The gear, and why its seen like it is.

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    Tolvo
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    Re: The gear, and why its seen like it is.

    Post by Tolvo on Sun May 27, 2012 1:31 pm

    As well there are very deceptive weapons when it comes to spacing, more often then not long spears and halberds are hitting further than they appear to be.
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    Re: The gear, and why its seen like it is.

    Post by JoeBroski09 on Sun May 27, 2012 1:33 pm

    Tolvo wrote:As well there are very deceptive weapons when it comes to spacing, more often then not long spears and halberds are hitting further than they appear to be.
    I need to test this out, but in practice, i believe the original halberd has longer reach due to its moveset.


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    Re: The gear, and why its seen like it is.

    Post by cloudyeki on Sun May 27, 2012 1:37 pm

    All the halberds have a step forward and a changing grip during swings. If you look you'll notice your gripping the G.Halberd in the middle, but on a swing it shifts closer to the bottom section.


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    Re: The gear, and why its seen like it is.

    Post by reim0027 on Sun May 27, 2012 1:45 pm

    @Tolvo - that's what's so frustrating about the spears/halberd. They didn't hit you, on your screen, but you still take damage. It totally mess up your spacing, the unpredictability. :evil:


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    Tolvo
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    Re: The gear, and why its seen like it is.

    Post by Tolvo on Sun May 27, 2012 1:45 pm

    And then lag comes into the equation, and it all gets very annoying. sad
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    Re: The gear, and why its seen like it is.

    Post by WhatDoesThePendantDo? on Sun May 27, 2012 1:46 pm

    It's kind of like when you build up bleed despite not having been hit.

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    Re: The gear, and why its seen like it is.

    Post by Tolvo on Sun May 27, 2012 1:48 pm

    Yes, but that's why bleed dodges are possible, so there is usually a silver lining.
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    Re: The gear, and why its seen like it is.

    Post by cloudyeki on Sun May 27, 2012 1:48 pm

    From our perspective you guys may just be closer to us when they hit on our screens then you are on your screens. I've noticed it happen to me sometimes but if you just keep moving left or right you'll avoid most improper hits. That way only a pro who chooses his hits will land them.


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    Re: The gear, and why its seen like it is.

    Post by JoeBroski09 on Sun May 27, 2012 1:49 pm

    reim0027 wrote:@Tolvo - that's what's so frustrating about the spears/halberd. They didn't hit you, on your screen, but you still take damage. It totally mess up your spacing, the unpredictability. :evil:
    ive gotten damage with my halberd, and even i didnt see them close enough to get hit haha!


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    Re: The gear, and why its seen like it is.

    Post by JoeBroski09 on Sun May 27, 2012 1:50 pm

    cloudyeki wrote:From our perspective you guys may just be closer to us when they hit on our screens then you are on your screens. I've noticed it happen to me sometimes but if you just keep moving left or right you'll avoid most improper hits. That way only a pro who chooses his hits will land them.
    spamming long range halberd r1's against drake sword users works like a charm. Havent had any expert pvping, though. Just low lvl hosting in the forest


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    Re: The gear, and why its seen like it is.

    Post by Forum Pirate on Mon May 28, 2012 12:58 am

    @Tolvo, cool thanks

    @Serious, I'm not implying that none of these things need balancing, just trying to explain how they work, the reason for the stigma they possess, and what to do to counter them, often attempting to do this by comparing them to other things.

    On the ring side of min/maxing, thats really just being competitive. Everyone in halo fights for the shotgun, because it gives them an advantage over people without it. Same thing with ring setups. you don't have the rings giving you eqip weight, you're slow or fragile, neither is desirable most times, so they use rings to fix it in the interest of winning.

    Being competitive isn't bad or good, it just is, and some people will always (quite justifiably) do anything short of cheating to win.


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    Re: The gear, and why its seen like it is.

    Post by Forum Pirate on Mon May 28, 2012 1:37 am

    BTW, thats all I originally intended to do, except buffs (possibly spears, and I'm seriously wary of even touching backstabs) but I'm having trouble with them, I really can't see how its "OP" yet.

    So specific suggestions would be helpful, as would links to the posts where people complain about them. Not a requirement but it would save me a lot of time.

    Or should I embark on the massive undertaking of doing everything else, by catagory, with specific things (ie the mlgs) getting special mention.

    If its the second option I'll want help. Thats every spell type, all 5 poise ranges, all 4 armor weight ranges, all 14 (i think) weapon classes including shields. Thats a good 20+ hours of work.


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    Re: The gear, and why its seen like it is.

    Post by cloudyeki on Mon May 28, 2012 1:41 am

    I'd help with the pole weapons!


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    Re: The gear, and why its seen like it is.

    Post by JoeBroski09 on Mon May 28, 2012 1:46 am

    Id help with the.. eki already took halberds, really. Id help with pyromancy!


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    Re: The gear, and why its seen like it is.

    Post by DoughGuy on Mon May 28, 2012 1:48 am

    Damn you Cloud! But Forum I dont think anyone expects you to do everything, plus Acidic already did all the weapon categories [po/cons http://soulswiki.forumsrpg.com/t1166-weapons-and-magic-what-to-use


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    Re: The gear, and why its seen like it is.

    Post by cloudyeki on Mon May 28, 2012 1:48 am

    ARGH DAMN IT MY FIIIIRE!

    xD ahahahaha lol!


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    Re: The gear, and why its seen like it is.

    Post by Forum Pirate on Mon May 28, 2012 2:06 am

    DoughGuy wrote:Damn you Cloud! But Forum I dont think anyone expects you to do everything, plus Acidic already did all the weapon categories [po/cons http://soulswiki.forumsrpg.com/t1166-weapons-and-magic-what-to-use
    Forgot about that.

    I didn't think anyone expected anything, I'm asking because it could help. I got the major stuff i can find, that has an actual basis. (ie, stunlocking was ignored because there is no mechanical reason why stunlocking is under or overpowered)

    Though I'm not really sure how poise would work either, I'd do armor instead, I think.


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    Re: The gear, and why its seen like it is.

    Post by Forum Pirate on Mon May 28, 2012 2:16 am

    Updated op encouraging suggestions and questions. Hopefully I'll find something I missed.


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    Re: The gear, and why its seen like it is.

    Post by WorldSlayerPIKA on Tue May 29, 2012 9:07 am

    I read through this thread. Very objective, that’s great!



    I think the comparison of WOG with weapons does not work. Because a Spell does not need stamina. I think WOG Spamming is overpowered, because you can have more than 1 WOG Spell equipped! I admit it needs some time to gather more than 1 WOG Spell. But when it comes to fighting, a WOG Spammer can punish enemies who didn’t back up or missed the timing for an evasive roll. I have not enough experience, but I think that a WOG Spammer can kill anyone if he staggers only once. Its more difficult to bring someone off guard and kill him with a weapon (without BS) than with WOG Spamming.





    Min/Maxing is a product of BB Glitch. BB Glitch is already a “grey area”! But there will never be a common opinion about BB Glitch! It is marginal!





    Mister Forum Pirate: I know you won’t go into detail for Backstab (yet?). Backstab is my most common death! So I wrote my point of view.

    First of all: Backstab is a game mechanic, just like being able to wear armor. Player need to accept that. (I am in process of accepting this.... it’s hard… )

    I really don’t like BS because I want a fair fight. For me its not fair that one wins a fight due to one single, so called critical, Back Stab hit. True, Backstabbing has to do something with skill; one needs to get behind a player and Backstab him. But it also needs skill to hit an enemy without Backstab; one needs the correct timing, probably lure the enemy to faults!!! I think that a player should not be punished, respectively should not be killed, because of only one fault. Normally faults are striking and not hitting, hence being off guard for a moment or using too much stamina – But such a normal fault does usually not lead to an instant death. And then we know that players can specialize in doing solely Backstabs and therefore have pretty good chances to land backstabs and therefore have high succeed rate. While a “normal / not backstab focused” player usually fights longer and with more endurance than one searching, provoking, fishing for a backstab, such a player focuses only on one thing, while a “normal / not backstab focused” player has a greater variety of fighting which makes a fight, In my opinion, more interesting than only BS-War.


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    Re: The gear, and why its seen like it is.

    Post by Forum Pirate on Tue May 29, 2012 10:53 am

    Forum Pirate wrote:@ Eolan I don't care what your opinion on wog is.On your actual points, press r1 untill they die is an effect strategy with the claymore or moonlight greatsword. It easy to do, may well stun the enemy, and will kill most players with 1 full stamina bar combo. And stamina is an infinitely regenerating resource, where the number of times one may cast a spell is limited. In reference to my spear analogy you can block wog if you have the shield for the job, and its an excellent way of baiting the caster of using several at once to little effect, and at the edge of the demons spear or pikes range, parrying is neigh impossible and even should you succeed a ripost cannot be scored in time because you're to far away. So the standard roll, poke repeat strategy with those weapons can and does present less of an opportunity for punishment, while doing comprable damage.
    On wog, as I've already explained that.

    On bsing, its super complex and subjective, I'm not sure I want to kick that hornets nest. For now, I'l simply state that you started every argument with "I think", which while being the correct quantifier, is also not the objective view I wish to present. Further more, "fair" is a subjective term and from an objective standpoint, fair doesn't exist where any variables other than pure chance exist. Ie skill plays a part, so any fight, under any circumstances, is automatically unfair.

    I am glad you liked it though. Especially considering its taken aroumd 10 hours to do so far.


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    Re: The gear, and why its seen like it is.

    Post by Forum Pirate on Tue May 29, 2012 11:48 am

    Updated with the justifications I posted when any of the sections were questioned, hopfully it will prevent repeat questions and further perspective gathering, where necessary. Someone might catch something I overlooked.


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    Re: The gear, and why its seen like it is.

    Post by MsCherryBlossom on Tue May 29, 2012 12:06 pm

    From reading this im understanding you're saying people complained about the way people put their stats on their characters? (The min/maxing portion)

    The thread is good except the last bit where you said "anything less than cheating". Nothing from your thread is cheating since none of the things there is exploitable glitches or hacks. It's all legitimate, it's just people dislike some of the things.


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    Re: The gear, and why its seen like it is.

    Post by Forum Pirate on Tue May 29, 2012 12:12 pm

    Yeah. Did I make it sound like I meant those things are cheating? I don't, I can and do use all of them, some frequently, others less so.


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    Re: The gear, and why its seen like it is.

    Post by MsCherryBlossom on Tue May 29, 2012 12:22 pm

    You didn't make it seem like you said they were cheating but I personally would not have used cheating in general to describe it at all since it shouldn't be categorized in that area either imo. I personally would say low tactics than that, but again thats my personal opinion.


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    Re: The gear, and why its seen like it is.

    Post by User on Tue May 29, 2012 12:24 pm

    I don't think I fit as either Heavy, Medium, or Fast class of Player. Hm.

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