Exploring a few things. Posting some theorizing

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    DoughGuy
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    Re: Exploring a few things. Posting some theorizing

    Post by DoughGuy on Sun May 13, 2012 7:25 pm

    They are not mutually exclusive however no-one but the firesgae remember how to cast the sorceries, and the firesage never learnt pyromancy because Quelana created it and only those she taigh or her students taughtt know it


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    Re: Exploring a few things. Posting some theorizing

    Post by Shkar on Sun May 13, 2012 9:27 pm

    DoughGuy wrote:They are not mutually exclusive however no-one but the firesgae remember how to cast the sorceries, and the firesage never learnt pyromancy because Quelana created it and only those she taigh or her students taughtt know it

    The hostile sister before BoC uses pyromancy spells, but that might just be due to not wanting to code in special spells just for her.
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    Re: Exploring a few things. Posting some theorizing

    Post by JoeBroski09 on Sun May 13, 2012 9:30 pm

    She WAS using the Izalith catalyst. Makes me wonder if she used the ancient fire sorcery instead of pyromancy.


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    Re: Exploring a few things. Posting some theorizing

    Post by DoughGuy on Sun May 13, 2012 9:41 pm

    She has the catalyst on her. She uses a glove to cast her spells. That sister may have learnt from Quelana. She may have also escaed, Quelana taught her the pyromancy then she returned to try and free her mother but went hollow instead. Or she may hav learnt pyromancy from the flam like Quelana did,


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    Re: Exploring a few things. Posting some theorizing

    Post by JoeBroski09 on Sun May 13, 2012 9:48 pm

    Ahhh. Ok. That makes sense. Then why did she have the catlyst on her, though? One mole head hit, another pops up hahaha!


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    Re: Exploring a few things. Posting some theorizing

    Post by DoughGuy on Sun May 13, 2012 9:56 pm

    Momento of better times? Family reasons? Theres no reason to throw it away?


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    Re: Exploring a few things. Posting some theorizing

    Post by JoeBroski09 on Sun May 13, 2012 9:59 pm

    She wanted to keep it to give to the person who beat her in a fair duel. But you kill her instead. So you just loot her body and move on to kill her sister.


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    Re: Exploring a few things. Posting some theorizing

    Post by DoughGuy on Sun May 13, 2012 10:12 pm

    She was hollow, she has no concept of fair.


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    Re: Exploring a few things. Posting some theorizing

    Post by JoeBroski09 on Sun May 13, 2012 10:12 pm

    Ahh. So she's apart of the Forest Covenant. XP hahahaha!


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    Re: Exploring a few things. Posting some theorizing

    Post by Shkar on Sun May 13, 2012 10:13 pm

    DoughGuy wrote:She has the catalyst on her. She uses a glove to cast her spells. That sister may have learnt from Quelana. She may have also escaed, Quelana taught her the pyromancy then she returned to try and free her mother but went hollow instead. Or she may hav learnt pyromancy from the flam like Quelana did,

    Great, now I'm curious if the race of the izalith sisters is actually capable of "going hollow". The undead curse is only attributed to humans, and the sisters are confirmed to not be humans. Now I will have to kill Quelana to find out if she fades away or not. Although that could be useless, since most hollows don't fade away...

    I've actually always wondered how it works with death. None of the "unique" npc's respawn, so are the undead we actually fight different each time, or do they respawn from the bonfire like we do?


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    Re: Exploring a few things. Posting some theorizing

    Post by DoughGuy on Sun May 13, 2012 10:16 pm

    They are the same. The NPCs do respawn however they are now mad hollows, detsrpying their own clothing and moving away from firelink. Thus they simply become the ordinary hollows you fight in game (thats my theory anyway).
    Are you sure the undead curse is limited to humans? I dont think Gwyn can be classified human and he goes hollow.


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    Re: Exploring a few things. Posting some theorizing

    Post by PlasticandRage on Sun May 13, 2012 10:29 pm

    Doesn't it say in the intro that the chaos fire that the witches release drives them all mad and alters them into something more bestial? And then Quelana says shes the only one who escaped in time? I don't interpret that as going hollow, I think they state outright that it's just plain madness


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    Re: Exploring a few things. Posting some theorizing

    Post by DoughGuy on Sun May 13, 2012 10:30 pm

    They were all mutated by the bed of chaos bar 2. Thats defunetily not in the intro.


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    Re: Exploring a few things. Posting some theorizing

    Post by Shkar on Sun May 13, 2012 10:45 pm

    DoughGuy wrote:They are the same. The NPCs do respawn however they are now mad hollows, detsrpying their own clothing and moving away from firelink. Thus they simply become the ordinary hollows you fight in game (thats my theory anyway).
    Are you sure the undead curse is limited to humans? I dont think Gwyn can be classified human and he goes hollow.

    If they destroyed their clothing and such, they would still have at least some remnants of it. It seems more likely to me that it is simply more hollows wandering into that area (most of the area takes place in a massive city, remember).

    As for it being restrained to humans, I have no proof. I believe I heard it referred to along the lines of 'the curse that afflicts humanity" or something like that.
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    Re: Exploring a few things. Posting some theorizing

    Post by PlasticandRage on Sun May 13, 2012 10:48 pm

    It's definitely somewhere. Does Quelana say it?

    Okay so I actually have another completely unrelated question/topic. I'm sure this must be something that's been tackled before, but I'm posting it anyway. So I'm looking through all of Oscar's Seek Guidance messages and I just came across the one that's in the chamber of the princess. It says "Try Projectile." This has to mean that Oscar wanted to destroy the illusion of Gwynevere right? So far my assumption has been that Oscar is a follower of Gwyn, but isn't destroying that illusion, and thus creating Dark Anor Londo, considered blasphemy for them? Like when you do it you start being hunted by the DM Blades immediately. What do you make of all that?


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    Re: Exploring a few things. Posting some theorizing

    Post by DoughGuy on Sun May 13, 2012 10:50 pm

    I'll check the intro to see what it says but I believe it says "living" not humanity. Any I think it wouldnt be worth progamming in such a small thing.
    Yep, says libing in the intro.
    @Plastic I was thinking abou tthat too. However that may be something against Gwyndolin and not the gods in general. We just cant pin down Oscar's allegiance just yet.


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    Re: Exploring a few things. Posting some theorizing

    Post by PlasticandRage on Sun May 13, 2012 10:53 pm

    I guess being moral doesn't necessarily mean following orthodoxy does it? Because I definitely tack him under a moral category. Which I guess is a bit of an assumption in itself because the only thing he really actively does in the game is give you the flask and die.

    I'd never really considered the possibility of him being a 'bad guy'
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    Re: Exploring a few things. Posting some theorizing

    Post by DoughGuy on Sun May 13, 2012 10:55 pm

    He is basically you, but a you who fails. Check out the "There's more to them" link in my thread if you want to see my research on him.


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    Re: Exploring a few things. Posting some theorizing

    Post by Shkar on Sun May 13, 2012 10:56 pm

    DoughGuy wrote:I'll check the intro to see what it says but I believe it says "living" not humanity. Any I think it wouldnt be worth progamming in such a small thing.
    Yep, says libing in the intro.
    @Plastic I was thinking abou tthat too. However that may be something against Gwyndolin and not the gods in general. We just cant pin down Oscar's allegiance just yet.

    Doh, of course. I completely forgot about the undead dogs in the lower burg...


    That being said, the city is actually large enough that I find it more likely that it is simply other undead walking around and spreading out (relatively, and subconsciously). The area simply has too much housing for there to be so few undead, and so far as we know it's not like there's anything going around killing them (except the sane NPC's).

    In fact, most of the things you would expect to kill them seem almost friendly. the rats, the undead dogs; heck, even the bridge wyvern doesn't burn them to cinders until you show up.
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    Re: Exploring a few things. Posting some theorizing

    Post by PlasticandRage on Sun May 13, 2012 10:57 pm

    DoughGuy wrote:He is basically you, but a you who fails. Check out the "There's more to them" link in my thread if you want to see my research on him.

    I've actually been bouncing in and out of that thread a lot lately. I tossed my own research on Luetrec in there the other day.

    Considering that he's on the same quest, and it's a quest that involves some moral choices, despite the fact that we've not yet been able to definitively say which of those choices are moral and which are immoral, he must have some kind of agenda. As the chosen undead eventually must too.
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    Re: Exploring a few things. Posting some theorizing

    Post by DoughGuy on Sun May 13, 2012 11:02 pm

    I'm more inclined to thikn he'd side with the age of fire. It just seems more fitting with his Astoran heritage and I honestly cant see him supporting the darkwraiths. HOWEVER i think even more than that he would do the third ending. What it is I dont know, but if theres one i'd say he wouldve done it.


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    Re: Exploring a few things. Posting some theorizing

    Post by JoeBroski09 on Sun May 13, 2012 11:05 pm

    I dont think he has the same two choices we have. Maybe he doesnt know the two endings. Do we know if the primordial serpants ever talked to him?


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    Re: Exploring a few things. Posting some theorizing

    Post by PlasticandRage on Sun May 13, 2012 11:12 pm

    DoughGuy wrote:HOWEVER i think even more than that he would do the third ending. What it is I dont know, but if theres one i'd say he wouldve done it.

    ahahaha.

    That's what I was thinking too, about the first part I mean. That he would be trying to restore the age of fire. Totally agree about Astora seeming to fit that particular bill. I think we can rightly assume, at the very least, that he had some kind of agenda. Seeing as he's an inhabitant of that world. Living a full life there, whether he'd talked to either serpents or not, he'd still have to have some basis for having an agenda. As opposed to the chosen undead, because they're played by us, we're just dropped into that world with no basis for anything.
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    Re: Exploring a few things. Posting some theorizing

    Post by DoughGuy on Sun May 13, 2012 11:15 pm

    @Joe check out the link i told Plastic to check out.
    @Plastic He is probably smarter than us lol.

    Off topic has anyone tried dropping the pendant in front of him before he suicides in the intro?


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    Re: Exploring a few things. Posting some theorizing

    Post by PlasticandRage on Sun May 13, 2012 11:17 pm

    I've actually spent the last few days running around Lordran with my menu opened to the pendant, watching the X across the use option from room to room. I've been dropping in front of everything/everyone. So far I'm to Sens fortress. Nothing yet.


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