The Min/maxing idealism

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    Serious_Much
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    The Min/maxing idealism

    Post by Serious_Much on Tue May 08, 2012 11:11 am

    "I constantly see folks with all the same gear on. Everywhere I invade. You know them. The min/maxers.

    This was discussed a bit in the Havel's poll thread. Are you willing to sell out your toon, wear what all the min/maxers are wearing, for a little extra stat-wise? I feel like the tiny bonuses provided from items like Mask of the Mother aren't going to save you from your skill level: adding an extra hit to your HP bar won't save you from 95% of encounters.

    So do you do it? Why?"

    Link to old discussion too see what others thought: http://soulswiki.forumsrpg.com/t169-min-max-selling-your-soul-for-15-hp

    Remebered this from a thread when this forum first started, but since the population has changed largely for the most part, I'd love to see how the newer members feel about this.

    Min/Max; Selling your soul for +15% HP, discuss.


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    Re: The Min/maxing idealism

    Post by Federally on Tue May 08, 2012 11:21 am

    My Dex build uses a full set of Wanderer gear +10 so I guess I'm not a Min/Maxer, but Wanderer kit looks great and fits her well.


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    Re: The Min/maxing idealism

    Post by Spurgun on Tue May 08, 2012 11:26 am

    i always choose looks over efficiency. except for the few times that i lose 99 humanity and god knows how many souls, then i go rampaging around in full havels and a DGA, i only do that in PvE though
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    Re: The Min/maxing idealism

    Post by Akatik on Tue May 08, 2012 11:41 am

    I actually refuse to do it simply because I want to make my guy unique. The new guy I'm playing is going to be wearing the Holy Robe all game long.

    So, I'd rather be different than min/maxing my skills.


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    Re: The Min/maxing idealism

    Post by mugenis4real on Tue May 08, 2012 11:41 am

    Mask of the Mother gives a significant boost when combined with Ring of Favor and Protection, but if the player would rather look nice instead of putting themselves at an obvious advantage then that's really up to the player.

    Personally I would feel dumb knowing that I could make myself stronger but choosing not to because I will look prettier in weaker gear.

    THIS IS JUST MY OPINION ON THE MATTER big grin
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    Re: The Min/maxing idealism

    Post by Federally on Tue May 08, 2012 11:44 am

    mugenis4real wrote:Mask of the Mother gives a significant boost when combined with Ring of Favor and Protection, but if the player would rather look nice instead of putting themselves at an obvious advantage then that's really up to the player.

    Personally I would feel dumb knowing that I could make myself stronger but choosing not to because I will look prettier in weaker gear.

    THIS IS JUST MY OPINION ON THE MATTER big grin

    Yeah that's all well and good but you look stupid and appearance is obviously more important, duh.


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    Re: The Min/maxing idealism

    Post by Majikero07 on Tue May 08, 2012 11:51 am

    I wanted to spice things up a bit with a new character because I got bogged down at Duke's with my pyro. Fighting with only a shortsword is great. Nice moveset as well, decent damage with a str/dex build.

    You won't discover this new stuff if you don't step out of your comfort zone. I never min/max in any game. Min/max gets boring fast when you do the same thing every time to get the best result.
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    Re: The Min/maxing idealism

    Post by RANT on Tue May 08, 2012 11:52 am

    i thought mix/maxing was about getting the most of the sl youre gonna cap your build at. if so then i am one of those but i hate wearing havel/giant armor becasue its so freaking ugly and theres other armor combos that give you the same protection(almost). i want my toon to look good, if it looks ugly as hell i cant have fun with it.


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    Re: The Min/maxing idealism

    Post by Seenblack on Tue May 08, 2012 12:05 pm

    I have always been one to wear heavy armor, but even from my first toon I was never a min/max player. Granted my first toon has all +5 Black knight's armor, I kinda built her from the beginning knowing that the set was somewhere haha.
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    Re: The Min/maxing idealism

    Post by Uparkaam on Tue May 08, 2012 12:22 pm

    For PVP, I wear what looks cool and is lightweight. I don't care much about the stats.
    For PVE, I wear something that fits within my equip burden. Don't really care about the looks then.


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    Re: The Min/maxing idealism

    Post by Rynn on Tue May 08, 2012 12:29 pm

    I feel it's a good experience to mini max a char at least once. Only then can you be fully aware of how a mini-maxed opponents stats and fighting style are likely to look. After this, I think it's a good experience to step out of your comfort zone, and try new things. It's why I'm fist fighting with a dragonoid right now.
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    Re: The Min/maxing idealism

    Post by Knight Alundil on Tue May 08, 2012 12:31 pm

    Im totally against min/maxing.

    It takes the variety out of the game if you ask me, it really does. I invade and host constantly, and literally 99% of people I see look exactly the same and use the same 100 or so items, so when I do meet someone who looks a little unique I consider it a treat!! Always try to make my own characters unique ofc, for example I decided to make a witch hunter so i restricted myself from using any magic items (Things like dusk crown included) and it really made me go outside the box!

    Also, I find it hard to imagine how people fill up 10 save slots on their game with 10 characters who are all, as you say, "Min/maxers".

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    Re: The Min/maxing idealism

    Post by PlasticandRage on Tue May 08, 2012 12:37 pm

    I've seen a lot of low level griefer hunters wearing mask of the mother, and I think it's forgivable under those circumstances. If that extra 15% could mean the difference between dying or taking a hit from one of the many lightning katanas in use in the burg/parish, and then going on to kill them, then by all means go for it. I never use it personally though. The only mask I do use is the mask of the child, and only on my high endurance build. That build also uses a coloranthy ring, grass crest shield, and green blossoms. The stacking effect coupled with 40 endurance worth of stamina and a BSS/thorn set rolls has proved to be really fun.
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    Re: The Min/maxing idealism

    Post by sparkly-twinkly-lizard on Tue May 08, 2012 12:41 pm

    from the sheer number of mask wearers in pvp today one can conclude that pinwheel is truly the most insidious boss in the game.

    also i tend to do cosplay builds when i play anymore so...


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    Re: The Min/maxing idealism

    Post by Knight Alundil on Tue May 08, 2012 12:43 pm

    sparkly-twinkly-lizard wrote:also i tend to do cosplay builds when i play anymore so...

    ^This^

    Have much more fun PvPing doing this than actually trying to build an awesome toon.

    Also, if anyone is interesting in this kind of dark souls playing check out my other thread pleeeease big grin -

    http://soulswiki.forumsrpg.com/t4807-complete-ic-runthrough-xbox-live
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    Re: The Min/maxing idealism

    Post by Serious_Much on Tue May 08, 2012 12:47 pm

    RantFromRant wrote:i thought mix/maxing was about getting the most of the sl youre gonna cap your build at. if so then i am one of those but i hate wearing havel/giant armor becasue its so freaking ugly and theres other armor combos that give you the same protection(almost). i want my toon to look good, if it looks ugly as hell i cant have fun with it.

    Min/maxing in the sense I am putting forth is the idea that you make the most use of your available equipment to create the strongest character you possibly can, getting boosts like poise from full tank armour, effects from masks and using huge elemental weapons or BKGA etc to maximise attack power, with only concern for winning.

    They don't care about that they look like or how they do it, they utilize equipment to sheerly have the numerical advantage, feeling it is all they need.


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    Re: The Min/maxing idealism

    Post by PlasticandRage on Tue May 08, 2012 12:50 pm

    Yeah that's definitely not something I've ever done. Even with my first builds. I use what feels comfortable, matched with the most functional armor I can live with aesthetically that will allow me to at least medium roll, depending on the build; that means sometimes with, sometimes without, havel's ring
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    Re: The Min/maxing idealism

    Post by RANT on Tue May 08, 2012 12:51 pm

    Serious_Much wrote:
    RantFromRant wrote:i thought mix/maxing was about getting the most of the sl youre gonna cap your build at. if so then i am one of those but i hate wearing havel/giant armor becasue its so freaking ugly and theres other armor combos that give you the same protection(almost). i want my toon to look good, if it looks ugly as hell i cant have fun with it.

    Min/maxing in the sense I am putting forth is the idea that you make the most use of your available equipment to create the strongest character you possibly can, getting boosts like poise from full tank armour, effects from masks and using huge elemental weapons or BKGA etc to maximise attack power, with only concern for winning.

    They don't care about that they look like or how they do it, they utilize equipment to sheerly have the numerical advantage, feeling it is all they need.

    i get it now, i call them tryhards. so sad really to see that every day, but i say let them think the bkga and elementals are op, it just makes it easier to parry them or beat them since they think all that equipment is gonna help them win every time.


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    Re: The Min/maxing idealism

    Post by GkMrBane on Tue May 08, 2012 12:55 pm

    I Hate to admit it but im a min maxer.

    I can’t help it for me its all about being efficient with my builds while I don’t where giants armor on any of my toons I do wear at least one if not 2 pieces of havel gear like the arms or the legs (never wear's the havel chest or helm) Like my current DMB Min/Maxer wears MOM mask BLK chest +5 and havel arms and legs while the new build I’m working on is planning to use the Knights chest piece +10 in order to maximize weight and stat points more effectively which will replace the black knight chest piece. is there something wrong with being more effective?

    Is the 1/3 times that someone who looks good and wins worth the 2/3 times that they died? not because of lack of skill but because of equipment.

    Edit: Ive only ever been caught in 20 parries. I think about only half of them killed me.

    20 out of hundreds of PVP battles I think im doing alright.


    Last edited by GkMrBane on Tue May 08, 2012 2:17 pm; edited 1 time in total


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    Re: The Min/maxing idealism

    Post by PlasticandRage on Tue May 08, 2012 1:00 pm

    I think Serious's argument is that the majority of the time people win based on skill, with equipment as a distant second. I can vouch for that too. I can't tell you how many times I've won fights against players who are wearing full giants with things like BKGAs, by kicking them off cliffs while wearing things like double cestus'.

    Also can't tell you how many times I've been completely destroyed by players using gear that's generally labelled as useless. Just last night I got annihilated by a double claw wielder in fact. Something I previously thought lacked value. He was amazing with them though. I couldn't counter him at all.


    Last edited by PlasticandRage on Tue May 08, 2012 1:04 pm; edited 2 times in total
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    Re: The Min/maxing idealism

    Post by RANT on Tue May 08, 2012 1:01 pm

    this has been said before but its true, i think its all about skill while armor does help you make a mistake here and there in the end if your opponent is better he will beat you. i jusr=t recently started weaing the dingy set with wolf ring(i dont wanna get stunlocked by a roll from kirk armor or a stright sword) and i win just as much as before.


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    Re: The Min/maxing idealism

    Post by Wade_Wilson on Tue May 08, 2012 1:03 pm

    The only sets of armour that I use are the Elite Knight and Black Iron, and I only use them because of how cool they are.


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    Re: The Min/maxing idealism

    Post by Forum Pirate on Tue May 08, 2012 1:19 pm

    Unless i have a specific rp reason not to, i get to 56 poise after that I don't care much. Some end up in giants+mom, some end up in full brass.

    Assuming maxed gear on both ends, skill is far more important than gear but I can hardly fualt anyone for taking an available advantage. I'm choosing not to in an attempt to avoid being reliant on my gear and to keep my dodging ability up to par, but others are not bound by my choice.

    In fact, if you truly believe skill decides most fights, then others gear choices shouldn't bother you, the fight was essentialy decided before it started, gear be damned, by your logic.


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    Re: The Min/maxing idealism

    Post by Serious_Much on Tue May 08, 2012 1:28 pm

    PlasticandRage wrote:I think Serious's argument is...

    I never gave an opinion or voiced what I did in this thread, all I did was state what a min/maxer is and why they generally equip themselves this way.

    Though if you want my opinion, it's in the original thread that i linked in my OP silly

    In PvE actually my SL80 helper build (that I did with Car) is actually a Min/maxed build (my first and only STR build), uses BKGA, wears full heavy armour using mask of father and has shield of Artorias. (I must admit is rocks in PvE, the BKGA is stupid powerful while being only a little slow)


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    Re: The Min/maxing idealism

    Post by skillbilly on Tue May 08, 2012 1:35 pm

    Is is too much to want it all?

    I think it takes skill to figure out a set that both looks good and provides your build with some statistical benefits. I don't min/max with MOM or MOF, for example, but I also don't deny the benefit of having poise, defense, and other statistical bonuses. I would say I'm somewhere in between a min/maxer, and someone who relies wholly on skill and looks. Its not wrong to want it all happy

    For example, on my faith/strength female toon I wear havels leggings and guantlets with the crown of dusk and dingy robe. With the crest shield this both looks good and enhances the way my toon was built. I can avoid some stunlock and magic damage, while still boosting my spells and staying under a weight that allows me roll quickly. Also, the crown of dusk shows off all the time i spent customizing her look (hair/skin color, facial features).

    The min/max build I find the most comical: Male toon using heavy armor like havel or giant set with crown of dusk! This looks so ridiculous. I see this regularly and feel obligated to tell the person how much their toon looks like a fairy.

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