Back stabbing. a deeper look.

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    Re: Back stabbing. a deeper look.

    Post by WhatDoesThePendantDo? on Fri May 18, 2012 7:23 am

    Plus, heavy strength weapons already boast a huge advantage in PvP, critical hits, ripostes and backstabs, are pretty much the only chance DEX weapons have to compete.

    Yes, I'm aware of the prevalence of lagstabs and how commonplace it is to be backstabbed from the front, yes, these are all huge annoyances, but such is the nature of the beast. I wish From could correctly fix this problem, but I'm no computer programmer/hacker so I wouldn't know to remedy this.

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    Re: Back stabbing. a deeper look.

    Post by Federally on Fri May 18, 2012 7:34 am

    You remedy it by removing broken mechanics. If you cannot properly implement something you don't allow it. This is why FPS games with 'bullet time' remove it in MP because they couldn't make it work. You don't include things that are broken, that's really all there is to it.


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    Re: Back stabbing. a deeper look.

    Post by WhatDoesThePendantDo? on Fri May 18, 2012 7:41 am

    But if you remove backstabs how would a fighter wielding a Dagger ever have a chance to deal any damage? By removing this mechanic you are essentially removing a large swath of the available weapons in the game because the player becomes forced to use a weapon with a high default AR whether he or she wants to or not.

    Speaking of which whenever I have a greatsword or a great hammer equipped I have never backstabbed any because, provided I can actually hit my opponent, after 3 2-handed swings they're squirming on the ground. So if you guys want to be honest about it, how about removing backstabs on weapons not geared toward critical hit damage? However, I suspect many of you would not agree to this solution.

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    Re: Back stabbing. a deeper look.

    Post by DoughGuy on Fri May 18, 2012 7:45 am

    ^ That was Bla1ne's idea. He brang up how it was ridiculous weapons larger than straight swords can grab you and hold you in place. Instead of BSing larger weapons should just get the counter damage bonus while smaller weapons get a BS albeit a slightly weaker one with more limitations.


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    Re: Back stabbing. a deeper look.

    Post by Federally on Fri May 18, 2012 7:45 am

    Read up, my idea was to adjust BS damage ans remove them from large weapons but preserve them for the small weapons geared towards them.


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    Re: Back stabbing. a deeper look.

    Post by WhatDoesThePendantDo? on Fri May 18, 2012 7:47 am

    Federally wrote:Read up, my idea was to adjust BS damage ans remove them from large weapons but preserve them for the small weapons geared towards them.

    I'm fine with that.
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    Re: Back stabbing. a deeper look.

    Post by billy_bayonet on Fri May 18, 2012 8:37 am

    maybe backstabs could quite simply half your current hp, so thers no way you can die from it, lets face it if you physicaly got stabbed inteh back youd be ***!, so the idea of halinf yoru hp could would, for a dex player you get the backstab, then switch to a weapon and hack away?


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    Re: Back stabbing. a deeper look.

    Post by Federally on Fri May 18, 2012 8:40 am

    I dunno the problem seems to be more how easy they are to pull off and how much the big weapons outperform the weapons supposedly specialized for crits. That and how OP they are at lower levels with a lightning weapon.


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    Re: Back stabbing. a deeper look.

    Post by billy_bayonet on Fri May 18, 2012 8:43 am

    i think there isnt really anyway of "fixing" this and making everyone happy maybe thats why FROM has not bothered, some players rely on backstabs in pvp, me i never use them even if they do to me i dont know why i just dont,


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    Re: Back stabbing. a deeper look.

    Post by Federally on Fri May 18, 2012 8:46 am

    Well they can address the outright broken parts. There are many examples of glitchy behavior in the BS mechanics, not wanting this fixed is the same as not wanting the BB glitch fixed or the old infinite souls glitch.


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    Re: Back stabbing. a deeper look.

    Post by mugenis4real on Fri May 18, 2012 8:52 am

    After crunching some numbers ive come to a conclusion. From is not going to change backstabbing, and as "broken" as it is, we really are just going to have to keep dealing with it.
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    Re: Back stabbing. a deeper look.

    Post by Serious_Much on Fri May 18, 2012 9:38 am

    mugenis4real wrote:After crunching some numbers ive come to a conclusion. From is not going to change backstabbing, and as "broken" as it is, we really are just going to have to keep dealing with it.

    lol, 'crunching numbers' silly

    But yeah, as much as I'd like it to be removed from PvP since lag causes abuse of the mechanic and makes it pretty broken, it's not going to be, as it's intented to be there as punishment for a bad mistake.

    FROM is not gonna change anything in the game to make our lives easier either, thats for certain.


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    Re: Back stabbing. a deeper look.

    Post by Federally on Fri May 18, 2012 9:44 am

    Serious_Much wrote:
    mugenis4real wrote:After crunching some numbers ive come to a conclusion. From is not going to change backstabbing, and as "broken" as it is, we really are just going to have to keep dealing with it.

    lol, 'crunching numbers' silly

    But yeah, as much as I'd like it to be removed from PvP since lag causes abuse of the mechanic and makes it pretty broken, it's not going to be, as it's intented to be there as punishment for a bad mistake.

    FROM is not gonna change anything in the game to make our lives easier either, thats for certain.

    Well then they should make BS harder to do with all weapons, except the crits specialists, in all game modes. Then life will be harder all around for everyone, which sounds like something FROM would do.


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    Re: Back stabbing. a deeper look.

    Post by mugenis4real on Fri May 18, 2012 9:59 am

    Serious_Much wrote:
    mugenis4real wrote:After crunching some numbers ive come to a conclusion. From is not going to change backstabbing, and as "broken" as it is, we really are just going to have to keep dealing with it.

    lol, 'crunching numbers' silly

    But yeah, as much as I'd like it to be removed from PvP since lag causes abuse of the mechanic and makes it pretty broken, it's not going to be, as it's intented to be there as punishment for a bad mistake.

    FROM is not gonna change anything in the game to make our lives easier either, thats for certain.
    Yea I pulled out my crayons then added together the total number of pages in all 7 Harry Potter books combined and divided by Dark Souls. My equation went like this:

    (Books+Wizards)÷Dark Souls= Backstabs Forever

    But my math could be off, can anyone confirm for me?
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    Re: Back stabbing. a deeper look.

    Post by RANT on Fri May 18, 2012 10:17 am

    imo it is a broken mechanic which is the reason i dont bs so that hopefully my opponent will not bs either, lag breaks the whole bs thing cause while it might look like a legit bs in your screen it looks like a lagstab in theirs and getting bs'd every time you fight is not fun,pt yourself on their shoes and tell me its fair or fun. the way most fights go now is everyone is just waiting to get that bs and win.


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    Re: Back stabbing. a deeper look.

    Post by Federally on Fri May 18, 2012 10:21 am

    Something that's happened quite frequently to me lately is BS's that trigger right as the opponent rolls away. Which results in me going through the getting BS'd animation without receiving any damage. What causes this?


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    Re: Back stabbing. a deeper look.

    Post by WhatDoesThePendantDo? on Fri May 18, 2012 10:46 am

    Federally wrote:Something that's happened quite frequently to me lately is BS's that trigger right as the opponent rolls away. Which results in me going through the getting BS'd animation without receiving any damage. What causes this?

    It's happened to me too. I've been "backstabbed" but haven't taken any damage from it. It's odd.
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    Re: Back stabbing. a deeper look.

    Post by Federally on Fri May 18, 2012 11:02 am

    Yeah the weirdest part is I'm the only one who enters the animation. They're far off rolling around


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    Re: Back stabbing. a deeper look.

    Post by Knight Alundil on Fri May 18, 2012 11:24 am

    Rynn wrote:Mugen, no. The punishment for missing your swing should be your opponent hitting you and getting counter damage, not backstabbing you. There is purely no occasion where it adds depth, that didn't already have a better and more fair mechanic in place instead. Counter Damage for missed swings, not a backstab.

    He was giving an opinion, one I wholeheartedly agree with.
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    Re: Back stabbing. a deeper look.

    Post by FruitPunchNinja on Fri May 18, 2012 11:40 am

    i personally dont think backstabs are "broken". i think they could be improved, but take them out completely no way. if you want no backstabs join fc. i would personally be very upset if from took backstabs out of the game. if they did that they might as well take all the other "OP" stuff out and leave us with only clubs and plank shields to duke it out.
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    Re: Back stabbing. a deeper look.

    Post by FruitPunchNinja on Fri May 18, 2012 11:43 am

    oh and federally what your describing sounds like you managed to get dmg on the other player right as they bs you(it has to be timed perfect). if you manage to cause dmg to the other player right as they bs you then the animation triggers,but you wont take any dmg.


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    Re: Back stabbing. a deeper look.

    Post by Knight Alundil on Fri May 18, 2012 11:43 am

    FruitPunchNinja wrote:i personally dont think backstabs are "broken". i think they could be improved, but take them out completely no way. if you want no backstabs join fc. i would personally be very upset if from took backstabs out of the game. if they did that they might as well take all the other "OP" stuff out and leave us with only clubs and plank shields to duke it out.

    Totally agree with this. I dont understand why people rant about how great this game is, but at the same time whine about the parts that are "Broken". My main character has no abilities that are considered OP, yet I duke it out against people who spam spells, BS fish and BKGA with hornets ring but do i complain? No, i just work out a way to beat them anyway. Seems like that's probably what From intended people to do. Y'know... play the game through challenges rather than say the challenges should be removed?

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    Re: Back stabbing. a deeper look.

    Post by Knight Alundil on Fri May 18, 2012 11:53 am

    Here's an example: What if someone is a rogue build? You know, invade someone, hide using chameleon spell, then pop out and backstab with a high crit weapon and OHKO. If backstab were removed from the game that would nerf the entire concept of that build. So thinking about this idea, how do backstabs not add depth to pvp?

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    Re: Back stabbing. a deeper look.

    Post by FruitPunchNinja on Fri May 18, 2012 11:57 am

    heres a great example imo. With dmb+3(which im sure a lot of you complaining about bs use) causes TONS of dmg and can easily get in laggy ghost dmg if your using a weapon like washingpole or bss. in a way it causes the same amount of dmg a bs can but you dont have to land crit dmg, you just have to land normal blows. so how is something like dmb that can 2-4 shot a lot of people without crit dmg any less broken then backstabs which can 1-2 shot but require you to land crit dmg(which some people are very pro at avoiding btw)


    overall i think removing something like backstabs all together would be a horrible idea,and if from did lose their minds and decide to do that i would most likely leave the series behind. cause once they do something like that ,to make it easier for new players,then what other adjustments would they make to the difficulty.
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    Re: Back stabbing. a deeper look.

    Post by RANT on Fri May 18, 2012 1:31 pm

    FruitPunchNinja wrote:heres a great example imo. With dmb+3(which im sure a lot of you complaining about bs use) causes TONS of dmg and can easily get in laggy ghost dmg if your using a weapon like washingpole or bss. in a way it causes the same amount of dmg a bs can but you dont have to land crit dmg, you just have to land normal blows. so how is something like dmb that can 2-4 shot a lot of people without crit dmg any less broken then backstabs which can 1-2 shot but require you to land crit dmg(which some people are very pro at avoiding btw)


    overall i think removing something like backstabs all together would be a horrible idea,and if from did lose their minds and decide to do that i would most likely leave the series behind. cause once they do something like that ,to make it easier for new players,then what other adjustments would they make to the difficulty.

    the problem with what you mentioned is the same as bs'ing, people abuse lag so its broken, specially with pole arms, how can i reach someone with a spear when theyre 10 feet away from me AND i know im not hitting them but the attack still connects, from should look at it closely and tell us how that's fair. backstabs are the worse becseu you can never know how laggy the other person is so even if you know how to counter it theyre still people that know they lag so they will abuse it and then everyone starts doing it which just ruins the game for a lot of people. but theres no way of fixing the lag issue so maybe have the bs do the same amount of damage as a reg attack since im pretty sure they wont take that out of the game.


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