The Followers of the Occult

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    Re: The Followers of the Occult

    Post by DoughGuy on Thu May 17, 2012 9:27 am

    I wonder did they succed in stealing it? The shield does say attempted. Hints at the attempt failing. Ergo the ember definetily could not be his power.


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    Re: The Followers of the Occult

    Post by Shkar on Thu May 17, 2012 9:31 am

    DoughGuy wrote:I wonder did they succed in stealing it? The shield does say attempted. Hints at the attempt failing. Ergo the ember definetily could not be his power.

    Not the ember itself. It's description implies it is part of some kind of magical ritual to do...something.

    Now that I think about it, what are the two things New Londo (original home of the Large Fire Ember) were known for? Healing Sorceries and Darkwraiths.
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    Re: The Followers of the Occult

    Post by WyrmHero on Thu May 17, 2012 8:13 pm

    I'm beginning to think the Occultists might be the Pinwheels. You see, the Occultists of New Londo used the Large Fire Ember for their ancient rites. I'm getting this from the item description and from Vamos dialogue.

    Large Flame Ember
    Ember required for weapon ascension. Large flame ember used in ancient rites.

    Vamos dialogue
    Hmph? Whay, that's…
    … An ember from New Londo…
    … And a fine ember it be…
    What do you say? Why not leave it with me?
    I'll give you a flame to feast your eyes upon.


    Another evidence is the masks said they stole the power of Nito, the Rite of Kindling. Other evidence is that they shoot fireballs and are necromancers, magicians who practice occult arts. Another evidence is that they drop white titanite chunks and even white slabs, used to create their occult weapons. What do you guys think? I'm sad to find this as I hate those masks but whatever, it's a good find.


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    Re: The Followers of the Occult

    Post by DoughGuy on Thu May 17, 2012 8:22 pm

    But why do they now serve him if they once tried to kill the gods? Wouldnt they be better off serving Seath or Pris?


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    Re: The Followers of the Occult

    Post by Shkar on Thu May 17, 2012 8:33 pm

    DoughGuy wrote:But why do they now serve him if they once tried to kill the gods? Wouldnt they be better off serving Seath or Pris?

    Nito is death itself in all but name. The dragon stones state that life is vulnerable, and the gods are no exception. Perhaps, unlike the traditional thoughs, the Souls series gods are NOT immortal. Maybe they started worshiping Nito so that they would "live" to see an age where the gods were dead, even if they didn't personally kill them.

    Or maybe Nito claimed their souls as punishment. Who knows.
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    Re: The Followers of the Occult

    Post by Chaos Spectre on Thu May 17, 2012 8:43 pm

    New Idea

    Mask of the Father: This mask, belonging to the valiant father.
    Mask of the Mother: This mask, belonging to the kindly mother.
    Mask of the Child: This mask, belonging to the naive child.

    A family, the father being Courageous, the mother being Gentle, and the child being gullible. Could this mean something? Possibly that the child ruined everything....but how young was the child, young enough to be a baby? Young enough to contain the bones needed to start life through a baby skeleton. Is pinwheel trying to stop those skeletons from aging, and is pinwheel able to hold nito back by sitting at his enterance?


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    Re: The Followers of the Occult

    Post by DoughGuy on Thu May 17, 2012 8:53 pm

    Gwyn - Bave hero
    Velka - Loving mother
    God of War - Destroyed the annals and extinguished the first flame.
    (Just how I see it)


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    Re: The Followers of the Occult

    Post by Shkar on Thu May 17, 2012 8:59 pm

    DoughGuy wrote:Gwyn - Bave hero
    Velka - Loving mother
    God of War - Destroyed the annals and extinguished the first flame.
    (Just how I see it)

    I personally don't see the "Goddess of Sin", who is believed to have cheated on Gwyn with Seath, as "kind and loving".

    I could be wrong of course, I just find it unlikely.
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    Re: The Followers of the Occult

    Post by Chaos Spectre on Thu May 17, 2012 9:01 pm

    DoughGuy wrote:Gwyn - Bave hero
    Velka - Loving mother
    God of War - Destroyed the annals and extinguished the first flame.
    (Just how I see it)

    You have a good idea there. lets see if we can match the masks with some character faces


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    Re: The Followers of the Occult

    Post by WyrmHero on Thu May 17, 2012 9:07 pm

    That's Acidic's theory, but it is massive speculation there and I want to keep it at a minimum. We can also say that Velka could be the leader of the Occultists, first because she is a goddess, second she works with secret rites and third she was a witch just like the occult magicians/necromancers (Pinwheels).

    Vow of Silence
    Secret rite of black-haired witch Velka.
    Prevents casting of magic within effect area.

    Velka, the Goddess of Sin, is a rogue deity,
    but she is versed in arts both new and old,
    and is considered to have a great range of
    influence even as gods are concerned.


    Both old and new arts, hum.... Also all her miracles have a purple aura, similar to the color of an occult weapon. Also after this I upgraded my Effigy Shield to fire upgrade, because it's just too cool.


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    Re: The Followers of the Occult

    Post by DoughGuy on Thu May 17, 2012 9:12 pm

    She could easily be linked to them through Pris but I don't think she is a true member. (I now its Acidic's but he asked me not to reference him without linking to his thread)


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    Re: The Followers of the Occult

    Post by WyrmHero on Thu May 17, 2012 9:30 pm

    Ok, so now we have to link the Occultists with WoW. I say they were a secret organization of WoW. After all, the Dark Ember is property of the Church.

    Ember required for weapon ascension.
    The church long hid the forbidden black ember,
    and no living blacksmith knows of it.

    Ascends +5 divine weapon to occult weapon.
    (occult weapons can be reinforced to +5)
    Occult weapons were used to hunt the gods,
    and are effective against their following and kin.


    So the Church sends Paladin Leeroy, then sends the Occultists to retrieve the Rite, then sends Reah as final option because everyone failed, well at least Pinwheel didn't give the Rite back to the Church. What do you guys think?


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    Re: The Followers of the Occult

    Post by DoughGuy on Thu May 17, 2012 9:35 pm

    We need to know more about the Allfather. Without that we cant confirm anything (as far as confirming speculation goes) about the WoW. I think Leeroy's actions, helping you kill the rogue pinwheel then trying to stop you killing Nito show the WoW supports Nito. So maybe they arent the occultists. After all the WoW wants to kindle the fire and Nito is a being of the fire.


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    Re: The Followers of the Occult

    Post by WyrmHero on Thu May 17, 2012 10:58 pm

    Dough remember the we can't trust in the succession of events because of the time distortion. I even made a mistake when I said that the Occultists took the Rite before or after Paladin Leeroy. We don't know what happened first. Just that Leeroy was the first undead of WoW. Do you agree with me?


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    Re: The Followers of the Occult

    Post by DoughGuy on Thu May 17, 2012 11:01 pm

    Aaagh of course. Yes I agree. The time thing is going to become annoying.


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    Re: The Followers of the Occult

    Post by WyrmHero on Thu May 17, 2012 11:36 pm

    So far we have:

    The Occultists might be Pinwheels.
    The Occultists successfully stole the power of Nito, the Rite of Kindling.

    Now trying to link the Occultists to WoW seems difficult, but we are close to it. There are some things that both share in common. So a big question arises, how the hell are the Occultists going to use the Rite of Kindling to kill the gods? LOL kindling bonfires?


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    Re: The Followers of the Occult

    Post by DoughGuy on Thu May 17, 2012 11:43 pm

    By preventing the kindling of bonfires they prevent humanity being sacrificed. The undead become less while man becomes more. ALso possibly the gods are weakened from the lack of humanity.


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    Re: The Followers of the Occult

    Post by DoughGuy on Thu May 17, 2012 11:44 pm

    OMG Wyrm can you ask Vageta to finish the game and link with the fire without the rite of kindling?


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    Re: The Followers of the Occult

    Post by Shkar on Fri May 18, 2012 12:02 am

    DoughGuy wrote:OMG Wyrm can you ask Vageta to finish the game and link with the fire without the rite of kindling?

    I'm sure it's been done thanks to the glitch to skip to the Kiln, although that is a clever idea happy


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    Re: The Followers of the Occult

    Post by WyrmHero on Fri May 18, 2012 2:17 am

    Dough, that theory makes sense. Also I wonder what Pinwheel is doing to that skeleton. The skeleton seems to have a drawing of horns on the head, similar to the Effigy Shield. Also I was in Painted World today fighting the toxic heads, and I saw them shooting fireballs, just like the Pinwheels. And when they explode they have toxic, similar to Nito. So my theory is that Painted World is like the prison of the Occultists made by the Church to keep everything in secret. Too much speculation though, not enough proof.....I'll try to think other things later, based on your theory of the opposition of kindling.


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    Re: The Followers of the Occult

    Post by DoughGuy on Fri May 18, 2012 5:19 am

    I like that connection with the painted world mutants. Perhaps they were successful.


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    Re: The Followers of the Occult

    Post by Chaos Spectre on Fri May 18, 2012 5:43 am

    All in all, Nito honestly seems like the good guy in Lordrans history. The Silent Leader


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    Re: The Followers of the Occult

    Post by DoughGuy on Fri May 18, 2012 5:47 am

    Since we are talking about him so much
    Nito, first of the dead
    Spoiler:
    Nito, one of the four lords, a being
    with his own lord soul, overseeing death and disease. Let's start
    with his origins. There are currently 2 main theories of how Nito was
    born. The first is that Velka, or whoever the first firekeeper is,
    created Nito to be the God of Death. The other is that the lord soul
    literally created him, drawing the bodies together and granting it a
    sentience. Now in the artbook there are 2 side by side pictures of
    Nito. One with blue eyes and a skeleton in the middle and a second
    with a red glow in the ventre and lacking the central
    skeleton.
    What this tells us is although Nito is a collectivemass of skeletons
    there is a central skeleton that can be truly classified as Nito while
    the erst is for protection. Therefore I consider it more likely that
    Nito was this single skeleton touched by the lord soul, given "life"
    and formed his body around himself. I will present more proof of this
    further in.

    Now onto his motivations. Nito is odd in that he is
    the leas active force in Lordran. WhileSeath is out conquering and the
    BoC is spreading demons around Nito is quite happy to it down in his
    tomb and let events transpire. Viral theorized Nito wished to create an
    age of the dead owever I do not think that is entirely true. There
    are 2 possible goals that nito has and they are tied to either of his
    beginnings.

    If Nito was created by Velka it is possible he is
    much like an puppet, that he only works when given orders. If so it
    means he will remain buried in lordran until his creator returns to give
    him a new goal to work for. This explain his lax attitude to the
    pinwheel stealing the rite and the lack of retribution for kiling him if
    you're in his covenant.

    Now if Nito created himself/the lord
    soul created him it is now different. Nito may not have a true
    sentience. The proof for this is in his servants. The minor
    necromancers animate small skeletons, driving them to kill the player
    then reviving them when they die. The pinwheels are theorized to
    control the giant skeletons. They cannot revive them but they irder
    them around. In the same way the lord soul/the central skeleton acts as
    the necromancer for Nito's body,
    animating and controlling it.
    Tolvo wrote:Who's
    to say what is done with the Lordvessel if you link the flame? What if
    his servants could get it back and revive him through that, or if he
    already lives on in them, sort of like how the dark soul lives on
    through humanity. Nito might be one smart cookie, having basically a
    situation in which no matter what he doesn't lose anything more than a
    mass of bodies.

    It could also be as you said, he just doesn't
    care about his own existence. Maybe he understands only a cause, but
    not identity. In that regard Nito might not actually be totally
    sentient, which is so bizarre it kind of fits if you ask me.

    In
    this case it is more likely that Nito is working towards his own
    agenda. Based off the infinitely spawning baby skeletons it can be seen
    that Nito wants to propogate the dead, creating millions. In this case
    its possible he was creating an age of the dead.


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    Re: The Followers of the Occult

    Post by DoughGuy on Fri May 18, 2012 9:23 am

    Just putting this here since New Londo is involved. Where the hell did those blue burning torches come from?


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    Re: The Followers of the Occult

    Post by demononspeed on Fri May 18, 2012 5:11 pm

    Velka's rapier has occult auxiliary. This may be evidence to support Velka being a supporter of the occultists. Does she only track sinners, or does she also punish them? If she punishes them (as I will assume because of the nature of karmic justice) maybe she believes the other gods have sinned and must be punished? Lot's of speculation, just my two cents.


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