that increase crit damage more then shown. You can see this increase even more so with a riposte.

I do 1300~ damage with my bandits knife buffed with lighting blade on a riposte, 1100~ on a backstab.
And 2000~ with my rapier with same buff with a riposte, 1300~ on a backstab.
This is with hornet ring btw.

I am well aware of the modifier. What I am wondering is whether or not this modifier is affected by base damage and/or scaling damage from a certain threshold.

Is this on a high DEX toon with a +15 dit knife and rapier?

Yes. It is. That probably accounts for part of the difference with my weapons as they are. Would need a way to test them at the same AR to see the actual difference. But with 45 dex, rapier has 60 more AR.

nemesismonkey wrote:Yes. It is. That probably accounts for part of the difference with my weapons as they are. Would need a way to test them at the same AR to see the actual difference. But with 45 dex, rapier has 60 more AR.

Well that answers my initial question then. Thank-you for that. If anyone has a refuting statement I'd be happy to hear it.

If I may ask, is there any benefit to using scaling rather than elemental in terms of crits? If so, how much?

I'd go with rapier just because in the event that you can't get a BS or parry the Bandit Knife does piss poor damage. And consider Velka's rapier for the DEX/INT build. It's pretty dope.

If you've got a DEX weapon on a DEX build, always go standard upgrade.

BindMind wrote:

nemesismonkey wrote:Yes. It is. That probably accounts for part of the difference with my weapons as they are. Would need a way to test them at the same AR to see the actual difference. But with 45 dex, rapier has 60 more AR.

Well that answers my initial question then. Thank-you for that. If anyone has a refuting statement I'd be happy to hear it.

If I may ask, is there any benefit to using scaling rather than elemental in terms of crits? If so, how much?

I dont really see any reason to use one or the other. I just tested a chaos rapier and did 1600 damage with a riposte(with hornets). Still quite a lot. If the 70 point investment for the buf/scaling is worth it i think is up to you. As it is very similar. But the hornet could be blowing it up quite a bit.

BindMind wrote:

nemesismonkey wrote:Yes. It is. That probably accounts for part of the difference with my weapons as they are. Would need a way to test them at the same AR to see the actual difference. But with 45 dex, rapier has 60 more AR.

Well that answers my initial question then. Thank-you for that. If anyone has a refuting statement I'd be happy to hear it.

If I may ask, is there any benefit to using scaling rather than elemental in terms of crits? If so, how much?

Buffs. If you have faith, int, or even GP Resin, you seriously outdamage an elemental, especially if it's a two hit animation and the buff takes effect twice.

DamageCK wrote:I'd go with rapier just because in the event that you
can't get a BS or parry the Bandit Knife does piss poor damage. And
consider Velka's rapier for the DEX/INT build. It's pretty dope.

I wouldn't use the rapier or the bandit knife as a primary. I'd definitely go for the Moonlight Greatsword.

I
looked into Velka's, and I can't tell if the crit damage would be
better on a 16/45/45/8 build than the rapier. Does anyone know? If not,
I'll probably end up trying it myself.

nemesismonkey wrote:

BindMind wrote:

nemesismonkey wrote:Yes. It is. That probably accounts for part of the difference with my weapons as they are. Would need a way to test them at the same AR to see the actual difference. But with 45 dex, rapier has 60 more AR.

Well that answers my initial question then. Thank-you for that. If anyone has a refuting statement I'd be happy to hear it.

If I may ask, is there any benefit to using scaling rather than elemental in terms of crits? If so, how much?

I dont really see any reason to use one or the other. I just tested a chaos rapier and did 1600 damage with a riposte(with hornets). Still quite a lot. If the 70 point investment for the buf/scaling is worth it i think is up to you. As it is very similar. But the hornet could be blowing it up quite a bit.

Well, I wouldn't be doing the 16/45/45/8 just for the scaling, I'd be spellcasting of course

Quarik wrote:

BindMind wrote:

nemesismonkey wrote:Yes. It is.
That probably accounts for part of the difference with my weapons as
they are. Would need a way to test them at the same AR to see the
actual difference. But with 45 dex, rapier has 60 more AR.

Well that answers my initial question then. Thank-you for that. If anyone has a refuting statement I'd be happy to hear it.

If I may ask, is there any benefit to using scaling rather than elemental in terms of crits? If so, how much?

Buffs.
If you have faith, int, or even GP Resin, you seriously outdamage an
elemental, especially if it's a two hit animation and the buff takes
effect twice.

And with 45 dex, the buffing wouldn't even take a second.

The weapon will be a secondary though, so I might riposite and quickly switch to my rapier. In that type of situation, where I can't buff, I'd like to know the damage difference.

I'm really curious about Velka's damage now.

On my mage build with 16 dex and 44 int, a hornet ring riposte on average does around 1400-1500 damage. If I had gone with dex/int, it'd be over 1600.

DamageCK wrote:On my mage build with 16 dex and 44 int, a hornet ring riposte on average does around 1400-1500 damage. If I had gone with dex/int, it'd be over 1600.

Sounds perfect. Will be giving this one a try

It's effin' bomb, dude. You'll love it.