Defeating Turtles

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    Defeating Turtles

    Post by Fusion on Sat Jan 28, 2012 2:47 am

    So I've been PvPing as a Forest Hunter at level 50 using a 2-handed BKGA. It's the only weapon I use and have upgraded so I'm limited to the weapon's moveset. It's very fun fighting against regular opponents, but what can be done against someone in full Havel's with either Greatshield of Artorias or Eagle Shield or just a stack of Stamina. Either I get in a lucky hit and they don't stagger or I bounce off their shield and meet my own demise.

    I'm not hellbent on staying at level 50 so if raising my Faith or some other method of overcoming these enemies is presented to me I will keep an open mind.
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    Re: Defeating Turtles

    Post by k0rruptid on Sat Jan 28, 2012 3:07 am

    maybe they are turtling because of the weapon you use? super quick, super damaging, easy to upgrade, good at stunning ect.

    did you really expect people to stand still and let you kill them?


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    Re: Defeating Turtles

    Post by Fusion on Sat Jan 28, 2012 3:12 am

    Not at all. But I'm wearing almost full Black Knight's unupgraded. I am the invader, these people already have full turtle set-ups. Designed to farm people like me. I was asking for advice, not to be reprimanded for my choice of weapon.
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    Re: Defeating Turtles

    Post by Scudman_Slayer on Sat Jan 28, 2012 3:28 am

    hmm maybe they skiped sif until they got to anor londo and got havel's armor?

    and they had a tank build (which pretty much explains turtles i mean tanks can't do much damage wise)

    still if they were farming they would be lvl 120 or above not lvl 50

    and some people would even say that you were grieving with lvl 50 and black knight greataxe invading at forest
    but i've seen much worse so i don't think its grieving at all...sort of


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    Re: Defeating Turtles

    Post by Glutebrah on Sat Jan 28, 2012 3:29 am

    offhand a shotel, dung pie, poison knifes, pivot backstabs.

    really your only options.

    dung pie is my personal favorite


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    Re: Defeating Turtles

    Post by Fusion on Sat Jan 28, 2012 3:33 am

    I haven't fought a single person who wasn't using HCSM, Full Havel's, CMW or WoG. The one unfortunate guy I did invade who was ~level 30 died to an NPC, I then messaged him, telling him how to farm the NPC's in the forest properly.

    I will definitely try Dung Pies in the future, thanks.
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    Re: Defeating Turtles

    Post by Glutebrah on Sat Jan 28, 2012 3:43 am

    Fusion wrote:I haven't fought a single person who wasn't using HCSM, Full Havel's, CMW or WoG. The one unfortunate guy I did invade who was ~level 30 died to an NPC, I then messaged him, telling him how to farm the NPC's in the forest properly.

    I will definitely try Dung Pies in the future, thanks.

    get an avelyn for people who use HCSM and blast them from a safe distance everytime they cast it. they will soon learn not to
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    Re: Defeating Turtles

    Post by Scudman_Slayer on Sat Jan 28, 2012 3:45 am

    or go to painted wolrd and get vow of silence and...done no more magic spamming on you when you're close to them so wail at'em


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    Re: Defeating Turtles

    Post by Fusion on Sat Jan 28, 2012 4:18 am

    cheekykunt wrote:

    get an avelyn for people who use HCSM and blast them from a safe distance everytime they cast it. they will soon learn not to

    I hadn't thought of Avelyn, but it would be a nasty surprise to casters indeed, thank you!
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    Re: Defeating Turtles

    Post by aceluby on Sat Jan 28, 2012 11:43 am

    Where are you seeing all of these casters? I've met 3 in 300 matches.


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    Re: Defeating Turtles

    Post by strangejoy on Sat Jan 28, 2012 12:13 pm

    Don't listen to them about the grieving. As a forest hunter, you can invade well above your level, and there are TONS of farmers and campers in the forest. The only thing being lower level does for you is make your job harder. At SL 12, I invaded people who took more than 4 lightning claymore backstabs and gave me over 1 million souls; believe me, fighting these guys who double team you with their SL500 builds isn't grieving in the slightest. Also, to wield BKGA, you had to make sacrafices on other stats at such a low level, so I don't consider you to be at much of an advantage. Some higher level campers will complain about your weapon choice, because they much prefer to double team people with unupgraded scimitars so they can feel good about themselves when they inevitably win by mashing R1 mindlessly.

    I've run into a couple of groups that were obviously headed to Sif. They don't just stand around and wait for hunters to invade. Normally, they're on the move, and often they're hollow, so you wouldn't run into them anyway. In other words, the people you're killing are almost certainly looking for PvP.

    As to your specific question, try dung, firestorm, gravelord sword dance, and for the Artorias shield, magic attacks will do the trick (sorceries and/or WoG will penetrate rather effectively). Happy hunting!


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    Re: Defeating Turtles

    Post by strangejoy on Sat Jan 28, 2012 12:16 pm

    aceluby wrote:Where are you seeing all of these casters? I've met 3 in 300 matches.

    As far as I know, the kiln is almost devoid of casters because most builds don't have room for both sorceries and the most popular melee weapons. In the forest, people aren't level capped, so you see a lot of people who are both casting HSCM and wielding things like BKGA or a demon's great axe. I can attest that about half of my matches in the forest are against toons using HSCM and CSS (either the sunbro or the host). That's one thing that makes forest hunting fun, assuming you can get over the cheapness and total lack of consistency.

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    Re: Defeating Turtles

    Post by Fusion on Sat Jan 28, 2012 1:32 pm

    strangejoy wrote:Don't listen to them about the grieving. As a forest hunter, you can invade well above your level, and there are TONS of farmers and campers in the forest. The only thing being lower level does for you is make your job harder. At SL 12, I invaded people who took more than 4 lightning claymore backstabs and gave me over 1 million souls; believe me, fighting these guys who double team you with their SL500 builds isn't grieving in the slightest. Also, to wield BKGA, you had to make sacrafices on other stats at such a low level, so I don't consider you to be at much of an advantage. Some higher level campers will complain about your weapon choice, because they much prefer to double team people with unupgraded scimitars so they can feel good about themselves when they inevitably win by mashing R1 mindlessly.

    I've run into a couple of groups that were obviously headed to Sif. They don't just stand around and wait for hunters to invade. Normally, they're on the move, and often they're hollow, so you wouldn't run into them anyway. In other words, the people you're killing are almost certainly looking for PvP.

    As to your specific question, try dung, firestorm, gravelord sword dance, and for the Artorias shield, magic attacks will do the trick (sorceries and/or WoG will penetrate rather effectively). Happy hunting!

    Thanks for the insight! The Artorias shield does have rather abysmal magical defences, doesn't it? Perhaps it's time I invest some more points to get WoG, I've tried Gravelord Sword Dance on my other toon and frankly the results were underwhelming, merely because the cast time combined with the randomness of the blades means more often than not I'm either dead from trying to cast it or not inflicting any damage in the first place.

    I've only been playing this character since today and as I learn to master the BKGA's moveset the PvPing is getting easier, sure people with ridiculous amounts of poise can't get stunlocked, but as it is I'm already playing as a bit of a glass cannon. Hitting someone before backing away and circling, waiting for another chance. The only real tough enemies are the ones that insist on using a Katana + Eagle Shield or a vit gouged Moonlight Greatsword user.

    I guess it comes down to you win some you lose some, and I'm not about to frantically stack on Vit so I can swing around endlessly, there's no fun in it. Thanks for all the replies so far.
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    Re: Defeating Turtles

    Post by d15-149 on Sat Jan 28, 2012 2:18 pm

    Force and WOG are good options for breaking turtles.

    Also consider using dead angles:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2wk7-Iy7-8A
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    Re: Defeating Turtles

    Post by k0rruptid on Sat Jan 28, 2012 2:53 pm

    im simply saying its pretty obvious people will play more defensive against such a damaging weapon. which stuns better than most other large weapons.


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    Re: Defeating Turtles

    Post by Scudman_Slayer on Sat Jan 28, 2012 2:59 pm

    k0rruptid wrote:im simply saying its pretty obvious people will play more defensive against such a damaging weapon. which stuns better than most other large weapons.

    yeah its not like it takes any skill to use it really
    just swing,swing,swing,stun,swing,swing,stun

    that pretty much sums the up BKGA if you ask me you say that that turtles just keep swinging their weapons and get kills? look at the BKGA wielders they're even worse

    no wonder people play defensively against a BKGA ITS one of the most powerfull weapons in the game and its so easy to get kills with it

    just get close to the guy and keep swinging,there skill to it? i really don't see any


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    Re: Defeating Turtles

    Post by strangejoy on Sat Jan 28, 2012 3:02 pm

    Sure, it makes perfect sense to play defensively against BKGA. But I don't think there is any harm in OP asking whether there is some way to deal with the turtling.


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    Re: Defeating Turtles

    Post by Scudman_Slayer on Sat Jan 28, 2012 3:11 pm

    just try to keep their stamina down use green blossom and two-handed attacks until you break his guard keep rushing and don't let him regain stamina

    or alternatively you can use ranged weapons like crossbows,magic spells,miracles,dung pie,you name it


    you can also alternativly parry because well you won't die by a little spear or rapier poke will you? no so everytime you see he'l attack parry and there you have it you riposted his *** to the ground


    BKGA is just overrated and well 1/4 of the community use only this weapon due to it making all other weapons useless and weak when compared to it and it stuns like hell which makes it take even less skill because you will stun a guy on the second swing most of the time swing


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    Re: Defeating Turtles

    Post by strangejoy on Sat Jan 28, 2012 3:21 pm

    People die to BKGA for the same reason that they die to claymores; they refuse to roll out after the first hit and instead try to tank and mash R1. Contrary to popular belief, there is very little stunlocking in this game, particularly if you have a little poise. At about poise 60, you can roll out of the first hit of almost anything. The third hit is free if you don't roll out, but even then, the fourth hit is not free (roll out or parry!).

    BKGA is ridiculously quick for its size. I'll give you that. It should swing more like a great club.


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    Re: Defeating Turtles

    Post by LOLRagezzz on Sat Jan 28, 2012 3:23 pm

    I don't have a problem with BKGA, its much slower than my CMW washing pole!


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    Re: Defeating Turtles

    Post by Emergence on Sat Jan 28, 2012 3:37 pm

    The video D15 posted is well worth watching, and if you check out some of EWGF's vids you will see the BKGA is also very susceptible to a rolling bs. Dead angles are a really important element.


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    Re: Defeating Turtles

    Post by strangejoy on Sat Jan 28, 2012 3:38 pm

    All of EWGF's videos are worth watching. The man is a Dark Souls/Demon Souls genius.
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    Re: Defeating Turtles

    Post by Emergence on Sat Jan 28, 2012 3:42 pm

    Agreed, he is like a resident professor. Glad he started doing vids.


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    Re: Defeating Turtles

    Post by aceluby on Sat Jan 28, 2012 3:44 pm

    I've never had an issue w/ the BKGA, though I do get stunlocked on the first hit quite often which means I basically get two tries if I'm lucky against a BKGA user. It's usually enough since it really does leave them open.


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    Re: Defeating Turtles

    Post by Back Lot Basher on Sat Jan 28, 2012 7:43 pm

    cheekykunt wrote:
    Fusion wrote:I haven't fought a single person who wasn't using HCSM, Full Havel's, CMW or WoG. The one unfortunate guy I did invade who was ~level 30 died to an NPC, I then messaged him, telling him how to farm the NPC's in the forest properly.

    I will definitely try Dung Pies in the future, thanks.

    get an avelyn for people who use HCSM and blast them from a safe distance everytime they cast it. they will soon learn not to

    Anyone who knows how to play a battlemage wouldn't get suckered by Avelyn.

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