Lighning crossbow

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    galen666
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    Lighning crossbow

    Post by galen666 on Wed May 23, 2012 10:07 pm

    http://darksoulswiki.wikispaces.com/Heavy+Crossbow says "Note: When ascended to lightning this crossbow will not deal the lightning portion of the damage it specifies; making it essentially useless."

    Is this true?

    I don't want to upgrade my heavy crossbow if it is true because it's the only one in the game. I did test a light crossbow and it *does* deal lightning damage.

    A lightning light crossbow +0 does 48 or 52 damage on knights in Anor Londo using wood bolts or standard bolts, respectively. With the lightning light crossbow firing a lightning bolt the lightning effect is visible and it does 75 damage. By comparison, my heavy crossbow +10 does 96 damage with a wood bolt.


    Ideally I'd like to upgrade the heavy crossbow to lightning +5 but not if it doesn't work the same as the light crossbow.
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    Re: Lighning crossbow

    Post by BoilerFan8472 on Wed May 23, 2012 10:13 pm

    You said that you used a lightning bolt. Those inheritenly deal lightning damage from any crossbow...

    I would say no it doesn't do lighting damage.


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    Re: Lighning crossbow

    Post by RANT on Wed May 23, 2012 10:34 pm

    get it to +15 its better, i have a light and heavy crossbow both at +15 and theyre awesome for luring enemies to you.


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    Re: Lighning crossbow

    Post by Buggy Virus on Wed May 23, 2012 10:37 pm

    Go with heavy crossbow or avelyn +15 with heavy bolts. It's much easier to afford than 800 soul bolts.


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    Re: Lighning crossbow

    Post by BLA1NE on Wed May 23, 2012 10:50 pm

    I think there's still a lot of confusion surrounding elemental bow and crossbow upgrades... Or maybe it's just me!

    The best way to put these doubts to rest would be to test it this way:

    - Upgrade 2 Crossbows: 1 Regular, 1 Lightning

    - Find the upgrade level at which both deal the same amount of physical damage. So, say, Lightning +0, and Regular +6 (or whatever both end up being at, as long as they deal the same amount of physical damage, regardless of lightning damage).

    Then simply shoot both crossbows at the same test mobs, using physical damage bolts. If the Lightning Crossbow deals more damage, then that automatically means it is dealing lightning damage. If they deal the same amount of damage, test both crossbows with lightning bolts.


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    Re: Lighning crossbow

    Post by RANT on Wed May 23, 2012 10:55 pm

    i tested it on the anor londo sentinels and darkwraiths in new londo and the reg+15 beat the lightnig +5 every time, maybe i should test it with someone on an invader while naked and see which one does more damage.


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    Re: Lighning crossbow

    Post by BoilerFan8472 on Wed May 23, 2012 11:06 pm

    test it on the undead in firelink at the beginning


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    Re: Lighning crossbow

    Post by sparkly-twinkly-lizard on Wed May 23, 2012 11:10 pm

    elemental bows get the damage benefit, so crossbows should too, but frankly solid damage works better, the reasonm its hard to tell is because the visual effects are that of the bolt and not the crossbow, but the crossbow does add damages of all types. people have even made fire crossbows and used lightning bolts... which do nothing due to the 3 way defense split, but that very negation proves that elemental damage does apply to crossbows.


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    Re: Lighning crossbow

    Post by galen666 on Wed May 23, 2012 11:15 pm

    I have to get past the O&S fight to get Ingward to give me the key to lower the water so I can have access to the very large ember and upgrade to +15.

    The reason I need more damage is because I've failed the O&S fight and don't seem to be getting closer. I'm only SL 4 because I'm trying a playthrough where I don't level up at all, just to see how far I can get. I've gotten close in the O&S fight but it's the only one so far except that damn wolf that I haven't been able to get through with a little determination.

    I forgot however that you can un-ascend a weapon so I guess I could always upgrade it to lightning damage and then back it out later. I would be wasting some chunks which are kind of hard to find.
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    Re: Lighning crossbow

    Post by BLA1NE on Wed May 23, 2012 11:28 pm

    Ornstein is strong against Lightning. So if you're really having trouble, you could make your crossbow Fire +10 (go down to Demon Ruins to get the Large Flame Ember).


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    Re: Lighning crossbow

    Post by galen666 on Thu May 24, 2012 12:22 am

    I have the fire ember. I'm using a reinforced club upgraded to fire +7 for my primary weapon. It's the best I can wield with starting STR and DEX stats. It works really well, but with the lack of HPs I have trouble fighting in close in the second phase of this fight. I've been killing Ornstein first but super Smough always takes me out usually with that rush attack pushing his hammer across the floor.

    I'm considering switching to kill Smough first and then try the technique or hiding behind a pillar and shooting with my bow. Good point about the lighning defense of Ornstein.

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    Re: Lighning crossbow

    Post by galen666 on Thu May 24, 2012 1:25 am

    Yea it looks like the lightning upgrade is kind of worthless. I got the light crossbow to +3 and it still isn't doing as much damage as my heavy crossbow +10 with heavy bolts.

    I went ahead and tried the battle again but killed Smough first and sure enuff it was ridiculously easy. Ornstein stood in the middle of the room shooting lightning bolts at me that were just hitting a broken pillar while I shot the heavy crossbow into his navel 30 times. Not really a fair fight.
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    Re: Lighning crossbow

    Post by Shkar on Thu May 24, 2012 2:20 am

    As an aside, I tested a +15 and a +5 lightning Light Crossbow using Heavy and Lightning Bolts onboth on the basic zombies in teh Painted World.

    The double lightning only did around 10 extra damage (~220 instead of ~210), compared to the +15 with Heavy and that's on a mob with next to no resistance.

    However, even on those mobs you deal more damage using heavy on +15 (as opposed to lightning bolts) and lightning bolts on the lightning bow (as opposed to Heavy Bolts).


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    Re: Lighning crossbow

    Post by Bioraptor on Thu May 24, 2012 6:16 am

    galen666 wrote:I have the fire ember. I'm using a reinforced club upgraded to fire +7 for my primary weapon. It's the best I can wield with starting STR and DEX stats. It works really well, but with the lack of HPs I have trouble fighting in close in the second phase of this fight. I've been killing Ornstein first but super Smough always takes me out usually with that rush attack pushing his hammer across the floor.

    I'm considering switching to kill Smough first and then try the technique or hiding behind a pillar and shooting with my bow. Good point about the lightning defense of Ornstein.

    I would not switch,you will find the fight a lot harder or tricker.
    Keep the strategy you have now by killing Smough last.

    Your best trick fight him at the low SL you are is to use the pillars to your advantage.
    Put them between you and him,wait for him to give you a opening then grab it with one two blows then back out behind the pillar.
    Repeat this and do not try and rush the fight or be greedy trying to get more hits in and you will achieve the victory my friend.


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    Re: Lighning crossbow

    Post by SlakeMoth on Thu May 24, 2012 7:09 am

    As I understand it, upgrading any bow with elemental damage makes not the slightest difference. You only get elemental damage if you use fire arrows or lightning bolts.

    To be honest I think From dropped the ball over this. I've never understood why you are given the option to upgrade a bow with elemental damage if it doesn't work. The only reason I can think of is that it's a way of getting a trophy, which to my mind is a pointless exercise, as there are so many other weapons you can do this with and these weapons actually do what it says on the tin.

    What makes it even more annoying is that in Demons Souls you could upgrade your bow to a Lava Bow (fire element) and it added fire damage, so quite why From didn't do the same in Dark Souls is a mystery to me.

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    Re: Lighning crossbow

    Post by galen666 on Thu May 24, 2012 12:55 pm

    This thread helped me understand a couple things, that seem to be different from what I had read about bows (not crossbows).

    First, the lightning bolt does lightning damage when fired from a regular crossbow. I'm pretty sure this is different than flame arrows fired from a regular bow which would then do no flame damage at all. By the way, the damage increase seems pretty small compared to the best regular bolt (heavy bolts).

    Second, regular bolts fired from an elemental upgraded crossbow will do elemental damage. This is also different from bows (not crossbows). At fist it seemed like this was insignificant, but actually it depends a lot on the mob. I found that my lightning light crossbow +3 does significantly more damage to newbie mobs in firelink than my heavy crossbow +10, with both using wood bolts. The same damage increase isn't seen in Anor Londo on knights. I assume this is just the relative vulnerability.
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    Re: Lighning crossbow

    Post by SlakeMoth on Thu May 24, 2012 6:30 pm

    Perhaps my explanation wasn't clear enough, so I'll try again.

    Lightning bolts do lightning damage when fired from a regular crossbow.

    Fire arrows fired from a regular bow do fire damage.

    In both cases it's the ammunition (arrows or bolts) which add elemental damage, not the weapon itself.
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    Re: Lighning crossbow

    Post by Shkar on Thu May 24, 2012 6:46 pm

    SlakeMoth wrote:Perhaps my explanation wasn't clear enough, so I'll try again.

    Lightning bolts do lightning damage when fired from a regular crossbow.

    Fire arrows fired from a regular bow do fire damage.

    In both cases it's the ammunition (arrows or bolts) which add elemental damage, not the weapon itself.

    What's the evidence for this theory? I've never used bows much, so i can't immediately claim shenanigans, but I find it unlikely.


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    Re: Lighning crossbow

    Post by galen666 on Thu May 24, 2012 10:18 pm

    I recall reading about this when I was coming up with the best damage bow for my first toon. There are a few threads that say you must have a fire upgrade on a bow in order to do fire damage with fire arrows. Same thing for magic damage with moonlight arrows. For example, see http://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/606312-dark-souls/60635651

    The thread does seem to be wrong about crossbows because they definitely do elemental damage even without elemental bolts. I'm not so sure though about regular bows.

    I spun up my first toon for a quick test. I have two composite bows on this character:

    1. Fire composite bow 10 (FCS)
    2. Composite bow 15 (CS)

    I used either wooden arrows (WA) or fire arrows (FA) on knights in Anor Londo. The stats say that both wooden and fire arrows both do the same physical damage.

    FCS + WA = 91 damage
    FCS + FA = 134 damage
    CS + WA = 148 damage
    CS + FA = 154 damage

    I know these knights aren't the best target because they have resistances, but we can tell a couple things from the results.

    First, the fire arrows do produce some additional damage even if you don't have a fire upgrade on the bow (148 to 154). The increase is tiny however and definitely not worth the cost of the fire arrows.

    Second, the increase in damage by fire arrows is much more substantial if you have a fire upgrade on the bow (91 to 134).

    Third, maxing out a fire upgrade on the bow reduces its overall damage even if you use fire arrows.

    This test doesn't absolutely prove it, but it looks like you don't get any fire effect from a fire bow unless you use fire arrows. You definitely don't see any fire visual effect.

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    Re: Lighning crossbow

    Post by galen666 on Thu May 24, 2012 10:27 pm

    SlakeMoth wrote:
    In both cases it's the ammunition (arrows or bolts) which add elemental damage, not the weapon itself.

    This is correct about bows, but not correct about crossbows (at least the crossbow that I tested, the light crossbow).

    A light crossbow upgrades to lightning +3 does massive damage to newbie mobs in Firelink with normal bolts, way more damage than a heavy crossbow +10 even though the physical damage stats are less on the light crossbow (170 vs. 247).
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    Re: Lighning crossbow

    Post by Shkar on Fri May 25, 2012 2:42 am

    galen666 wrote:
    SlakeMoth wrote:
    In both cases it's the ammunition (arrows or bolts) which add elemental damage, not the weapon itself.

    This is correct about bows, but not correct about crossbows (at least the crossbow that I tested, the light crossbow).

    A light crossbow upgrades to lightning +3 does massive damage to newbie mobs in Firelink with normal bolts, way more damage than a heavy crossbow +10 even though the physical damage stats are less on the light crossbow (170 vs. 247).

    I tested a +15 and a +5 Lightning Light Crossbow on the basic zombies in the Painted World using Heavy Bolts and Lightning Bolts.

    The double lightning (+5 Lightning with Lightning bolts) did around 10 (~220 from ~210) more damage. This being said, they have minimal defense, implying that splitting the damage may lead to less damage on other mobs.

    In addition, using Lightning bolts on the +15 or Heavy Bolts on the +5 Lightning lead to lower damage then using the opposite bolt. SO if you have a +15 crossbow, use Heavy Bolts. If you have a lightning crossbow, use lightning bolts.


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    Re: Lighning crossbow

    Post by SlakeMoth on Fri May 25, 2012 2:12 pm

    Well you learn something new everyday, so apologies for getting at least some of it wrong. I admit that I have only used the Avelyn and never ordinary crossbows, so if the light crossbow does do elemental damage when upgraded, I might give it a try, although I find aiming with a crossbow a pain which is why I stick to bows.

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