You know Solaire... right?

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    Wilkinson3424
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    Re: You know Solaire... right?

    Post by Wilkinson3424 on Thu May 31, 2012 7:17 pm

    The furtive pygmy claimed the dark soul. he is your ancestor, as said by kaathe:
    "Hmm… You are astonishing.
    The truth I shall share without sentiment.
    After the advent of fire, the ancient lords found the three souls.
    But your progenitor found a fourth, unique soul.
    The Dark Soul.
    Your ancestor claimed the Dark Soul and waited for Fire to subside.
    And soon, the flames did fade, and only Dark remained.
    Thus began the age of men, the Age of Dark.
    However…
    Lord Gwyn trembled at the Dark.
    Clinging to his Age of Fire, and in dire fear of humans,
    and the Dark Lord who would one day be born amongst them,
    Lord Gwyn resisted the course of nature.
    By sacrificing himself to link the fire, and commanding his children to shepherd the humans,
    Gwyn has blurred your past, to prevent the birth of the Dark Lord.
    I am the primordial serpent.
    I seek to right the wrongs of the past to discover our true Lord.
    But the other serpent, Frampt, lost his sense, and befriended Lord Gwyn.
    Undead warrior, we stand at the crossroad.
    Only I know the truth about your fate.
    You must destroy the fading Lord Gwyn, who has coddled Fire and resisted nature,
    and become the Fourth Lord, so that you may usher in the Age of Dark!"[i]


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    Re: You know Solaire... right?

    Post by IncrediblePlum on Sun Jun 03, 2012 2:56 pm

    Wow, didn't know this place existed, i guess i can kiss sleep and work goodbye for the the foreseeable future while i unravel these threads of time and space. but anyway,

    It may be a little too obvious or may just be a uniform thing, but check the broken sun statue, one part specifically looks like solaires helm but it seems to wield a spear of sorts....hmmm....hrmmmmm....oh-hoh didnt solaire say he was an adherant of the Lord of Sunlight, now if the Sun was inherited by the firstborn it would mean possibly that solaire had to have become a follower before the Sun was inherited as only gwyn is described as the lord of sunlight. Unless there is a differance between the Sunlight that is inherited from gwyn and the power he posseses from the souls. does he pass the sunlight before linking the fire? and is the (Sunlight Blade) Description basically the son returning the gift to his father upon his death? and if his father is dead, who is stripping him of the annals? Have the other gods left?

    OKAY TOTAL SPECULATION, since gwyndolin is the only actual diety left in anor londo, why would he need to create the illusion of gwynevere, if he knows who is he fooling, random undead trying to meet gwyn? O&S? why? why would they not know or be privy to what is happening to the gods? are they not the same race? is he fooling the painting guardians? they dont seem to care when the lights go out, the sentinals and demons however do point to the idea that everything from guards at anor londo, sens, bells, undead burg/parrish, that the whole point of the setup is to test the undead adventurers worthy to link the fire. if thats the case, when was this illusion created and sens built? When did the gods flee? who the F is Flame god Flann? Father of fire sorcery?.......and

    back to my bro solaire if all his equip is of his own creation, it just rings with me somehow when they say the son lost his deific status and was stripped of the annals. why include stripping him of the annals, maybe meaning his magic equip and his size doubling god power. (status and knowledge) witch is why I think his hollowing is appropriate end, his lines about the sun and the father seem tongue in cheek, but he seems to expect a negative reaction from the player in both the begining and by the alter, basically saying, yeah most people say i'm stupid, maybe i am. I could guess his "blinding" ambition to find/recover his own sun led him down the path he desired, much like many of the others, is their struggle for fulfillment. Patches tricks Vince and Nico who fail Reah, Reah fails her mission, Siegmeiyer runs out of adventures as his old life catches up with him, The crestfallen warrior just wants to go hollow in peace and finally goes in new londo a place of reastless sprits, Logan thinks he found the "naked" truth of the dragons imortality and promptly forgets everything else mumbling incoherantly, Ingward however actually completes his mission and never goes hollow, Griggs was only there for Logan, his surrepticousness (?) may tell he really isnt seeking fulfillment but doing his job or somesuch, laurentius fails to find the pyromancer in blighttown or even yet finds her and fails the training. now solaires equip being of his own making, the similarity of the design, his quest, and his seeming failure and fullfilment at the same time. All these characters that go hollow share that same duality. Dedication to fulfillment through suffering, but in all cases it seems they end up back where they started. No/Illusory sun status for sunbro, no more lands for Sig to adventure/Restricted by your daughter who wants you to stay put just found you), no more mission for reah companions dead and betrayed with no hope. Wow, im starting conspiracy theories now sorry bout the long first post.......but here i sit, in quite a pickle. weighing my thoughts so to speak. Hah Hahh Hah!

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    Re: You know Solaire... right?

    Post by SpecOps0 on Sun Jun 03, 2012 3:01 pm

    I think when he lost his powers... he shrunk to Human size, went back down to Lightning spear (instead of Sunlight spear), armor was gone and weapons (which is why Solaire made his own) and lost his memory somewhat.


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    Re: You know Solaire... right?

    Post by Ghadis_God on Mon Jun 04, 2012 1:13 am

    A lot has been made of the fact that Solaire's stuff was hand-painted, but it doesn't mean that he wasn't once the firstborn. After having his godhood stripped away, he likely painted over an ordinary suit of armor to feel closer to his original power. "Of Astora" could simply mean that he chose to live and fight for Astora after becoming mortal, and the quest for his "sun" seems to be a metaphor for him desiring a return to godhood.

    We also have to keep in mind his actual prowess in the game. Though if you fight him as an NPC he's somewhat weak, he becomes godly (pun intended) as a summoned phantom. This suggests that he regains part of his godly powers when fighting as a phantom; that the Gold Phantom form is a state closer, for him, to Godhood.

    Based on my own damage, I've noticed that Solaire gets stronger with each fight you summon him for. Though I've never fought together with him in the Kiln, i've seen him do ~500 points of damage with a 1h R1 against the Centipede Demon, which technically should be impossible using his sword, even +15 with max str and dex. (My +10 Divine Zwei with 30 Fai. was only hitting for 330 damage with a 1h R1; listed AR was 619.) I'm estimating he needed around 7-800 of raw phys. AR to do that much, only possible if he transcended the NPC stat system, which suggests that he is more than an ordinary knight.


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    Re: You know Solaire... right?

    Post by DoughGuy on Mon Jun 04, 2012 1:16 am

    ^Not neccesarily. In the NG+'s the summonable NPCs get a ton stronger, getting absurd amounts of health and such. It could just be they gave him that much damage to make him useful with his AI programming.
    Also some of you jump over her - http://soulswiki.forumsrpg.com/t6437-is-oscar-the-god-of-war


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    Re: You know Solaire... right?

    Post by Ghadis_God on Mon Jun 04, 2012 1:26 am

    I'm talking about NG, Dough, and even so, we can't just write things like this off as for gameplay convenience. Solaire is one of the few NPC's you can both fight and summon, my point focuses mainly on why he is so much stronger as a summon. It's not like my testing was meticulous, but he seems to be the only one to break the rules of the game with his damage in NG.


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    Re: You know Solaire... right?

    Post by DoughGuy on Mon Jun 04, 2012 1:28 am

    I was laso talking about NG. Have you actually fought him and seen his damage? Are yuo sure the damage was stacked? Including a second hit from you or him?


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    Re: You know Solaire... right?

    Post by Shkar on Mon Jun 04, 2012 2:00 am

    Ghadis_God wrote:I'm talking about NG, Dough, and even so, we can't just write things like this off as for gameplay convenience. Solaire is one of the few NPC's you can both fight and summon, my point focuses mainly on why he is so much stronger as a summon. It's not like my testing was meticulous, but he seems to be the only one to break the rules of the game with his damage in NG.

    Mildred is an absolute beast, considering her low level, humanity, and lack of armor. She can take WAY more of a beating then she should be able too.


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    Re: You know Solaire... right?

    Post by DoughGuy on Mon Jun 04, 2012 2:02 am

    Also despite having little mag res armour and no GMB Jeremiah takes no magic damage.


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    Re: You know Solaire... right?

    Post by Shkar on Mon Jun 04, 2012 2:09 am

    Now that I think about it, maybe the God of War was the Son of Chaos, AKA Ceaseless Discharge...

    I mean, Gwyn and the Izalith Witch WOULD have known each other...


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    Re: You know Solaire... right?

    Post by Yukon on Mon Jun 04, 2012 2:11 am

    Wouldn't that be intra-species though? I don't think the witches and gwyn were of the same species. Not to say that would stop them.. but ew.



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    Re: You know Solaire... right?

    Post by DoughGuy on Mon Jun 04, 2012 2:13 am

    I dont like it. It doesnt mesh with the other stuff we know about him.


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    Re: You know Solaire... right?

    Post by Wilkinson3424 on Mon Jun 04, 2012 2:14 am

    Yukon wrote:Wouldn't that be intra-species though? I don't think the witches and gwyn were of the same species. Not to say that would stop them.. but ew.

    yes they are... but they turned into spider things after the chaos incedent.


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    Re: You know Solaire... right?

    Post by Shkar on Mon Jun 04, 2012 2:15 am

    Yukon wrote:Wouldn't that be intra-species though? I don't think the witches and gwyn were of the same species. Not to say that would stop them.. but ew.


    It was actually more of a joke then anything, but I will argue it anyway!

    Too be frank, the idea of their being two separate races that are practically the same thing during the time of the dragons strikes me as peculiar. Both are seen to have incredible powers and outrageous lifespans, as well as appearing mostly "human".

    There is little evidence to support the witches being a different race then the gods, although I stand by my conclusion of Izalith as a whole being a reference to the traditional fantasy dwarves.


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    Re: You know Solaire... right?

    Post by DoughGuy on Mon Jun 04, 2012 2:16 am

    Quelana is human sized and the witch is about twice her height. Thats even taller than Gwyn.


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    Re: You know Solaire... right?

    Post by Shkar on Mon Jun 04, 2012 2:17 am

    DoughGuy wrote:Quelana is human sized and the witch is about twice her height. Thats even taller than Gwyn.

    The Pygmy had to come from either of those races (assuming they ARE separate races), and we know for a fact he/she was smaller then the others.


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    Re: You know Solaire... right?

    Post by DoughGuy on Mon Jun 04, 2012 2:22 am

    Firekeepers can be human, Velka as the first firekeeper. God + human could equal a human sized ... product.


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    Re: You know Solaire... right?

    Post by Shkar on Mon Jun 04, 2012 2:24 am

    DoughGuy wrote:Firekeepers can be human, Velka as the first firekeeper. God + human could equal a human sized ... product.

    Pygmy is believed to be the "founder" of humans, no? That would mean that neither they, nor the sisters, could have been the child of a human + god relationship (I don't know which you were talking about).


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    Re: You know Solaire... right?

    Post by Ghadis_God on Mon Jun 04, 2012 2:24 am

    I realize about the NPCs taking very little damage, especially Mildred, and I really don't know about Jeremiah's incredible Mresist either. You're probably right that it's just something to make the game more feasible, it was just Solaire's damage that struck me as odd out of all the rest, especially since he downright killed Ornstein for me before I could take out the weaker Smough, even being super aggressive with a strong weapon on NG.


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    Re: You know Solaire... right?

    Post by Shkar on Mon Jun 04, 2012 2:25 am

    Ghadis_God wrote:I realize about the NPCs taking very little damage, especially Mildred, and I really don't know about Jeremiah's incredible Mresist either. You're probably right that it's just something to make the game more feasible, it was just Solaire's damage that struck me as odd out of all the rest, especially since he downright killed Ornstein for me before I could take out the weaker Smough, even being super aggressive with a strong weapon on NG.

    When I was going through NG the first time, Solair stepped through the door and got like 4 shot by Ornstein. I had to basically solo both O&S.


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    Re: You know Solaire... right?

    Post by XuitusTheGreat on Sat Jun 09, 2012 1:17 pm

    Maybe its just too easy an answer but the son was stripped of his power and made to live as a human, and as a former god he would want his power back. Also, Solaire doesn't use enchanted gear, he relies solely on his own strength, people seem to dismissing cause he throws bolts like his potential father o.o. just sayin o.o also also lol out of the npc summons he is way stronger, I'm in ng+++++ and good lord.....I WANTED to kill Smough first but ol' Solaire was having none of that lol
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    Re: You know Solaire... right?

    Post by Shkar on Sat Jun 09, 2012 1:57 pm

    XuitusTheGreat wrote:Maybe its just too easy an answer but the son was stripped of his power and made to live as a human, and as a former god he would want his power back. Also, Solaire doesn't use enchanted gear, he relies solely on his own strength, people seem to dismissing cause he throws bolts like his potential father o.o. just sayin o.o also also lol out of the npc summons he is way stronger, I'm in ng+++++ and good lord.....I WANTED to kill Smough first but ol' Solaire was having none of that lol

    In order:

    1. Almost none of the gear in the game is actually "enchanted" so far as we know. The exceptions would the Unique/Boss weapons, the "Special" head pieces, rings, and a few shields. For instance, Havel's gear is never said to be magical. Just really, REALLY heavy (Dragon Tooth is an exception).

    2. You can throw lightning bolts as well. That Solaire learns before you is no evidence, as Solaire doesn't even throw Sunlight Spears, just Lightning/Great Lightning.

    3. All the NPC's get tougher. Mildred can tank an INSANE amount of damage on NG+ and beyond. Solaire is exceptionally powerful because is summoned for the bosses that are considered exceptionally hard (The "double bosses", Centipede (a pain with the lava and such), and Gwyn). Any Phantom NPC can mess up enemies on the higher playthroughs. I personally saw Tarkus one-shot an invader.


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    Re: You know Solaire... right?

    Post by Sparda on Sat Jun 09, 2012 10:11 pm

    I am unsure if this has been mentioned before(I did check the exhaustive theories of the characters by a well known poster) but another argument that points to him being Gwyn's firstborn is when you first meet him. After he gives you the WSS, if you talk to him again, he metions that he'll stay there, and that the sun is "like that of a father. If only I were so grossly incandescent!" I believe this implies that he wants to emulate his father, and who else is the Lord of Sunlight but Gwyn. Through item descriptions, it said that Gwyn's firstborn was banished for being foolish. Could it be that he tried to link the fire, wanting to impress his father?

    Crazy theory here: if that is what happened, I believe that he was banished by Gwyn, reduced him to a state like an undead(perhaps even Demi-God). Here's another interesting I thought of. The Sunlight Blade miracle says that it was left by the firstborn of Gwyn. Now...who do we meet after the rotating bridge? Why, Solaire of course, chilling at a bonfire! Could it have been freshly left there by Solaire? I don't know guys, tell me what you think. It's crazy I know.


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    Re: You know Solaire... right?

    Post by DoughGuy on Sat Jun 09, 2012 10:17 pm

    The SLB was left at the tomb when the god of war orignally left.
    His powers were stripped from him by Gwyn, why would the sun want to replicatehis father? He is simply a sunbro who loves the sun.


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    Re: You know Solaire... right?

    Post by Sparda on Sat Jun 09, 2012 10:22 pm

    I guess I believe it's a father-son thing. Kids look up to their because they're perceived as strong and powerful. I believe he just wanted to prove himself, hence wanting and finally proving that he can handle his own "sun".

    EDIT: It's controversial, but there's a difference between emulate and replicate. I said emulate, which means to mimic or SURPASS the original, and replicate, which is to copy EXACTLY.


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