Server and Primordial Serpants

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    Server and Primordial Serpants

    Post by JohnnyHarpoon on Fri May 11, 2012 7:21 pm

    Not sure if this has been brought up before, but I've never really utilized the Server weapon before and I just had an observation.


    It's not the easiest to see in this picture, but I am pretty sure the engraving on the weapons is intended to be the profile of a Primordial Serpent.

    Just look at the design creeping up the blade - it looks like some kind of snake skin pattern. The head then definitely appears like a snake's, it has a pretty distinct eyeball, and it even has the weird floppy-dangly ear thing that both Frampt and Kaathe posses.

    This is quite interesting. To dig deeper into this, I looked at the description of the Server:
    A curved greatsword used in a mysterious ancient rite.
    Imbued with a frightful occult energy which restores HP with each hit.

    Hm...quite interesting, indeed. What is this mysterious ancient rite? The only rite I know of is the Rite of Kindling. We definitely do not need a Server to Kindle...however, the Server is imbued with some kind of 'occult' energy, and the Rite of Kindling is indeed found in the Catacombs. Obviously, the actual Occult Ember is found in the Painted World...but I'd say the Catacombs are pretty damn occult, still.

    More interesting to me, even is the inherent power imbued into the Server, which sucks HP with every successful strike. Immediately, I can't help but think of the Ring of the Evil Eye:
    According to legend, this ring contains the spirit of the evil eye, a dark beast which assaulted Astora.
    The strength of the evil eye does not waver, and HP is absorbed from fallen enemies.

    Now, I mean, I'm not sure how it relates lore-wise, obviously, but their effects do seem somewhat similar. Going further, the eye is quite pronounced on the Server engraving, and when you look at the eye of either Primordial Serpent, it is actually pretty similar in shape to the design of the Ring of the Evil Eye (colors are different).

    And that's pretty much where I hit a dead end in my thinking. So:

    What do you think is the significance of all of this?


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    Re: Server and Primordial Serpants

    Post by User on Fri May 11, 2012 7:27 pm

    Sigh
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    Re: Server and Primordial Serpants

    Post by ViralEnsign_ on Fri May 11, 2012 7:30 pm

    Oh god Acidic's gearing up for another lore assualt on your senses....... It'll all be good stuff though.


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    Re: Server and Primordial Serpants

    Post by Carphil on Fri May 11, 2012 7:41 pm

    This Sigh can means two things:

    Option 1: Acidic already posted about this long ago

    or

    Option 2: He is preparing to post something huge

    Heads up. Anyway, interesting observetion. It makes sense that the server can drain HP, just as Kaathe drains humanity and Frampt consume souls


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    Re: Server and Primordial Serpants

    Post by User on Fri May 11, 2012 7:45 pm

    Option 1
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    Re: Server and Primordial Serpants

    Post by JohnnyHarpoon on Fri May 11, 2012 7:59 pm

    Well, I'm sure all of us would be happy to check out your post if you'd be kind enough to link to it.

    All the pieces matter.


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    Re: Server and Primordial Serpants

    Post by ViralEnsign_ on Fri May 11, 2012 8:01 pm

    True but then again while Acidics lore is great its primarily speculation, albiet really well researched speculation.


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    Re: Server and Primordial Serpants

    Post by User on Fri May 11, 2012 8:12 pm

    I'll link it when I'm on my PC. Which is soon, it seems.
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    Re: Server and Primordial Serpants

    Post by PlasticandRage on Fri May 11, 2012 8:16 pm

    I feel like I remember reading an Acidic post recently that stated that the Server's description changes if you make it either fire or chaos, can't remember which. I've actually been meaning to try it in order to check it out.


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    Re: Server and Primordial Serpants

    Post by WyrmHero on Fri May 11, 2012 8:54 pm

    The Server, the Vow of Silence, the Large Flame Ember and Occult Ember, the Rite of Kindling...every one of them mention an ancient and mysterious rite which I think it connects to the workings of Velka. But Acid can give you a better explanation as I'm not so fluent with words.


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    Re: Server and Primordial Serpants

    Post by JohnnyHarpoon on Fri May 11, 2012 9:54 pm

    ViralEnsign_ wrote:True but then again while Acidics lore is great its primarily speculation, albiet really well researched speculation.

    All lore is speculation - it's true, we are given many tidbits in the
    game, but it is primarily up to the player to piece these bits together
    and make sense out of them. Outside of the 'facts', one's best
    bet is to compare the lore to real life mythology and the like.

    Even then, it's mostly just speculation, but the more evidence the better. For instance, I am more or less 100% sure that I've hit the nail on the head in this post (http://soulswiki.forumsrpg.com/t5085-humanity-and-death), but that's only because I am referencing one of my favorite quotes from the entirety of the time I studied Classical Mythology. Dark Souls, however, borrows from more than just Greeks and Romans, and I'm sure from things that I've no familiarity with...so it would take a scholar far greater than I to recognize it all (or, perhaps multiple scholars...like ALL OF US!).

    This Server business seems a little more incestuous than Humanity and Death, though...after all, people have been writing about those for thousands of years, and not quite so long about primordial serpants and curved greatswords. Still, I'm sure there are outside connections to be made that would tie everything together.

    Acidic:
    http://soulswiki.forumsrpg.com/t3407-curved-greatsword-server-and-description?highlight=server#54504
    This was all I found from you when I searched to see if anyone had discussed the Server in depth. After further investigating (and dinner), I found some more stuff in your lore sticky (I think the 'search' only searches thread topics and not the posts). I'm not sure how to link to a specific post, so I'ma just quote ya.
    Acidic_Cook wrote:This topic, the ancient rite, I have been
    speculated and searching both physically and mentally again and again,
    looking for the answer towards this 'ancient rite', a ritual used by
    those who have past long ago. Such ancient rites have been seen
    constantly in our view with both the rite of kindling and the large
    flame ember. However, as I have searched over and over, I have found
    many items linked towards this rite, and in better terms are linked to
    one individual in turn: The first Firekeeper of the flame of disparity;
    the goddess of sin, Velka.

    31. Ancient Rites and Velka

    In
    the case of Lordran, we know that the rite of kindling is an important
    aspect towards the way of white, meant to give 'extraordinary power' as
    Petrus somewhat describes. The Rite of Kindling, as well as the large
    flame ember (which states that it is part of the ancient rite ritual in
    the description as well), also points towards Nito as well, as he was
    known to have once the rite of kindling, as well as Vamos knowing of
    where the large flame ember was (New Londo), which also ties towards the
    Darkwraiths and the chaos covenant, although more so to the
    Darkwraiths. We have speculated over and over about these two things,
    what they mean, what they represent. However... their was a few things
    that I have missed in my play.

    One, is the Server. In the
    description of this curved sword, it says that it was used for an
    ancient rite, and that it has frightful occult energy. Interesting
    enough, the sword's description changes later when certain upgrades are
    made towards the sword, in which case would be that of the chaos and the
    flame upgrades. The contexts of the sword, as well as the location, is
    interesting by itself. For one, it is a unique sword, being found only
    once in every playthroughs, unless given by an outsider player. The
    sword, being a curved sword, is a unique type by itself. The only
    greatswords found within Lordran other than the server are both the
    eastern greatsword, murak, as well as the gravelord greatsword.
    Interesting enough, both curved greatswords are owned by Nito and his
    followers, as well as the rite of kindling, being part of the ancient
    rite, also being held by Nito as well. The sword is made to leech life
    with every hit that it gives, and its location is also special, as it is
    guarded by giant leeches, which seemingly is proper due to the fact
    that leeches are meant to suck life out of things in order to sustain as
    well. Where the server lays, their are three leeches who surround such a
    sword, in which might speculate that the leeches absorbed the power of
    the energy within the sword, in which may be the cause of them being in
    such a large state (maybe the mosquitoes as well, although hard to say
    if that is so, as such mosquitoes can exist in reality in tropical
    forests... or other bugs at least).

    The most interesting aspect
    of the sword, however, is the design of it. Many do not know, but their
    is a picture of a special creature that many interact with in Lordran,
    although only known to show in special occasions. The creature drawn on
    the sword is of dark origin as well, as the sword is known to have
    occult properties towards it. On the non-sharpened side of the great
    curved sword, their is a creature with a long neck, in which extends
    from hilt to the hook of the blade. With it, the head emerges from the
    long neck, and with it shows a snake of sorts, that shows somewhat of a
    mustache or ear content beside it, unblinking eyes, and an odd grin. The
    Glutton Dragon, the Primordial Serpent, is the picture of this very
    sword. Such a dragon would be an odd place to be in such influence of an
    ancient rite, as the serpent is the representation of consummation, as
    shown both by Frampt (titanite and item consummation and breakage) and
    Kaathe (humanity to be absorbed to the dark hand/dark weapons). Such
    influence between the ancient rite, the server, and the glutton dragons
    gives such wonder as to what it would aim towards. How did this sword
    come to such a location? Hard to say, however as blighttown leads
    towards the demon ruins (which can allow Kirk to reach to the chaos
    servants with the large flame ember, if he really did bring it with
    him), as well as it being beside the great hollow, it can either be
    brought from Kirk who lost it (unlikely), or is that of a possible woman
    who dropped it... however speculation still continues as of why it is
    their now, instead of with the large flame ember or with the rite of
    kindling. Inconvenient place.

    I have speculated before that the
    ancient rite, being that it is tied to certain aspects towards the flame
    of disparity, might be the tools used in order for those to become of
    such quality as Velka, the flame of disparity, or perhaps even both. But
    to what qualities does the ancient rite give? Hard to say. However with
    many experiments, with a good amount of playthroughs to test it, I
    still did not find anything... so I looked further.

    I searched
    in the wiki, i searched in the forum, the game, youtube, everywhere.... I
    found many things in the game and looked over again and again, and yet I
    still did not find anything that might have tied towards the ancient
    rite... Then I found some things of interest that do tie towards the
    ancient rite, Velka, and the flame of disparity. I found more items that
    have descriptions that are tied towards this rite, as well as being
    connected for the content of such items use.

    The first, is the
    the rings of sacrifice. Both of them. They are both tied towards this
    rite, with the usage of humanity, be the aspect used in the connection
    of both dark and fire, which is the very aspect of the flame of
    disparity, as dark is part of the flame of disparity. As well, these two
    rings function the same way, however one ring is resilient towards
    curses. Curses, in which we the chosen undead have seen constantly, are
    those of two influences within lordran. one are the dragons, in which we
    see as the basilisk and Seath. The other is the ghosts of New Londo, as
    well as artorias and the four kings. Such beings are tied towards Velka
    as well, and no other being either use nor are infected by such curses.
    Both these beings are tied towards Velka as well, being that Ne wLondo
    has the influence of both the statues of her (and a child) that lead
    towards the abyss, the holder of not only the four kings, but also a
    dark serpent, a glutton dragon: Kaathe. Seath having some ideals that
    are speculated to be tied towards Velka in many aspects, mostly due to
    the lifehunter, the influence of power, and the aspect of him betraying
    Gwyn in his absence, just as New Londo did; both being influenced by
    Velka. The basilisk and Seath have other reasons of tying to the
    rings... but that is for later.

    The rings can both be worn at the
    same time, both the brown and the magenta. In the description, it is
    created in a sacrificial rite of the goddess of sin. Now whether or not
    is used for the ancient rite is spectacle and possibly not so, as it
    only says that it was created in a sacrificial rite. However, the ties
    towards humanity, as well as these rings being known to be rare and
    uncommon, with the only exception being the merchant that sells 10
    normal rings of sacrifice (you can find two rings of sacrifice, three
    rare rings of sacrifice, in the wild), it can be said that these rings
    are indeed rare and hard to find. As the pardoner, the merchant who
    sells these normal rings of sacrifice, is a priest and follower of the
    Goddess of Sin, that it may be the the treasures that he brought with
    him from the goddess to Lordran, or is the treasures he has found within
    lordran, to be used by those who can afford it. It may be that these
    rings are created in a similar fashion as that of the bite rings and the
    purging stones, however it is hard to say, as it shows no dread of any
    dark influence of its creation, unlike the purging stones and the bite
    rings. Velka, as well as the bite rings and the purging stones, can be
    said to be tied towards Carim. It is also noted that the cursebite ring
    can be found in New Londo, where many Carim objects are also found as
    well, including the parrying dagger, the red sage, and other factors.
    The clams, the ones that are found by the dragon Seath as well as ash
    lake, also have purging stones as well, which shows the question as of
    how these things are made. The last note needed to make, is that the
    ring of sacrifice is tied to the flame of disparity, as it uses the
    breakage of the ring in order to bring a person back to life as human at
    a bonfire. The indication of wearing it also shows a humanity symbol
    under the user's top bar on the top left corner, which has a small
    humanity symbol (similar to how wearing special rings or other sorts
    bring sup a small symbol to resemble its influence, such as a green
    shield with a yellow arrow, or other such symbols towards the aspect of
    the item equipped and used).

    The next is the Vow of Silence. A
    secret rite also tied towards Velka, with the other being the rings of
    sacrifice, both the rare and the more so common type. The vow of silence
    is not to preserve the beings souls nor humanity after death, but more
    so mute the use of any magic whatsoever. Interesting, as Velka, being
    known as a black haired witch, would have negative impact towards such a
    miracle. It would seem odd to have it equipped of all cases, being that
    it removes the aspects of Sorcery, Pyromancy, and Miracles. However, a
    few exceptions leave it to not hinder the use of magic. Such items
    include the dragons weapons and their powers, the dragon body and its
    powers it holds, and some items such as the stone great sword and the
    trident. These weapons are tied towards magic, however are not hindered
    by this miracle. However, one is not a weapon, in which is the dragon
    body itself. This dragon body uses the power of flame and magic, as we
    have discovered from before posts as of their origin of creation. Even
    thou they are influenced by magic, these dragonoids are not affected by
    this miracle. it may be due to the fact that these special abilities
    that come from the dragon body use endurance, which would say that the
    organs or the physical self has been altered to a state of becoming more
    so physical than magical at all. Now what is this secret rite any how?
    What is it meant for, other than muting the use of general and common
    magic? It is said that it is a secret rite, but for what is unknown.
    Perhaps it is part of a secret rite, in which seems to tie towards the
    aspect of both flame and magic. So why is Pyromancy removed from play
    after the use of the miracle? Perhaps it is the lack of magic, or
    perhaps a lack of something else, being that it comes from the origin of
    the chaos witches, not Velka or the dragons themselves. Who knows. The
    aspect of removing the use of magic, however, seems to follow the ideals
    of the blacksmith deity as well as the god of war, believing in the
    aspect of only trust in the arm. As the dragon seems to follow these
    trends, even thou they are that of both magic and fire, it seems to be
    able to surpass such use of the miracle as well.

    The next, is the
    large divine ember. Similar to that of the large flame ember, it is
    used for rites as well. However instead of stating ancient rites, it
    states church rites instead. The location of the large divine ember is
    interesting on itself, being found surrounded by followers of Nito,
    holder of the rite of kindling (or was) and that these beasts of the
    occult and flame are weak towards such divine weaponry, and the ideas of
    the divine ember being near them would seemingly be... unstable. The
    church rite has no information to it, however divine qualities can be
    found in two aspects of Lordran: The gods of the sun, and the way of
    white. The way of white, followers of Lloyd and the aspects of the
    flame of disparity, seem to favour the location of the catacombs and the
    tomb of giants; home of the Gravelord himself, the darkest pits of
    Lordran. I have posted before about such influence that rhea, the way of
    whit, and Nito have towards the flame of disparity, and that the way of
    white seek it for something of the flame. I have speculated that the
    way of white was part of the unification of the bondage of Velka and
    Gwyn during or before the flame of disparity, in which case may be that
    the way of white is a party of influence that had once held Velka as
    part of their family... perhaps. The aspect of Rhea being different than
    most is similar to that of the witches found within Lordran, being that
    of Velka, Beatric, and the Daughters of Chaos. perhaps, as the ancient
    rite is what the way of white seeks, that it is indeed part of such
    unification and the flame of disparity. Now, as the divine ember is that
    used for church rites, it may be that this ember is of use similar to
    that of the large flame ember as well.

    The last one, and possibly
    the most unexpected and troubling out of them all, is the one I thought
    that would against the idea of the first flame: The Dragon. Now this
    made me go for a long search for a while. But... I have found some
    interesting notes about such dragon body, found and given by the stone
    dragon (who is a Firekeeper of an old bonfire, a bonfire of the war of
    the dragons. Hinted by the lumber used to kindle it instead of bone).
    Now the structure and the content of the body itself is interesting. The
    fur it holds is similar to that of Nito and the Darkwraiths who follow
    the ideals of Kaathe, a serpent of the dark and Velka. Interesting, as
    the ideals of the darkwraiths and Nito are of similar aspects towards
    that of the dragons. The darkwraiths are meant to grow themselves in
    power, as much as a dragonoid does as well. The Gravelord uses the
    aspect of an eye, a dragon eye. Not the same eye as a dragon, but
    instead that of a lesser dragon, a basilisk, which is tied towards Velka
    and Seath in many aspects, as stated before. All three have the ideals
    of the black hair, symbolizing Velka as well. The structure of the
    dragon also symbolizes a creature that use to hunt them down as well:
    The Silver Knight. The legs, the chest, and the arms have the same
    exoskeleton as that of a black and a silver knight, showing particular
    fondness towards the dragonoids and even the dragons themselves. At
    least the everlasting dragons. These aspects of the dragon body and head
    are interesting at best. Now whether or not this dragon body and head
    are used for the ancient rite is unknown. However such a dragon body can
    not be dodged for the ties it has towards many of the beings of
    Lordran, of both the dark and sunlight. As the stone dragon seems to be a
    Firekeeper of the first flame, she seems to show the ideals of how
    dragons are not completely separate from the first flame, even thou it
    was first lit to remove the aspect of the everlasting dragons. But why?
    Is it for the greater good of humanity, to allow the aspect of man to
    become not the aspect of a shadow under such beasts of strength and awe?
    Or is it due to the fact that perhaps another being seeking power, and
    she brought others with her towards that goal? Speculation still
    continues.

    Now as for what the rite is used for, is right now
    just speculation. however, it still stands for the aspects of bondage,
    the first flame, a trueborn (Rhea, or at least a witch in blood), and
    Velka in general. The search continues, but at least you know what I
    have been doing for the past few weeks for lore. The search continues,
    the lore close, have faith and patience.

    So clearly, props to Acidic, as always. big grin


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    Re: Server and Primordial Serpants

    Post by User on Fri May 11, 2012 10:45 pm

    I was just about to get the link. Thank you Johnny, You are on the spot.

    lol
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    Re: Server and Primordial Serpants

    Post by PlasticandRage on Fri May 11, 2012 11:17 pm

    the word consummation doesn't mean what you think it does.


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    Re: Server and Primordial Serpants

    Post by JohnnyHarpoon on Sat May 12, 2012 3:04 am

    PlasticandRage wrote:the word consummation doesn't mean what you think it does.

    Consumption is the appropriate term, I believe. No biggie.

    Acidic_Cook wrote:I was just about to get the link. Thank you Johnny, You are on the spot.

    lol

    lol

    I just was hoping I wasn't missing anything.


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    Re: Server and Primordial Serpants

    Post by Shkar on Sat May 12, 2012 3:08 am

    WyrmHero wrote:The Server, the Vow of Silence, the Large Flame Ember and Occult Ember, the Rite of Kindling...every one of them mention an ancient and mysterious rite which I think it connects to the workings of Velka. But Acid can give you a better explanation as I'm not so fluent with words.

    I honestly don't think most of those (except the server, maybe) have to do with it, but the dragon head/torso stones are referred to as mysterious rites as well. The whole Server/Serpent connection to dragons is painfully obvious.
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    Re: Server and Primordial Serpants

    Post by PlasticandRage on Sat May 12, 2012 3:16 am

    The reason I brought it up is because it's meaning in context is actually pretty hilarious. Frampt and Kaathe represent consummation


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    Re: Server and Primordial Serpants

    Post by JohnnyHarpoon on Sat May 12, 2012 4:57 am

    ^ Haha totally missed the literal meaning there. In a way, though, they do consummate one another...in the same way you need both yin and yang to consummate a...yin-yang.

    Contextually, though, no.

    Really, though
    Shkar wrote:The whole Server/Serpent connection to dragons is painfully obvious.

    It is obvious...but a less obvious reference would be the Chinese Zodiac - I actually googled 'snakes and dragons' just to make sure there wasn't anything more obvious I could bring up, but the Chinese Zodiac is indeed what came up first.

    "Cat and Rat were the worst swimmers in
    the animal kingdom. Although they were poor swimmers, they were both
    quite intelligent. To get to the meeting called by the Jade Emperor,
    they had to cross a river to reach the meeting place. The Jade Emperor
    had also decreed that the years on the calendar would be named for each
    animal in the order they arrived to the meeting. Cat and Rat decided
    that the best and fastest way to cross the river was to hop on the back
    of Ox. Ox, being naïve and good-natured, agreed to carry them both
    across. Midway across the river, Rat pushed Cat into the water. Then as
    Ox neared the other side of the river, Rat jumped ahead and reached the
    shore first. So he claimed first place in the competition and the
    zodiac.
    Following closely behind was strong Ox who was named the 2nd animal
    in the zodiac. After Ox, came Tiger, panting, while explaining to the
    Jade Emperor how difficult it was to cross the river with the heavy
    currents pushing it downstream all the time. But with its powerful
    strength, Tiger made to shore and was named the 3rd animal in the cycle.

    Suddenly, from a distance came a thumping sound, and the Rabbit
    arrived. It explained how it crossed the river: by jumping from one
    stone to another in a nimble fashion. Halfway through, it almost lost
    the race, but the Rabbit was lucky enough to grab hold of a floating log
    that later washed him to shore. For that, it became the 4th animal in
    the Zodiac cycle. In 5th place was the Flying Dragon. Of course, the
    Jade Emperor was deeply curious as to why a swift flying creature such
    as the Dragon should fail to reach first place. The mighty Dragon
    explained that he had to stop and make rain to help all the people and
    creatures of the earth, and therefore he was held back. Then, on his way
    to the finish, he saw a little helpless Rabbit clinging onto a log so
    he did a good deed and gave a puff of breath to the poor creature so
    that it could land on the shore. The Jade Emperor was very pleased with the actions of the Dragon, and he was added into the zodiac cycle. As soon as he had done so, a galloping sound was heard, and the Horse appeared. Hidden on the Horse's hoof was the Snake, whose sudden
    appearance gave the Horse a fright, thus making it fall back and giving
    the Snake the 6th spot, while the Horse placed 7th."

    It is interesting that Dragon and Snake are back-to-back. Given the Zodiac calendar goes year-by-year as opposed to month-by-month, it is particularly interesting...to me, this insinuates that the Primordial Serpents very well may have been the original race of the world, and then the stone dragons emerged from the grey crags and wiped them out. Much like 'they' emerged 'from the dark' and ended up wiping out the dragons. However, one did survive...so why couldn't two primordial serpents survive all this time?

    It is kind of radical, I know, but they are the PRIMORDIAL serpents:
    pri·mor·di·al
    [prahy-mawr-dee-uhl]
    adjective
    1.
    constituting a beginning; giving origin to something derived or developed; original; elementary: primordial forms of life.
    2.Embryology . first formed.
    3. pertaining to or existing at or from the very beginning: primordial matter.

    I am also currently working on breaking down the opening cinematic, but I'm gonna jump the gun on that right now. I started the other night and I wrote this two days ago, and now I am literally just copying and pasting it:

    "The world begins shrouded in fog. Why is it covered in fog, though? I mean, if the world was new, sure, throw some weird humid fog where life is like bubbling up out of primordial soup... but the world is mostly grey crags, archtrees, everlasting dragons. Truthfully, it doesn't even look moist. It looks pretty desolate and barren, including the stone dragons, despite them being alive.

    But there is another kind of fog - the fog of war. So, I believe that there is most definitely a prehistory that takes place before the 'beginning'. It is not necessarily a battle...but fog only accounts for so much. There is also the Demon's Souls reference with the fog as well...but given the setting, this is definitely not Demon's Souls fog."

    While I do still see my 'fog of war' idea as quite the possibility, I even used the word 'primordial' BEFORE I EVEN NOTICED THIS WHOLE SERVER THING.

    The more I think about it, the more I can't help but think the Primordial Serpents predate even the dragons - and that the dragons, in fact, are responsible for wiping out the primordial serpents (save for two), destroying them and leaving only a primordial fog in their wake. Much as humans then came, and then wiped out the dragons. This would even explain why Gwyn and the deities are so fearful of the 'dark' and death, as the dominance of every race calls for an extinction of another.

    Another possibility is that the serpents are, in fact, the ones who created the creatures (man, more or less) that emerged from 'the dark'. Not sure what their motivations would be, and I like the cyclic nature of my former explanation, but just trying to keep things open and hypothesize.

    Now, I know this is merely all my own speculation, but even if you guys don't think I'm exactly right, I think we're all onto something big with this. This is some secret f***ing pendant s*** right here, and I truly believe we're closer than we think to many secrets and lore-findings.

    What do Y'ALL think?


    Last edited by JohnnyHarpoon on Sat May 12, 2012 5:12 am; edited 6 times in total (Reason for editing : grammar/credit where credit is due)


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    Re: Server and Primordial Serpants

    Post by DoughGuy on Sat May 12, 2012 5:03 am

    There are actually 10 serpents and they are linked to the pygmy/dark lord as they once served him. This makes it likely he created them.


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    Re: Server and Primordial Serpants

    Post by Shkar on Sat May 12, 2012 5:09 am

    JohnnyHarpoon wrote:
    Now, I know this is merely all my own speculation, but even if you guys don't think I'm exactly right, I think we're all onto something big with this. This is some secret f***ing pendant s*** right here, and I truly believe we're closer than we think to many secrets and lore-findings.

    First of all, I would just like to point out that I had said that quote, not Wyrm (not important, I'm just nitpicky sometimes).

    Secondly, that is very interesting with the chinese zodiac and it may be part of the lore (metaphorically, of course). However, given most of the lore's more westernly stance, I think it is unlikely that it is the inspiration for that.

    Finally, if you think of the 10 serpents as a sort of massive "hydra" (my personal favorite theory), it could be seen as the world itself, leading them to being the very definition of "primordial" as well as being a reference to the traditions of "living earth" and "world serpent".
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    Re: Server and Primordial Serpants

    Post by JohnnyHarpoon on Sat May 12, 2012 5:12 am

    Sorry Shkar, the quoting got weird for a minute.


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    Re: Server and Primordial Serpants

    Post by Shkar on Sat May 12, 2012 5:15 am

    JohnnyHarpoon wrote:Sorry Shkar, the quoting got weird for a minute.

    It's cool. Like I said, it's not important, I just get a bit hung up on slight details at times.

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    Re: Server and Primordial Serpants

    Post by Iblis on Wed May 16, 2012 12:00 pm

    anyone tried killing the everlasting dragon or one of the primodial serpents with a chaos/flame server? i think the large flame embers role in the rite might simply upgrading the sword?

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    Re: Server and Primordial Serpants

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