Who is Sen?

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    Re: Who is Sen?

    Post by Wade_Wilson on Mon Mar 05, 2012 6:49 pm

    My sen build:

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    Iaito+15/+15 claws

    Eastern Helm, Elite knight chest and gauntlets, silver knight leggings

    Ring of fap, wolf ring


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    Re: Who is Sen?

    Post by EverlastingRat on Tue Apr 23, 2013 2:02 pm

    Gorgrim wrote:Not sure if this has been posted before but, Sens fortress is probably based on the actual Princess Sen, who lived in Himeji Castle. It was a fortified castle, with advanced defernsive systems from the feudal period in Japan. It still stands there today as a national historic site.Pretty cool eh? just wiki Himeji castle for more info.

    funny because I remember someone on these forums mentioning that Sen was a she, but if that is the inspiration then maybe that's true about the character in DkS...hmmm.... :?:


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    Re: Who is Sen?

    Post by IIdoneus on Tue Apr 23, 2013 11:53 pm

    I know that nobody will agree with me, but I think Sen is the Giant Blacksmith of Anor Londo. I think that he was more than just a blacksmith at some point. The giants who guard Sens are all the giants that helped him build the foretress. Again, stupid theory, I know, but that is what I beleive in my heart of hearts.


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    Re: Who is Sen?

    Post by The Baconater on Tue Jun 18, 2013 10:20 pm

    My theory about Sen is that he's the nameless blacksmith deity that created the titanite slabs. It may sound ridiculous, but it does explain why there are so many titanite demons, and why Sen is nowhere to be found.

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    Re: Who is Sen?

    Post by Fuzati on Thu Sep 05, 2013 1:20 pm

    User wrote:The Winged Demons that guard the citadel were just as illusionary as those of the sentients that guard it (the giants with the shields, if you do not know). The ones that lift you their are the real demons. As it were, they are not 'ordinary' demons, as they are the demons of god and not chaos (which explains why the 'real' ones don't tear you up mid-air. The ones who lift you ARE real, as they stay even after darkness shows its true form in Anor Londo. Almost everyone left the city, with the exception of few (some knights, the corrupted gwyndolin, some undead warriors, the sinner chests, and the Winged Demons).

    Hope that clarifies such beings
    This was stated as if fact, but it's really not.

    We know Gwynevere in Anor Londo is an illusion, and you kill her in one hit. If most of the enemies were also illusions, wouldn't they dissipate as soon as you hit them as well?
    I mean, Gywndolin is pretty good at magic, but maybe not good enough to sustain that many illusions at the same time, while making them all relatively tough and able to damage you.

    The most reasonable explanation to me, would be that after you destroy Gywndolin's illusion of his sister, the guards that stayed there to protect her just leave because they realize there's nothing left to protect. And the only ones that remain are those who know of Gywndolin's presence in Anor Londo.

    Also, calling him corrupted is a rather harsh judgement: he was raised as if he were a girl, because he was good at magic which was unusual for a male God. And then all of his family left for diverse reason, essentially leaving him behind in Anor Londo, forever alone.
    Yet, he maintained order on the realm with the illusion, and even managed to form a covenant that punish the sinners, because he thought that's what his father would have wanted.
    He could have just left and become a rogue deity, but he didn't.
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    Re: Who is Sen?

    Post by Zeta Prime on Thu Sep 05, 2013 1:36 pm

    I always thought sen would be a master architect that worked for the gods.


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    Re: Who is Sen?

    Post by GrinTwist on Thu Sep 05, 2013 1:38 pm

    Fuzati wrote:
    User wrote:The Winged Demons that guard the citadel were just as illusionary as those of the sentients that guard it (the giants with the shields, if you do not know). The ones that lift you their are the real demons. As it were, they are not 'ordinary' demons, as they are the demons of god and not chaos (which explains why the 'real' ones don't tear you up mid-air. The ones who lift you ARE real, as they stay even after darkness shows its true form in Anor Londo. Almost everyone left the city, with the exception of few (some knights, the corrupted gwyndolin, some undead warriors, the sinner chests, and the Winged Demons).

    Hope that clarifies such beings
    This was stated as if fact, but it's really not.

    We know Gwynevere in Anor Londo is an illusion, and you kill her in one hit. If most of the enemies were also illusions, wouldn't they dissipate as soon as you hit them as well?
    I mean, Gywndolin is pretty good at magic, but maybe not good enough to sustain that many illusions at the same time, while making them all relatively tough and able to damage you.

    The most reasonable explanation to me, would be that after you destroy Gywndolin's illusion of his sister, the guards that stayed there to protect her just leave because they realize there's nothing left to protect. And the only ones that remain are those who know of Gywndolin's presence in Anor Londo.

    Also, calling him corrupted is a rather harsh judgement: he was raised as if he were a girl, because he was good at magic which was unusual for a male God. And then all of his family left for diverse reason, essentially leaving him behind in Anor Londo, forever alone.
    Yet, he maintained order on the realm with the illusion, and even managed to form a covenant that punish the sinners, because he thought that's what his father would have wanted.
    He could have just left and become a rogue deity, but he didn't.
    Part of the reason why it's thought that some of the enemies that we fight are illusions is because of the inconsistancy of the winged demons that we see during the cutscene from Sen's fortress to Anor Londo. Remember, the only demon's that leave are the one's that are violent towards us the rest stay.

    As for the silver knights the reason for them (possibly) being illusions is because the knight's that Gwyn commanded over were sent to fight against the demons and eventually became black knights. We could say some were left to guard Anor Londo, but for what reason? Just to protect an illusion of Gwynevere? I'd think the knights of Gwyn would rather guard their Lord rather than guard an illusion that they have no allegiance to.

    As far as Gwyndoline being corrupted, I'll have to agree with you. He's not corrupted as trying to maintain an illusion of what was once Anor Londo.

    Also, welcome to the forums Fuzati.


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    Re: Who is Sen?

    Post by Sentiel on Thu Sep 05, 2013 1:41 pm

    You guys called?


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    Re: Who is Sen?

    Post by Thxodore on Thu Sep 05, 2013 2:24 pm

    *Slow, amused clap*
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    Re: Who is Sen?

    Post by Bassman Bob on Thu Sep 05, 2013 2:51 pm

    My theory is that sen is actually the "nameless" blacksmith diety. That would also explain the IRON golem.

    "When the nameless blacksmith deity passed,
    from several Slabs, great beasts arose.
    The power of titanite remains within them,
    and they still roam Lordran today."


    "Legendary Slabs are the heirlooms of a
    nameless blacksmith deity, who forged the
    weapons of other Gods. Weapons forged with
    this slab become rare legendary weapons."


    According to these descriptions, If sen had been the "nameless" Blacksmith deity it would also make sense that there would be titanite demons there. The demons having risen from the slabs, and the slabs being heirlooms of the "Nameless" Blacksmith diety (Sen).


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    Re: Who is Sen?

    Post by Thxodore on Thu Sep 05, 2013 3:06 pm

    Bob, your picture....will forever haunt me
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    Re: Who is Sen?

    Post by Bassman Bob on Thu Sep 05, 2013 3:09 pm

    Mission, f***ing. accomplished.


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    Re: Who is Sen?

    Post by Sentiel on Thu Sep 05, 2013 3:12 pm

    Thxodore wrote:Bob, your picture....will forever haunt me
    I admit that avatar is difficult to fap to. Difficult, but not impossible.

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    Re: Who is Sen?

    Post by xSomax on Thu Sep 05, 2013 9:14 pm

    i'd be willing to bet that the himeji castle interpretation is right, and probably why we don't talk about this as much as we do other things. its pretty simple for anyone that knows anything about japan, so they didn't feel need to actually mention it. if this interpretation is correct, then "Sen" is probably a woman. i suppose since the castle's got her name, she would be lady himeji in game? i dunno, thats just me being quirky. but anyways, i think thats the reason we don't get any discussion on this matter. just like the greatsword and a lot of other things were obviously from berserk, this was obviously a reference to himeji castle. thus, like the berserk likenesses, we didn't bother debating it. the only difference is that berserk is more known outside of japan than himeji castle.

    the lady himeji thing would be pretty neat though, to see if anyone actually gets the reference.


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    Re: Who is Sen?

    Post by theGentleman on Thu Sep 05, 2013 9:45 pm

    Sen's always makes me laugh. I was really excited to see what happens when I rang the second bell and just baffled/disappointed when all it did was cause a giant to yank on some chains. And I still cringe at the genius architects only means of lifting you a couple stories is to have these ugly bat demons manhandle you.

    I always imagined the inception of the fortress sounded something like:

    Gods: "Sen, we want to keep the riff-raff out of Anor Londo, we were hoping you could help."
    Sen: "So, like, an interview process or credit check?"
    Gods: "No, we were really hoping to keep it exclusive to people who could run through swinging blades or past giant boulders. Think you can do something with that?"
    Sen: "Sure, I could  . . . . build a fortress filled with them before you get to Anor Londo?"
    Gods: "Now you're thinking! How about arrows that shoot from the walls?"
    Sen: "Yeah, of course, I got lots of them! I even have these Man-Serpents that I haven't use for anything . . . and, oooh, we could make a Golem out of a dragons bone!"
    Gods: "Sweet, Sen! We knew you were the one for this job - now, to get in could you put in an automatic door and to get out could you put, like, an elevator or something?"
    Sen: "Let's not get too crazy, guys."
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    Re: Who is Sen?

    Post by The_Red_Drifter on Thu Sep 05, 2013 11:06 pm

    To be fair, they did have an archway for presumably entering, but some jerk bricked it up. As for the Manserpents, they most likely stole a few from Seath. They make good prison guards, you know.

    @Grintwist Well only one Silver Knight disappears from Anor Londo when it becomes dark. Their gear is more inclined to Dex based combat than the Black Knights as well. And what about Ornstein? Is he not real? Wouldn't the Silver Knights also follow his allegiance, given his status as a captain?
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    Re: Who is Sen?

    Post by theGentleman on Fri Sep 06, 2013 1:16 am

    Yeah, those Man-Serpents are the TSA of Lordran prison guards.
       They must have gone to the same training program as the Next-Gen Soldiers from MGS. "I'm on shift? Time for a nap!"
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    Re: Who is Sen?

    Post by SirArchmage on Fri Sep 06, 2013 2:49 am

    Sentiel wrote:
    Thxodore wrote:Bob, your picture....will forever haunt me
    I admit that avatar is difficult to fap to. Difficult, but not impossible.
    My reaction to that:

    And just so I am not simply posting spam..........



    Pretty sure that Black Knights and Silver Knights are two completely separate things. I like to think that the Silver Knights are the police(they guard the Cathedral, and before presumably the whole city) and the Black Knights are the army(heavier weaponry, armor, and followed Gwyn to the kiln).

    Agree with the theory that the demons that help you out first to get to Anor Londo are the real ones. It is the only way to make sense of the fact that you can simply push the other demons that do attack you off to their death, even though other ones JUST flew you over here.(though then again the Drakes at the Valley of Drakes fall off.......Great AI).

    From what I have seen, it appears that there was just a cave in where the entrance used to be. The place is thousands and thousands of years old. Who knows how many eons could have passed of it just sitting there. By all accounts, most of Anor Londo should be a pile of rubble. It is a pure miracle(heh heh......get it? City of the gods? Miracle? I'll shut up now.......) that only that was destroyed. Not sure who gave the memo to the demons to pick you up though.

    I do think that Sen and the Nameless Blacksmith being the same person has some credibility. There is very little information on both of them, with no NPC in the game even mentioning them. Either Sen and the Blacksmith were the same person, or the Blacksmith did some things around there to have left 4 whole slabs that turned into titanite Demons there.
    Likewise, I must note that saying they are the same person holds as much credibility as saying The Great Fireball Salaman(Quelaan's pupil) and King Jeremiah(invader in Painted World) are the same person. There is just so little info on any of these people that it is hard to say any one thing is true.


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    Re: Who is Sen?

    Post by Sentiel on Fri Sep 06, 2013 2:57 am

    I always thought that Black Knights used to be Silver Knights that left Anor Londo with Gwyn and got burned and deformed into their current state by fighting chaos demons and ultimately getting scorched when Gwyn linked the Fire.

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    Re: Who is Sen?

    Post by SirArchmage on Fri Sep 06, 2013 3:02 am

    Sentiel wrote:I always thought that Black Knights used to be Silver Knights that left Anor Londo with Gwyn and got burned and deformed into their current state by fighting chaos demons and ultimately getting scorched when Gwyn linked the Fire.
    They might, though I think they get a different title when they leave. Not only are they burnt, they use different weapons, are more aggressive, and have different armor. While they might have been silver knights, when they left with Gwyn, they got an upgrade.

    IMO.


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    Re: Who is Sen?

    Post by xSomax on Fri Sep 06, 2013 8:53 am

    on the note of jeremiah, i believe its been pretty much decided he's the "Yellow-clad conqueror" mentioned by the female NPC in the tower of latria in demons. he fits all of the qualifications, at the very least.

    yellow clad? check. his name, xanthous king jeremiah, also means yellow clad

    became a demon? close enough. uses chaos pyromancy, and thats technically demonic.

    went to other worlds? check. he'd certainly not be in his own, if this is true.

    tried to conquer them? well, he tried to conquer yours, didn't he? at the very least he attacked yours. 

    and then theres the fact that lordrans timeflow is so heavily distorted, making this even more plausible, simply because regular logic doesn't work.

    and just something i thought up, what if the painting for painted world is actually a portal to somewhere in the DeS world? considering we barely know **** about ariamis in and of itself, its at the very least possible. 

    anyways, yeah i agree with the thing about sen and NBD being the same dude, if sen was male. if female, i still stick to my earlier story. as for the demons, you are going there with the intent to cut a bloody swath, and they knew that. especially after what you did in sens. perhaps they were like "oh ****, this guys good. wanna help him out? he'll probably kill the gods for us. maybe. worth a try right? not like we lose anything. he may kill those other guys near that area with the archers and the long *** sheer drop, but i don't like them anyways. they're so agressive" at least, thats how i imagine the conversation going.


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    Re: Who is Sen?

    Post by Thxodore on Fri Sep 06, 2013 12:31 pm

    Sentiel wrote:I always thought that Black Knights used to be Silver Knights that left Anor Londo with Gwyn and got burned and deformed into their current state by fighting chaos demons and ultimately getting scorched when Gwyn linked the Fire.
    That could be the case, but why do they have different weapons? Different fighting styles, almost completely? They're related, but...I think they're at least in different classes of skill.
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    Re: Who is Sen?

    Post by Sentiel on Fri Sep 06, 2013 12:38 pm

    Well I guess their run of the mill SKSS wasn't enough to handle things like Taurus and Capra Demons.


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    Re: Who is Sen?

    Post by Thxodore on Fri Sep 06, 2013 12:56 pm

    So some changed weapons and some didn't, and stayed behind to protect Anor Londo?
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    Re: Who is Sen?

    Post by The_Red_Drifter on Fri Sep 06, 2013 3:57 pm

    Well the Silver Knight weapons work wonderfully in most cases, and are good at handling nefarious forces with their holy attributes, but the demons require something a bit different. The BK weapons are much heavier, in order to more easily stagger demons. And they have a bonus modifier against them as well.
    I think the BK were once normal SK, but after many losses it was decided a division or more needed to be specifically retrained to fight demons. I'm assuming the material for BK weapons is more scarce in Lordran than what is used for SK weapons, so they only trained the best they had.

    Most of this is based on conjecture on my end, so take what you will.

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