stunlocking and hit amounts

    Share
    avatar
    Delvanoc
    Obsessed
    Obsessed

    Posts : 347
    Reputation : 20
    Join date : 2012-03-17
    Age : 34
    Location : Florida

    stunlocking and hit amounts

    Post by Delvanoc on Wed May 30, 2012 2:51 pm

    Alright, so, once I stunlock somebody how many more hits do I get in before they come out of it? Is it poised based or poise is just there till you get stunlocked?


    _________________
    PSN: Delvanoc
    avatar
    cloudyeki
    Compulsory Poster
    Compulsory Poster

    Posts : 3685
    Reputation : 101
    Join date : 2012-03-19
    Age : 25
    Location : Cali

    Re: stunlocking and hit amounts

    Post by cloudyeki on Wed May 30, 2012 3:30 pm

    Depends on the weapon you use and if the guy is gonna try toggling out of it. UGS your only gonna get 2-3 hits tops, I think with the murakumo and greatswords you can keep them them locked till your out of stamina.

    On a side note Has anyone ever prolonged a lock by using a spell midlock? Like CSS or GC?


    _________________
    Spoiler:

    Props to BindMind for the sig!
    avatar
    Delvanoc
    Obsessed
    Obsessed

    Posts : 347
    Reputation : 20
    Join date : 2012-03-17
    Age : 34
    Location : Florida

    Re: stunlocking and hit amounts

    Post by Delvanoc on Wed May 30, 2012 3:35 pm

    A msgs. Reason for asking, got parried in mid stunlock after about two swings in. So, three swings, my fourth was parried. Not mad, mind you, was impressed. But led me to ask so I could keep it from happening again.


    _________________
    PSN: Delvanoc
    avatar
    Buggy Virus
    Insomniac
    Insomniac

    Posts : 1279
    Reputation : 37
    Join date : 2012-04-11
    Location : Firelink

    Re: stunlocking and hit amounts

    Post by Buggy Virus on Wed May 30, 2012 3:42 pm

    Depends on the speed of your sword.

    MLGS has an indefinite stunlock, although backstepping is effective at getting out of stunlock.


    _________________
    *Busy Drawing*
    Xbl: A Buggy Virus
    Whelp, now I have positive rep.
    Reputation : 30
    Positive votes received : 80
    Negative votes received : 74
    avatar
    DoughGuy
    Duke's Archivist
    Duke's Archivist

    Posts : 11862
    Reputation : 319
    Join date : 2012-02-29
    Age : 23
    Location : The Bakery of Souls, Sydney

    Re: stunlocking and hit amounts

    Post by DoughGuy on Wed May 30, 2012 9:14 pm

    SOmetimes they can do stuff in between the swings of an MSGS. You can flip out after the second or third hit sometimes.


    _________________
    There's more to them - Want to know why your favourite NPC is in lordran? Find out here.
    Farewell to my Noble Knights, while we lived we were mighty. May we meet again in the next game.
    The post that started the legend XD
    avatar
    Quarik
    Hollowed
    Hollowed

    Posts : 1755
    Reputation : 19
    Join date : 2012-03-26
    Location : New Mombasa

    Re: stunlocking and hit amounts

    Post by Quarik on Wed May 30, 2012 9:20 pm

    What buggy said. There's also a way to escape them, though I'm not too clear on what exactly it is.


    _________________
    avatar
    reim0027
    Moderator
    Moderator

    Posts : 6715
    Reputation : 381
    Join date : 2012-01-28

    Re: stunlocking and hit amounts

    Post by reim0027 on Wed May 30, 2012 9:38 pm

    The best way I know is to toggle your weapons (I prefer my left hand weapon) between swings.


    _________________


    PSN usernames: reim0027_2,   reim0027_3,  and reim0027_5.  Skype ID: reim0027  
    Tour of Lordran Soul Levels  //  Official Wiki Fight Club // Forest Invasion Soul Levels // Low Level Invasion Rules
    avatar
    roanispe
    Addicted
    Addicted

    Posts : 286
    Reputation : 82
    Join date : 2012-03-06
    Location : Gensōkyō

    Re: stunlocking and hit amounts

    Post by roanispe on Wed May 30, 2012 9:50 pm

    Here is a good place to post this chart:
    Spoiler:


    I don't know what Wikidork is, it isn't on the wikidot website. To see some text that isn't visible right click an choose view image.


    _________________
    Currently #6 in the SL51-100 Duels with a 75 Streak on Kagami_S00mika.
    If you would like a build, please send me a PM. I'll be glad to try to help make something to your specifications, and walk you through how to use it.
    Ever wonder why Pinwheel stole the power of Nito? How to use a Katana. DmC: Devil May Cry footage
    Chen is best 2hu:






    If my post was helpful, please click the little '+' next to it. My PSNid: roanispe, Kagami_S00mika
    avatar
    reim0027
    Moderator
    Moderator

    Posts : 6715
    Reputation : 381
    Join date : 2012-01-28

    Re: stunlocking and hit amounts

    Post by reim0027 on Wed May 30, 2012 10:01 pm

    Hmm. I thought it was 56 poise to avoid stunlocks from Greatswords.


    _________________


    PSN usernames: reim0027_2,   reim0027_3,  and reim0027_5.  Skype ID: reim0027  
    Tour of Lordran Soul Levels  //  Official Wiki Fight Club // Forest Invasion Soul Levels // Low Level Invasion Rules
    avatar
    roanispe
    Addicted
    Addicted

    Posts : 286
    Reputation : 82
    Join date : 2012-03-06
    Location : Gensōkyō

    Re: stunlocking and hit amounts

    Post by roanispe on Wed May 30, 2012 10:13 pm

    It is important to double check information yourself, but the charts I pick up tend to be mostly correct. I am not sure if it is 56 or 54 to avoid stunlock from Great-swords as most times I am using either 77 or 0 poise.

    The Video below from 2:55-6:52 will provide relevant information towards stunlocking and toggle escape. Especially for the MSGS.



    _________________
    Currently #6 in the SL51-100 Duels with a 75 Streak on Kagami_S00mika.
    If you would like a build, please send me a PM. I'll be glad to try to help make something to your specifications, and walk you through how to use it.
    Ever wonder why Pinwheel stole the power of Nito? How to use a Katana. DmC: Devil May Cry footage
    Chen is best 2hu:






    If my post was helpful, please click the little '+' next to it. My PSNid: roanispe, Kagami_S00mika
    avatar
    Delvanoc
    Obsessed
    Obsessed

    Posts : 347
    Reputation : 20
    Join date : 2012-03-17
    Age : 34
    Location : Florida

    Re: stunlocking and hit amounts

    Post by Delvanoc on Wed May 30, 2012 11:48 pm

    Thx roan, exactly what I was looking for. I +1 the wrong post, but the effect is the same. Mad bro hugs!


    _________________
    PSN: Delvanoc
    avatar
    BLA1NE
    Stat Guru
    Stat Guru

    Posts : 2631
    Reputation : 172
    Join date : 2012-01-17
    Location : Montreal

    Re: stunlocking and hit amounts

    Post by BLA1NE on Thu May 31, 2012 12:10 am

    I'm pretty sure the way poise works is like an invisible status-ailment meter. So, the same way as you build bleed, you build "stun-lock". Also the same way as bleed slowly drains if the meter isn't filled before you're bled, so will your stun-lock meter drain.

    Where it differs from the bleed meter, though, is once stun-lock is in effect (which is the question you asked). For this, I think it acts like the poison and toxic meter, where they deplete slowly while you're affected.

    I gathered these two observations just from experience, so they could be inaccurate. But what led me to believe that is, when you have enough poise to tank 1 hit (whatever it is) and you take that hit and roll away, if you take another hit soon enough you will be stun-locked. So if you only have enough poise to tank 1 hit, to be able to tank hits indefinitely, you need to wait long enough in between hits for your invisible meter to drain. Potentially, we could test how long this is... but it would be difficult!

    What I'm not so certain about, is how the meter drains once stun-lock is activated. If you take poison and toxic, for example, regardless of your resistance to those, once they're in effect, they last the same amount of time. So:

    - Does "stun-lock" go away like bleed, instantly?
    - Does it go away like poison and toxic, a fixed amount of time?
    - Or does it have its own formula that is determined by your poise or other stat?

    Also, how do we explain toggling-out of stun-lock? Either it's part of the explanation of how stun-lock works, or it's an actual glitch.

    Am I way off base, or does any of this sound plausible?


    _________________
    Blaine Incarnate
    avatar
    DoughGuy
    Duke's Archivist
    Duke's Archivist

    Posts : 11862
    Reputation : 319
    Join date : 2012-02-29
    Age : 23
    Location : The Bakery of Souls, Sydney

    Re: stunlocking and hit amounts

    Post by DoughGuy on Thu May 31, 2012 12:16 am

    It sounds plausible but I dont think we can test it. We'd need to be relly accurate with the time between swings and lag kinda prevents that.


    _________________
    There's more to them - Want to know why your favourite NPC is in lordran? Find out here.
    Farewell to my Noble Knights, while we lived we were mighty. May we meet again in the next game.
    The post that started the legend XD
    avatar
    Delvanoc
    Obsessed
    Obsessed

    Posts : 347
    Reputation : 20
    Join date : 2012-03-17
    Age : 34
    Location : Florida

    Re: stunlocking and hit amounts

    Post by Delvanoc on Thu May 31, 2012 12:33 am

    It sounds plausible to me. The guy never switched weapons, which leads me to believe its more so based on swing time. He had the aplit second to parry (I was constantly swinging (another lesson in pvp for me)). So he may have been hitting his parry constantly for that split second reaction. Which means, it isnt a build up, as much as instant like bleed. Atleast, from that experience.


    _________________
    PSN: Delvanoc
    avatar
    BLA1NE
    Stat Guru
    Stat Guru

    Posts : 2631
    Reputation : 172
    Join date : 2012-01-17
    Location : Montreal

    Re: stunlocking and hit amounts

    Post by BLA1NE on Thu May 31, 2012 12:48 am

    I lean more toward the gradual build-down, like poison and toxic. You say he parried you on the 3rd hit, so my guess is his poise didn't allow him to tank a hit, but it was enough to be free from stun-lock after 2 hits. He parried you on the 3rd, but I bet if he'd missed the parry he'd have been stun-locked for another 2 hits.

    I lean toward thinking that all poise is useful, whether it's at a break-point or not (the all-important 53 and 76). I think, if you have more than those amounts, it'll either allow you to tank more hits or, short of that, will reduce the amount of time required to drain the stun-lock meter in-between hits.

    Example:
    - You have 53 poise. You tank 1 Greatsword hit, roll away, then get hit again 2 seconds later and you're stun-locked. Your meter did not have enough time to drain.
    - You have 60 poise. You tank 1 Greatsword hit, roll away, then get hit again 2 seconds later and are not stun-locked. The GS hit filled less of your meter, therefore you were able to tank the 2nd hit without filling your meter. If you got hit a 3rd time 2 seconds later again, though, that time you'd be stun-locked.


    _________________
    Blaine Incarnate
    avatar
    reim0027
    Moderator
    Moderator

    Posts : 6715
    Reputation : 381
    Join date : 2012-01-28

    Re: stunlocking and hit amounts

    Post by reim0027 on Thu May 31, 2012 1:04 am

    BLA1NE, if you can figure out a way to test it, I'm down for helping.


    _________________


    PSN usernames: reim0027_2,   reim0027_3,  and reim0027_5.  Skype ID: reim0027  
    Tour of Lordran Soul Levels  //  Official Wiki Fight Club // Forest Invasion Soul Levels // Low Level Invasion Rules
    avatar
    Quarik
    Hollowed
    Hollowed

    Posts : 1755
    Reputation : 19
    Join date : 2012-03-26
    Location : New Mombasa

    Re: stunlocking and hit amounts

    Post by Quarik on Thu May 31, 2012 3:59 am

    roanispe wrote:Here is a good place to post this chart:
    Spoiler:


    I don't know what Wikidork is, it isn't on the wikidot website. To see some text that isn't visible right click an choose view image.

    Every weapon I know of except the MLGS functions as on that chart. It stops staggering at 56 poise, so that's all but necessary in the forest.


    _________________
    avatar
    BLA1NE
    Stat Guru
    Stat Guru

    Posts : 2631
    Reputation : 172
    Join date : 2012-01-17
    Location : Montreal

    Re: stunlocking and hit amounts

    Post by BLA1NE on Thu May 31, 2012 4:22 am

    Oh, here's another theory about how the stun-lock meter might work:

    You know when you've fully depleted your stamina meter, sometimes it takes longer for it to start filling again? It's like it goes in the negatives, and you have to wait for it to get back to 0 before it starts filling up again. An easy way to notice this is to deplete your meter using a dagger. The dagger takes so little stamina that the last attack will barely get your stamina bar into the negatives, so it starts to fill back up almost instantly. But now, try it with an ultra-greatsword; get your stamina bar almost empty, then do an R2 attack, and see how long it takes for your bar to start filling again.

    So here's my theory:

    Your "poise bar" is as long as your poise stat. Every weapon fills it with every hit accordingly to the chart. In between hits, the meter slowly drains, but fills back up more with each hit, and you're stun-locked when the weapon attacks exceed your meter. So, say you get hit by a greatsword and you have 53 poise: the first hit will fill your meter, but won't exceed it. Say you don't dodge but take the next hit; in between hits your "stun-lock count" (on the stun-lock meter, or poise bar, whatever we want to call it!) may have dropped down to 50, but the next hit shoots it up to 103. Now you're stun-locked for however long it takes for your meter to go down from 103 back to 53. (Edit: while stun-lock status is in effect, your opponent's attacks stop filling your meter, obviously, and it can only go down. Like when you're poisoned.)


    Would be hard to test, but it's a theory. Until we actually figure out how to test it, we can at least discuss it!


    @Reim:

    Thanks for offering! I'll get some sleep and see if my brain can think up some test when I'm more awake.


    _________________
    Blaine Incarnate
    avatar
    dancash1808
    Chosen Undead
    Chosen Undead

    Posts : 4318
    Reputation : 52
    Join date : 2012-03-19
    Age : 22

    Re: stunlocking and hit amounts

    Post by dancash1808 on Thu May 31, 2012 5:07 am

    I dont think that it works like that blaine.... Because the stagger seems to me to be pretty much the same length regardless of previous hits. I think it functions similarly to the bleed meter you get hit it triggers it cannot be built up more until the animation is over and then it empties if you get hit again it fills again.


    _________________
    "Quotes seem to be popular with you people"-Acidic cook
    You should all play league with me! twisted http://signup.leagueoflegends.com/?ref=506391218392b408980226
    avatar
    BLA1NE
    Stat Guru
    Stat Guru

    Posts : 2631
    Reputation : 172
    Join date : 2012-01-17
    Location : Montreal

    Re: stunlocking and hit amounts

    Post by BLA1NE on Thu May 31, 2012 12:07 pm

    Could be. But I just feel like there were times when I could get away after 1 hit, and others when I got locked for 3-4 hits. We'll just need some testing to shed some light into it.

    Would this work:

    1 player strafes while the other hits him (either spamming R1, or at roughly 1 or 2 seconds intervals, that way his stamina can refill and he can continue attacking indefinitely... or both! Would give us more info.). When the strafing player can't walk sideways anymore, it's because he's stun-locked. Simply record the number of hits it took to lock him, and how many free hits you get in on him while he's locked, until he can start strafing again. Ideally, keep attacking and get numbers for subsequent stun-locks (stamina will become an issue for spamming here, but with timed attacks this could be interesting); how many hits to stun-lock him again, and how many free hits?

    Repeat the process with different poise amount and different weapons, and optionally with different attack timing.

    Specific poise amounts I'd like to test:
    52 and 53
    75 and 76
    Max poise

    Weapons:
    A dagger
    A shortsword
    A greatsword
    An Ultra-greatsword

    (Optional) Timing:
    Spamming
    2 Second intervals (try to make it roughly consistent)


    I think that could get us some info... Specifically: we could see if, once stun-locked, daggers and ultra-greatswords have the same stun-lock time. Also, theoretically 52 and 75 poise should get stun-locked in 1 hit by a greatsword and ultra-greatsword, respectively. We'll know whether the stun-lock duration is the same when you were just barely stun-locked in 1 hit or whether you were thoroughly stun-locked in 2 by having the exact break-point amount of poise. And the different attack intervals would let us know a bit more about the draining of the meter if it takes more hits to stun-lock someone with the same amount of poise while attacking slower. This is a very approximate method, but I think it could possibly be useful.


    _________________
    Blaine Incarnate
    avatar
    dancash1808
    Chosen Undead
    Chosen Undead

    Posts : 4318
    Reputation : 52
    Join date : 2012-03-19
    Age : 22

    Re: stunlocking and hit amounts

    Post by dancash1808 on Thu May 31, 2012 7:59 pm

    Surely worth a try! you on xbox or ps3?

    and I always thought that the degree of stun depended on weapon upgrade path (so possibly damage, or damage type... maybe physical has perks after all!)
    and the speed of the weapon. also if your right at the edge of a weapons range you will be able to get away but in close you wont.


    _________________
    "Quotes seem to be popular with you people"-Acidic cook
    You should all play league with me! twisted http://signup.leagueoflegends.com/?ref=506391218392b408980226
    avatar
    reim0027
    Moderator
    Moderator

    Posts : 6715
    Reputation : 381
    Join date : 2012-01-28

    Re: stunlocking and hit amounts

    Post by reim0027 on Thu May 31, 2012 9:48 pm

    Let me know when you want to try this. I have a good selection of weapons and armor, if you need. We can even do it with different endurances to see if that has a role.


    _________________


    PSN usernames: reim0027_2,   reim0027_3,  and reim0027_5.  Skype ID: reim0027  
    Tour of Lordran Soul Levels  //  Official Wiki Fight Club // Forest Invasion Soul Levels // Low Level Invasion Rules
    avatar
    BLA1NE
    Stat Guru
    Stat Guru

    Posts : 2631
    Reputation : 172
    Join date : 2012-01-17
    Location : Montreal

    Re: stunlocking and hit amounts

    Post by BLA1NE on Fri Jun 01, 2012 4:02 am

    I don't know if I should be involved in the testing. I already know what I would infer from the results, and I have theories on the line, so it's possible I would unintentionally affect the results of the tests. Ideally it should be, you know, a blind study. happy


    _________________
    Blaine Incarnate
    avatar
    DoughGuy
    Duke's Archivist
    Duke's Archivist

    Posts : 11862
    Reputation : 319
    Join date : 2012-02-29
    Age : 23
    Location : The Bakery of Souls, Sydney

    Re: stunlocking and hit amounts

    Post by DoughGuy on Fri Jun 01, 2012 4:04 am

    i think we can rely on you to be objective. Plus just share your results around to let others critique them to make sure you werent biased.


    _________________
    There's more to them - Want to know why your favourite NPC is in lordran? Find out here.
    Farewell to my Noble Knights, while we lived we were mighty. May we meet again in the next game.
    The post that started the legend XD
    avatar
    reim0027
    Moderator
    Moderator

    Posts : 6715
    Reputation : 381
    Join date : 2012-01-28

    Re: stunlocking and hit amounts

    Post by reim0027 on Fri Jun 01, 2012 9:27 am

    BLA1NE's right. It's impossible to separate your preconceived notions. That's why all good scientific studies are double blinded.

    Well, we need another volunteer then and we can get testing going. This'll be a complicated one.


    _________________


    PSN usernames: reim0027_2,   reim0027_3,  and reim0027_5.  Skype ID: reim0027  
    Tour of Lordran Soul Levels  //  Official Wiki Fight Club // Forest Invasion Soul Levels // Low Level Invasion Rules

    Sponsored content

    Re: stunlocking and hit amounts

    Post by Sponsored content


      Current date/time is Fri Dec 15, 2017 6:50 pm