Exploring a few things. Posting some theorizing

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    DoughGuy
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    Re: Exploring a few things. Posting some theorizing

    Post by DoughGuy on Fri May 11, 2012 10:53 pm

    The second line, where it talks about only the strength in his arms. Johnny asked where the wuote was from. Solaire follows the god of war, as the miracle says its one passed down to his warriors. It may belong to the god of war but he doesnt use it.
    Just to tell you ive had this argument before.


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    Re: Exploring a few things. Posting some theorizing

    Post by JoeBroski09 on Fri May 11, 2012 10:58 pm

    It doesn't say it was passed down by him. It says it was his weapon. "Passed down to those bound by the Sunlight Covenant" Not the followers of the God of War. "Weapon of the God of War" Meaning the God of War used this.
    We COULD speculate that since it was his weapon, and those who follow the covenant obtain this, that they are thus following him, and he hands it down to them, but this may not be the case. He could just be the one who was known for that spell. He could just be a follower of that covenant. Which Solaire is. It could go either way, but no matter which way it goes, the fact that solaire uses this spell doesn't go against him, because the God of War used this very spell.


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    Re: Exploring a few things. Posting some theorizing

    Post by DoughGuy on Fri May 11, 2012 11:23 pm

    Owning a weapon does not mena you use it. I own plenty of stuff I dont use. Solaire uses it because he follows the god of war and the weapon was passed down to him. once again you cannot say because he owned it that he used it.


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    Re: Exploring a few things. Posting some theorizing

    Post by JoeBroski09 on Fri May 11, 2012 11:26 pm

    It doesn't say that he simply owned it. It said it was "The weapon of" meaning he was known for that spell. It implies that that was his main go-to weapon. It wouldn't say "The weapon of" if he simply owned it. It wouldn't mention him at all if he didn't ever use it. Even if he invented it, it wouldn't be HIS weapon. It'd say "Created by the God of War"

    EDIT: Sorry if I seem a big shovey. I kinda get like that when I start getting really into a debate.


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    Re: Exploring a few things. Posting some theorizing

    Post by skarekrow13 on Fri May 11, 2012 11:51 pm

    I discussed in a different thread that Andre is the only npc in the game who gives not only advice but specific instruction. Crestfallen and some others tell you things but Andre relates the only in game "do this for this reason and you see this happens" type of advice. He tells you all about weapon and armor reinforcement almost step by step. He doesn't follow you into battle but he makes sure you have the knowledge to give it your best. Weapon reinforcement isn't any more difficult than the nuances of magic and the like or how poise works or most game mechanics to be fair. It's curious that he is the only example of hand holding in the game. I would say that he wants to see you well aka watches over you.

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    Re: Exploring a few things. Posting some theorizing

    Post by JoeBroski09 on Fri May 11, 2012 11:55 pm

    Huh. Well, that makes sense. I still don't see the "watching over you" part, but that's definitely more than I thought he did. I guess the phrase "watching over you," IMO, means "to follow and look after." As in, since Andrei doesn't move, he doesn't seem to be watching over me. That's just how it is to me, ya know? I feel like the God of War should be like a leader to his warriors. Not only a mentor. *shrug* but I guess that's the closest thing to hand-holding to this game. Well, I guess Solaire telling you almost exactly how to do cooperation is kinda hand holding :o Idk, maybe I'm stretchin it a bit.


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    Re: Exploring a few things. Posting some theorizing

    Post by DoughGuy on Fri May 11, 2012 11:59 pm

    Its fine Joe Im just a little tired and not really up to arguing atm. I stopped cause I knew I was starting to get annoyed. For the record Im not really sure who the GoW is (although IMO Andre is most likely) but I dont believe its Solaire.


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    Re: Exploring a few things. Posting some theorizing

    Post by JoeBroski09 on Sat May 12, 2012 12:03 am

    Ahhh. Yeah. It's only 8:02pm here in the Pacific Northwest. I guess Sydney has just a little bit of a time difference, huh? hahahah!


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    Re: Exploring a few things. Posting some theorizing

    Post by skarekrow13 on Sat May 12, 2012 12:04 am

    I know I'm on record for Andre too but hopefully not making out seem like solaire is a bad choice. I forgot too mention too that even though Andre seemed to be the guy before cuts doesn't mean it wasn't changed in the final version. I like the Andre evidence better but it's far from solaire being a dead end

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    Re: Exploring a few things. Posting some theorizing

    Post by DoughGuy on Sat May 12, 2012 12:04 am

    Its midday now but I had a really long day yesterday (2.5 hrs public transport, 2.5hrs work, 8 hrs uni on 6 hours sleep).


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    Re: Exploring a few things. Posting some theorizing

    Post by JoeBroski09 on Sat May 12, 2012 12:06 am

    Yeah. Solaire is completely known. If he was the GoW, we already know is story. Andrei has more mystery to him. I just kinda find it hard to believe that someone named Solaire isn't the Heir to the Sun. Hahahahaha!

    Ooooh! Yeah. I had a kinda long day yesterday. School 'till noon, then work till 7pm. Landscapin' ain't easy hahaha! But I'm 17, so I'm good hahaha!


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    Re: Exploring a few things. Posting some theorizing

    Post by Shkar on Sat May 12, 2012 12:43 am

    DoughGuy wrote:On one hand he would have shrunk a few undred years ago. On the other hand theres very little to do let alone to fight in the Kiln. I think the biggest piece of evidence is his height in th eprologue.

    Hollows are described as minless though, so I doubt that even experience would allow one to change instinct that deeply ingrained.

    That being said, the hollow can obviously react to your attacks, so just how mindless they are is debatable.
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    Re: Exploring a few things. Posting some theorizing

    Post by JoeBroski09 on Sat May 12, 2012 12:48 am

    Shkar wrote:
    DoughGuy wrote:On one hand he would have shrunk a few undred years ago. On the other hand theres very little to do let alone to fight in the Kiln. I think the biggest piece of evidence is his height in th eprologue.

    Hollows are described as minless though, so I doubt that even experience would allow one to change instinct that deeply ingrained.

    That being said, the hollow can obviously react to your attacks, so just how mindless they are is debatable.
    Let's debate it! hahah!
    Theoretically, the undead that can react to your attacks were once warriors. The ones in the Asylum were not warriors and thus can only attack and do not react at all to what you do. The undead in the Undead Burg were once warriors. And thus they've trained enough that their fighting instinct involves reacting to the enemy. Then balders are the ones who can parry, and they are the more advanced warriors. More Elite. The more powerful the undead you fight, the more powerful and more they fought before becoming undead. And thus, their instincts are more refined and involve more reaction to the enemy's movement. Making them a harder enemy to defeat.


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    Re: Exploring a few things. Posting some theorizing

    Post by PlasticandRage on Sat May 12, 2012 12:53 am

    JoeBroski09 wrote:
    Shkar wrote:
    DoughGuy wrote:On one hand he would have shrunk a few undred years ago. On the other hand theres very little to do let alone to fight in the Kiln. I think the biggest piece of evidence is his height in th eprologue.

    Hollows are described as minless though, so I doubt that even experience would allow one to change instinct that deeply ingrained.

    That being said, the hollow can obviously react to your attacks, so just how mindless they are is debatable.
    Let's debate it! hahah!
    Theoretically, the undead that can react to your attacks were once warriors. The ones in the Asylum were not warriors and thus can only attack and do not react at all to what you do. The undead in the Undead Burg were once warriors. And thus they've trained enough that their fighting instinct involves reacting to the enemy. Then balders are the ones who can parry, and they are the more advanced warriors. More Elite. The more powerful the undead you fight, the more powerful and more they fought before becoming undead. And thus, their instincts are more refined and involve more reaction to the enemy's movement. Making them a harder enemy to defeat.

    I buy that logic. It's been said that combat training eventually becomes so ingrained that it becomes a kind of learned instinct.
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    Re: Exploring a few things. Posting some theorizing

    Post by JoeBroski09 on Sat May 12, 2012 12:58 am

    Whoo! Somebody buys my logic! Now I just need to convince people that Solaire is The God of war Mwuahahahahahahahahahahahahaha!... I just over did it, didn't I?


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    Re: Exploring a few things. Posting some theorizing

    Post by DoughGuy on Sat May 12, 2012 12:59 am

    Its always been my opinion that what goes through a hollows head as they hollow becomes their life once they hollow. So all the warriors would have been thinking stuff like "I cannot give up, must keep fighting" so for the rest of their "lives" they fight. Laurentius's last thoughts were "the bastard lied to me theres no one here, Ill get my revenge", Vince and Nico's was "Protect Reah, dont let any touch her" etc.


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    Re: Exploring a few things. Posting some theorizing

    Post by JoeBroski09 on Sat May 12, 2012 1:01 am

    Hmm. What about the Crestfallen Warrior? Why'd he go Hollow Protecting New Londo? It may not be their last thoughts, but their most important thoughts. Perhaps the Crestfallen Warrior was once an inhabitant of New Londo, and became hollow and had to leave before it became the Ghost town it is today. Sadly, none of his gear is found in New Londo, thus making the fact that he's in New Londo when he hollows the only connect. Thus making my point invalid.
    Ideas?


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    Re: Exploring a few things. Posting some theorizing

    Post by skarekrow13 on Sat May 12, 2012 1:05 am

    I buy this train of thought. I never thought of hollow as mindless but rather empty spiritually. In other words, skills don't go away but any useful motivation is lost. There could be perhaps a lingering desire to regain purpose which would account for Vince and Nico trying too guard Rhea still.

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    Re: Exploring a few things. Posting some theorizing

    Post by DoughGuy on Sat May 12, 2012 1:05 am

    Must find a new place to live. **** theres no place around here as good as firelink. Gonna kill that bastard for bringing the smell. - Something like that.


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    Re: Exploring a few things. Posting some theorizing

    Post by PlasticandRage on Sat May 12, 2012 1:06 am

    DoughGuy wrote:Its always been my opinion that what goes through a hollows head as they hollow becomes their life once they hollow. So all the warriors would have been thinking stuff like "I cannot give up, must keep fighting" so for the rest of their "lives" they fight. Laurentius's last thoughts were "the bastard lied to me theres no one here, Ill get my revenge", Vince and Nico's was "Protect Reah, dont let any touch her" etc.

    I always assumed that Quelaan and Eingyi were responsible for Laurentius's hollowing. Eingyi's story has to do with him being entirely shunned from the swamp community for essentially lacking morality and doing grotesque things with pyromancy. I assumed that Laurentius went down there and discovered Eingyi and Quelaan, in their arguably ultra grotesque forms and purposes and attempted to destroy them, and was thus destroyed himself.


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    Re: Exploring a few things. Posting some theorizing

    Post by JoeBroski09 on Sat May 12, 2012 1:08 am

    PlasticandRage wrote:
    DoughGuy wrote:Its always been my opinion that what goes through a hollows head as they hollow becomes their life once they hollow. So all the warriors would have been thinking stuff like "I cannot give up, must keep fighting" so for the rest of their "lives" they fight. Laurentius's last thoughts were "the bastard lied to me theres no one here, Ill get my revenge", Vince and Nico's was "Protect Reah, dont let any touch her" etc.

    I always assumed that Quelaan and Eingyi were responsible for Laurentius's hollowing. Eingyi's story has to do with him being entirely shunned from the swamp community for essentially lacking morality and doing grotesque things with pyromancy. I assumed that Laurentius went down there and discovered Eingyi and Quelaan, in their arguably ultra grotesque forms and purposes and attempted to destroy them, and was thus destroyed himself.
    Where do you find his body again?

    And the Crestfallen Warrior doesn't hollow near Frank. He's actually farther. Maybe he was going towards Kaathe, but he shouldn't be able to smell Kaathe. Hmmm.


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    Re: Exploring a few things. Posting some theorizing

    Post by skarekrow13 on Sat May 12, 2012 1:08 am

    Yeah I thought he was trying to find the abyss to kill primordial serpents and went hollow when the goal was unachievable

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    Re: Exploring a few things. Posting some theorizing

    Post by DoughGuy on Sat May 12, 2012 1:09 am

    Ahh but Laurentius goes down for 2 reasons. Either you show him a chaos pyromancy or an ascended glove. What do the 2 people down their that do those things have in common? Illusions. Either he cant find the illusion wall hiding Quelaan (just because you broke it doesnt mean he did) or he cant see Quelana like you can (cause his pyro is not good enough). Either way he cant see what you sent him down to find. His disappointment coupled with his hate fro you sending him on a useless mission hollows him.


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    Re: Exploring a few things. Posting some theorizing

    Post by JoeBroski09 on Sat May 12, 2012 1:10 am

    Huh. Cresfallen may have just tried to kill one of the ghosts and before even getting to the Transient Curse, he gives up hahaha! Makes sense. "I have to do this... I can't do this..."

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    Re: Exploring a few things. Posting some theorizing

    Post by DoughGuy on Sat May 12, 2012 1:11 am

    He moved away from Frampt due to Frampt smelling. He tried to find another place to peacefully and quietly go hollow but couldnt. You dont ever find his body. All he ever wanted was just to go hollow peacefully, which is why when you kill him he thanks you for helping him.


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