best fix for backstabs.

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    Glutebrah
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    best fix for backstabs.

    Post by Glutebrah on Tue May 08, 2012 4:22 pm

    quick some one send a letter to FROM.

    backstabs can only be done on an opponent who either

    A. is not locked on to you

    B. if they are locked on must be in an attack/cast animation/recoil. example two people just strafing locked on can not be Backstabbed, but if one swings those frames he is swinging and loses control of character he is able to be BSed.

    this will remove pivot/lag backstabs from the game and allow them to punish people who miss on attacks



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    Re: best fix for backstabs.

    Post by Wisp on Tue May 08, 2012 4:31 pm

    How about backstabs can only be done with weapons under a certain length. Or their power is inversely proportional to their length.
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    Re: best fix for backstabs.

    Post by Rynn on Tue May 08, 2012 4:33 pm

    Option A has been suggested by me at -least- 20 times.

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    Re: best fix for backstabs.

    Post by Wisp on Tue May 08, 2012 4:38 pm

    I like A the more i think about it really. It let's backstabs be used for their intended purpose, as stealth attacks.
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    Re: best fix for backstabs.

    Post by Glutebrah on Tue May 08, 2012 4:44 pm

    you implement both, A and B so you can still BS your opponent when he makes a mistake.


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    Re: best fix for backstabs.

    Post by Wisp on Tue May 08, 2012 4:45 pm

    But if he makes a mistake, you can still hit him you know...
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    Re: best fix for backstabs.

    Post by Forum Pirate on Tue May 08, 2012 4:45 pm

    They probably won't change anything. They'll simply rebalance things in the next one exactly like they did last time. Email them your ideas, Its probably more productive.

    @Wisp. you don't decide the mechanics intended purpose, from does. Unless you work for them and developed the game as a member of their team, you have no way of knowing what the intended purpose is.


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    Re: best fix for backstabs.

    Post by Glutebrah on Tue May 08, 2012 4:48 pm

    Wisp wrote:But if he makes a mistake, you can still hit him you know...

    daggers and rapiers would be useless then and no one would be afraid of swinging and missing against them


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    Re: best fix for backstabs.

    Post by Wisp on Tue May 08, 2012 4:49 pm

    Fair enough. But either way they got it wrong this time.

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    Re: best fix for backstabs.

    Post by Wisp on Tue May 08, 2012 4:49 pm

    Glutebrah wrote:
    Wisp wrote:But if he makes a mistake, you can still hit him you know...

    daggers and rapiers would be useless then and no one would be afraid of swinging and missing against them

    That's why my alternative was that only short weapons could backstab.
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    Re: best fix for backstabs.

    Post by Glutebrah on Tue May 08, 2012 5:08 pm

    Forum Pirate wrote:They probably won't change anything. They'll simply rebalance things in the next one exactly like they did last time. Email them your ideas, Its probably more productive.

    @Wisp. you don't decide the mechanics intended purpose, from does. Unless you work for them and developed the game as a member of their team, you have no way of knowing what the intended purpose is.

    really? you don't think my 1 post on a forum is going to make them patch the game in my liking??


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    Re: best fix for backstabs.

    Post by Forum Pirate on Tue May 08, 2012 5:18 pm

    I was trying to direct your ideas in a more productive direction. You don't want to listen, thats fine. Continue complaining here and accomplish nothing relevant to the mechanic in future patches/games.


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    Re: best fix for backstabs.

    Post by Glutebrah on Tue May 08, 2012 5:21 pm

    Forum Pirate wrote:I was trying to direct your ideas in a more productive direction. You don't want to listen, thats fine. Continue complaining here and accomplish nothing relevant to the mechanic in future patches/games.

    quality post right here. I didn't rustle your jimmies did i?


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    Re: best fix for backstabs.

    Post by FruitPunchNinja on Tue May 08, 2012 5:46 pm

    personally i think thats not a good idea. just opinion. i admit there should be some tweaking. i think maybe have it like this.

    1.can only land a bs if you are not locked on to the target(you can still land if your opponent is locked onto you)

    2.revamp the whole slingshot pivot mechanics and or minimize the hit box.

    so basically make it so you have to preform a non lock roll bs. not sure about the pivot mechanics this is more complicated then we think. changing the mechanics is im sure a very complicated process.
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    Re: best fix for backstabs.

    Post by Glutebrah on Tue May 08, 2012 5:47 pm

    FruitPunchNinja wrote:personally i think thats not a good idea. just opinion. i admit there should be some tweaking. i think maybe have it like this.

    1.can only land a bs if you are not locked on to the target(you can still land if your opponent is locked onto you)

    2.revamp the whole slingshot pivot mechanics and or minimize the hit box.

    so basically make it so you have to preform a non lock roll bs. not sure about the pivot mechanics this is more complicated then we think. changing the mechanics is im sure a very complicated process.

    thats a pivot backstab.... you unlock sprint towards them right as you pass pivot 180 degrees backstab. the easiest BS to perform imo, but also the easiest to prevent if you see a dude sprinting towards you roll sideways.


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    Re: best fix for backstabs.

    Post by FruitPunchNinja on Tue May 08, 2012 5:52 pm

    if its the easiest to prevent and easiest to preform that seems pretty balanced. wouldnt you agree? winking
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    Re: best fix for backstabs.

    Post by Imarreteet23 on Tue May 08, 2012 6:21 pm

    I was thinking of the whole backstab situation in class, (what a productive use of time, lol) and a quick nerf that might solve alot would be to make the Hornets Ring only apply to ripostes. And yes, this wouldn't really fix the problem, but nobody is going to get destroyed by a BS doing 1500 damage anymore if the Hornets Ring didn't improve BS damage. Thoughts?


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    Re: best fix for backstabs.

    Post by Glutebrah on Tue May 08, 2012 6:25 pm

    Imarreteet23 wrote:I was thinking of the whole backstab situation in class, (what a productive use of time, lol) and a quick nerf that might solve alot would be to make the Hornets Ring only apply to ripostes. And yes, this wouldn't really fix the problem, but nobody is going to get destroyed by a BS doing 1500 damage anymore if the Hornets Ring didn't improve BS damage. Thoughts?

    hornets ring is just dumb to begin with no one needs to do a 1700 riposte.


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    Re: best fix for backstabs.

    Post by FruitPunchNinja on Tue May 08, 2012 6:27 pm

    ehhh i agree the hornets ups the damage a ton, but you would just see a hell of a lot more people using str weapons like the BKGA fishing for bs. sometimes str weapons may seem like the person is using a hornets but really its just they scale well and increase dmg when 2handed.
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    Re: best fix for backstabs.

    Post by Forum Pirate on Tue May 08, 2012 6:42 pm

    yep, dgm will riposte for that w/o hring.


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    Re: best fix for backstabs.

    Post by BLA1NE on Tue May 08, 2012 7:42 pm

    My thoughts:

    - Something to do with lock-on, I agree. Not sure what, but I think it's completely retarded that, just by being locked-on to someone, you get free backstabs when the camera pivots. I'm leaning toward the "you have to not be locked-on to backstab".

    - Backstabs should NOT BE A GRAB ATTACK for the larger weapons. If a weapon is so slow to swing that your opponent would have time to roll away twice before the hit connects, that weapon should not be able to perform a grab attack that locks your opponent into place while the backstab animation is performed, just because the lock-on camera pivot placed their back in front of you for a split second.

    Instead, for larger weapons, hitting your opponent in the back would not be a grab attack, but it would get bonus damage. Condition: the deciding factor for this would not be whether the large weapon hit them in the back, but it would be your placement, when your attack hit, relative to your opponent's. That way you can't be standing in front of your opponent but hit them in the back with a great scythe for bonus damage--you'd need to be standing behind them to get the bonus damage.


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    Re: best fix for backstabs.

    Post by Carphil on Tue May 08, 2012 8:14 pm

    Backstabs are mostly frustrating. 1 vs 1, you sweat to lower the opponent HP to 10, then he goes and Pvot BS for 3000 damage. Its ridiculous.

    I agree with Glutebrah first idea and reduced critical for largers weapons.


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    Re: best fix for backstabs.

    Post by BLA1NE on Tue May 08, 2012 8:21 pm

    ^I know. I fought this guy today who was using a Chaos Zweihander (full giant's, MoM, etc. You get the picture)... I thought Joy I love fighting Zweis because they're so easy to parry! First attack he attempts, I parry--but the lag was bad because I took damage and got stunlocked even though I parried him, so I couldn't get the riposte. That was the only hit he got on me, then the fight went on, I whittled him down and he couldn't hit me as I was rolling. But then I got a strange roll because of camera angle, I rolled towards him, and he instantly backstabbed me for the kill. Like I said, he'd only got 1 partial hit on me before that, and the insta-backstab insta-killed me... Oh, I didn't mention I have 1800 HP. Look Skyward I just love how backstabs work right now.


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    Re: best fix for backstabs.

    Post by FruitPunchNinja on Tue May 08, 2012 10:52 pm

    yea i think from will do their very best to make it a balanced system. i really like your idea blaine, about how heavy str weapons basically preform a grab( i never even thought of it like that). it is extremely unrealistic. the idea of having them get extra dmg for positioning themselves behind you is a good idea. some variation of that would work very well i think. cause if you miss a backstab with a str weapon you still get decent dmg if you at least connect, but daggers and such dont do that much so missing is a major loss. when you say"you need to not be locked on" as in the person performing the bs or opponent receiving the bs has to not be locked on?
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    Re: best fix for backstabs.

    Post by BLA1NE on Wed May 09, 2012 1:52 am

    I meant the person trying to bs can't be locked on for it to work. Because, as it is now, it's the lock-on that's causing most problems; lock-on, your opponent's movement direction intercepts yours, which causes your locked-on camera to swivel to their back and *boom* instant-backstab. If you needed to be unlocked to backstab, at least you'd need to position yourself in order to be able to do it, rather than the lock-on camera do it for you.


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