What would you like to see improved in the next souls game?

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    JoeBroski09
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    Re: What would you like to see improved in the next souls game?

    Post by JoeBroski09 on Sun May 06, 2012 2:35 am

    Reaperfan wrote:Like I said before, bosses in Dark Souls just kind of boil down to "big scary thing trying to beat you up," where in Demon's Souls that was only true for maybe 60% of the bosses.

    Ok. I can dig that. I guess that makes sense.
    I always thought a boss was supposed to be some scary thing trying to beat you up haha! I think Ornstien and Gwyn aren't big, though. But that's kinda splitting hairs haha! Idk. I bought Dark Souls, and at release, everyone was saying "It's so completely intense and creepy. EVERYTHING is out to get you." And the bosses kind of fit that atmosphere.

    Back on topic. I think they should keep the limit casting system. I've played plenty of mana based RPG's, and mages ALWAYS end up being OP. Unlimited Super High damage from far away kind of overshadowed Archer and Melee classes in the end.
    That being said, I also want them to up the count of casts for spells that are useful. Not just have the useless spells have a high #. Fifty times nothing is still nothing haha!


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    Re: What would you like to see improved in the next souls game?

    Post by cloudyeki on Sun May 06, 2012 3:02 am

    JoeBroski09 wrote:Everyone here has played Demon Souls. sad



    Reaperfan wrote:=
    2. Demon's Souls boss creativity. I miss bosses like Maiden Astraea/Garl Vinland, the Old Monk, and the Armor Spider. In Dark Souls bosses kind of boil down to "big scary thing trying to beat you up."
    I haven't played Demon Souls, but gosh darn it would I let someone say that the bosses weren't creative. I've come from many MANY different video games, and Dark Souls has THE most creative bosses I've EVER seen. I mean, have you SEEN the gaping dragon?! I'm not trying to be rude or anything, (in fact, I have a smile on my face right now XD) but Dark Souls has SUCH amazing boss designs. Granted, I haven't seen Demon Souls, but I think it'd be hard to see more creative bosses without seeing repeats of those bosses you mentioned. I've seen design repeats, and it's not fun :|

    He means make the fights more than just monsters trying to kill you. Maiden Astraea was guarded by Garl Vinland, both look and act like NPCs. And depending on who you kill first the other commits suicide. Old Monk actually summoned another player to be the boss and would make the player randomly use homing soul arrows on you. Armor Spider was a fight to survive a tunnel of fire attacks to get to the actual spider.


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    Re: What would you like to see improved in the next souls game?

    Post by JoeBroski09 on Sun May 06, 2012 3:12 am

    cloudyeki wrote:Maiden Astraea was guarded by Garl Vinland, both look and act like NPCs. And depending on who you kill first the other commits suicide.
    Kinda reminds me of Smough and Ornstien. If you kill one, the other becomes a whole new boss, all depending on who you kill.

    cloudyeki wrote:Armor Spider was a fight to survive a tunnel of fire attacks to get to the actual spider.
    Kinda reminds me of Bed of Chaos.

    I'm not really trying to start a fight. But I feel like you guys aren't seeing some wonderful things about DkS that I see. 😢


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    Re: What would you like to see improved in the next souls game?

    Post by cloudyeki on Sun May 06, 2012 3:38 am

    Actually, bed of chaos' style was very similar to the dragon god fight in Demon's. You had to make a deathrun to 2 balistas and then slap it in the face. Literally.

    In all honesty I love both games bosses, but Demon's souls had more creativity with it's fights. Like the storm king fight, where you have to grab a sword that had a special power only in that area to help you win the fight. Or the tower knight where you could either go at it's legs a la iron golem, or you can go up the battlements to fire arrows or magic as it tried to do the same to you. Fool's idol (sticky white stuff ahead) you had to figure out how to stop her from reviving in order for progress. I really wished they had done alot more with the bosses in Dark Souls.


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    Re: What would you like to see improved in the next souls game?

    Post by FruitPunchNinja on Sun May 06, 2012 3:42 am

    lol why would you spoil the bosses for him.....let him play the game when he gets the chance.and joe dont get all anxious and go look up the bosses on yt. im guessing you have 360 and thats why you havent played demons yet right? if not and you have ps3 go buy it NOW its only like 14 bucks used.

    im surprised at the people saying to increase the amount of casts of the powerful spells and to have more aoe spells and stronger spells ext. seriously? i honestly would much rather they nerf miracles,spells,and pyro in the next game and make each of them have spells that are equal to the others. i will get pissed if they have some stupid fast casting aoe like wrath again. honestly i think demons souls would have been balanced almost perfectly if it werent for a few glitches like the running firestorm ext. if they take the best of both games and just really focus on balance in both pve and pvp it will be a masterpiece.
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    Re: What would you like to see improved in the next souls game?

    Post by JoeBroski09 on Sun May 06, 2012 3:50 am

    FruitPunchNinja wrote:lol why would you spoil the bosses for him.....let him play the game when he gets the chance.and joe dont get all anxious and go look up the bosses on yt. im guessing you have 360 and thats why you havent played demons yet right? if not and you have ps3 go buy it NOW its only like 14 bucks used.

    im surprised at the people saying to increase the amount of casts of the powerful spells and to have more aoe spells and stronger spells ext. seriously? i honestly would much rather they nerf miracles,spells,and pyro in the next game and make each of them have spells that are equal to the others. i will get pissed if they have some stupid fast casting aoe like wrath again. honestly i think demons souls would have been balanced almost perfectly if it werent for a few glitches like the running firestorm ext. if they take the best of both games and just really focus on balance in both pve and pvp it will be a masterpiece.

    I barely have any time as it is... And I'm content with Dark Souls. Oh, yeah, and I'm on the PS3. I bought it in anticipation for Kingdom Hearts 3.... (My favorite RPG series. Sorry =/) Anyway, I may eventually, if I get bored of DkS before the PC release. Oh, and I got friends who are playing a new MMO called TERA. Social Obligation blah blah blah

    I said add more counts to the useful spells. Not more Crystal Souls Spears or Crystal Homing Mass or even the normal versions. Just more counts of the one right below that? I guess I shouldn't be talking since the only things I know about sorcery were from my friend who co-op'ed with me for 80% of a playthrough. I DO think there should be a more variety of spells for INT. I think there are already a nice variety of Miracles and Pyromancies. I'd like Necromancy and Ice spells, too XD.

    And IDT it'd be a good idea to combine two existing games. I'm all about new content, new stuff. If they took away the stamina and/or bonfire system, I'd love that. I love the DkS system, but something new is always welcomed with me XD. Especially since I can go 6 months-1 year on one video game.

    EDIT: From what I hear about Demon Souls, it feels like Dark Souls isn't a sequel. It's simply a new game that's got some similar aspects, but almost completely different. Maybe it's because I only hear the differences *shrug* but it seems like the biggest similarity is the word "Souls" as the second word in their title. It seems like they're not comparable. Like Skyrim and DkS. (Lol at the IGN article that ended "Winner: Dark Souls")

    EDIT#2: And don't worry about him spoiling Demon Souls if I ever play it. If I get to the bosses he's talking about, I won't even know if they're the same haha! He's barely describing it at all. Which is good. He doesn't need to explain it extremely to make his point that there are a HUGE variety and creativity of Bosses in Demon Souls.


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    Re: What would you like to see improved in the next souls game?

    Post by FruitPunchNinja on Sun May 06, 2012 4:14 am

    joe, im sorry but we cant be friends :| lol im jk but seriously dont just blow off demons souls youll be missin out. and i wasnt sure what you meant by useful spells so i assumed you meant the more powerful ones. since they have less casts and the weaker have more.

    anyway its all opinion but i personally dont think souls games should focus too much on spells. I honestly think they need to limit the spells more then they do already. like you should not be able to have 12 or more casts of wog thats just stupidly overpowered which is why i havent had a single fight recently without the person showing me they have at least 6 casts of wrath. I think the spells should be like demons souls but limited like dks.

    and i understand not wanting to play a very similar game, but this isnt cod its an extremely original and theres no other games quite like it. I would be greatly disappointed if they made any drastic changes were made. think if the next kingdom hearts game didnt have disney characters or keyblades.
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    Re: What would you like to see improved in the next souls game?

    Post by Reaperfan on Sun May 06, 2012 4:23 am

    @Fruit: Miracles get Force/WoG, Emit Force, the Lightning Spears, and all the personal buffs/debuffs while Pyromancy has all the AoE fireball spells, Chaos variants, the Combustions, buffs like Iron Flesh and Power Within, the Acid Clouds, and even the really weird Undead Rapport. I think what Joe means is actually the same thing I was talking about with bosses. He wants to see more creative offensive sorceries. Right now they're pretty much just "raise staff, shoot projectile," and we need more non-standard offensive sorceries like Homing [Crystal] Soulmass and more AoE sorceries like White Dragon Breath.


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    Re: What would you like to see improved in the next souls game?

    Post by FruitPunchNinja on Sun May 06, 2012 4:51 am

    i can agree with that variety is good and personally i think dks has a pretty large variety of spells especially compared to demons souls. remember int also has hidden weapon and crystal magic weapon those are both offensive buff/spells. i just think from just needs to be careful of how they design their spells. wrath of god and twop look pretty cool and sound cool on paper but they are just too powerful for pvp which is strange cause they arent really that great for pve. i just had another night of getting only fights with people who spam wrath which idk if i have bad luck but those are the only fights ive been getting lately.

    i just personally think that every spell should require planning and skill for it to be effective rather then spells like wrath of god and great combustion where you pretty much can just spam it and be successful. fireball from demons was like this also you could kill most people just by spamming fireball.
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    Re: What would you like to see improved in the next souls game?

    Post by JoeBroski09 on Sun May 06, 2012 5:11 am

    I think WoG and all those other OP PvP spells should be limited in the same way Firestorm is limited. It's AMAZING, but it's a 1 time thing. Maybe don't limit WoG to 1, but 3 in a slot. Or force it to be in 2 slots like Chaos pyromancy. That way we have the awesome spells, but they've got the nerf they need. I once heard a friend say "Don't take it out of the game, and don't change the spell itself. Just change the cooldown." In this case, Attunement slots! Plus, what do you think of putting cooldowns on the future spells of the Souls sequel? I guess needing to wait for the next bonfire IS a cooldown in it's on way haha!


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    Re: What would you like to see improved in the next souls game?

    Post by Reaperfan on Sun May 06, 2012 5:16 am

    FruitPunchNinja wrote:i can agree with that variety is good and personally i think dks has a pretty large variety of spells especially compared to demons souls. remember int also has hidden weapon and crystal magic weapon those are both offensive buff/spells

    It's true that magic in general has become much more varied, but remember that in Demon's Souls Int builds had access to what was essentially both sorceries and pyromancies. Splitting those up left actually very little variety in Int casting. It's true you get certain buffs, but buffing isn't exclusive to Int, and it's still the weapon being used for combat as opposed to the spell. I guess that's what I mean by directly offensive sorceries, is that the sorcery itself is the attack, as opposed to it providing utility or damage to another combat source. That being said, besides the Homing Soulmasses and White Dragon Breath, Int has very little in terms of direct offense that isn't just Soul Arrow with slightly different strengths or casting times. I guess you can argue Soul Spear pierces enemies and is technically an AoE, but realistically it's only used as the most powerful of the Soul Arrow type spells.

    Long story short, give Int some damaging spells that aren't just Soul Arrow!


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    Re: What would you like to see improved in the next souls game?

    Post by JoeBroski09 on Sun May 06, 2012 5:26 am

    Reaperfan wrote:Long story short, give Int some damaging spells that aren't just Soul Arrow!
    Amen to that!
    I think INT should have access to the most variety and strongest spells.
    Faith should be mostly heals that make staying alive throughout the game MUCH easier. Not just a little convenience (Some tweaks to the gameplay may be needed Like less bonfires or nerfing estus flasks). And some other damage spells for some ranged variety on your character, and the damage and variety of these spells should be behind the INT spells.
    And there should be a non-stat spell system that isn't as powerful.

    This way, if someone wants to be a full mage, they can, if someone wants to be a full priest, they can, and if someone wants to be a warrior with a little magic back-up, they can. This way there are no full melee full pyro characters with TWO ways to do MASSIVE damage.


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    Re: What would you like to see improved in the next souls game?

    Post by SlakeMoth on Sun May 06, 2012 6:23 am

    Yikes! I've read through all the posts (and waded through some of 'em) and all I can add is this.

    I played Demon's Souls three times and am currently playing Dark Souls with two characters, one new and one on new game+.

    I think the bosses in both games have their merits, except perhaps BoC, I can't think of a good word to say about that, but that's because it's such a b*****d and I'm such a klutz. I'm not a hotshot gamer like some of you and any progress I make is made the hard way, through persistence and now and again sheer good luck.

    Unlike some of you, I LOVE BOWS and use them a lot in Dark Souls which brings me to the only thing which p****s me off which is:-

    There is absolutely no point in making a Fire Bow or a Lightning Bow in Dark Souls because they don't in themselves cause any elemental damage as far as I can see, unlike the Lava Bow in Demon's Souls which I thought was ace. Why is this? It makes no sense to me at all. This is the only thing I would change if I could. Rant over.
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    Re: What would you like to see improved in the next souls game?

    Post by JoeBroski09 on Sun May 06, 2012 6:25 am

    SlakeMoth wrote:Yikes! I've read through all the posts (and waded through some of 'em) and all I can add is this.

    I played Demon's Souls three times and am currently playing Dark Souls with two characters, one new and one on new game+.

    I think the bosses in both games have their merits, except perhaps BoC, I can't think of a good word to say about that, but that's because it's such a b*****d and I'm such a klutz. I'm not a hotshot gamer like some of you and any progress I make is made the hard way, through persistence and now and again sheer good luck.

    Unlike some of you, I LOVE BOWS and use them a lot in Dark Souls which brings me to the only thing which p****s me off which is:-

    There is absolutely no point in making a Fire Bow or a Lightning Bow in Dark Souls because they don't in themselves cause any elemental damage as far as I can see, unlike the Lava Bow in Demon's Souls which I thought was ace. Why is this? It makes no sense to me at all. This is the only thing I would change if I could. Rant over.

    Short rant haha!... Maybe I just type too much. Hahahahahah!


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    Re: What would you like to see improved in the next souls game?

    Post by Serious_Much on Sun May 06, 2012 8:28 am

    Right then.. I touched upon demon's versus Dark souls a while ago and I'll put in my opinion..

    They are both great, but I think Dark is a vast improvement off of the foundations Demon's laid. Poise? Covenants? Magic/healing limits? Open world? A lot of the basic concepts in Demons were expanded upon in Dark, and really it is more of a complete game and knows what it's doing more than Dark does.

    However.. There are parts of demons I yearn for. Creative bosses is one of them. Armour spider fighting in a tunnel, phalanx as a boss, invincible fools idol, a PvP boss! It was great honestly, but the bosses are overall easier on Demon's than Dark (Except flamelurker and allant, they were up to scratch). The use of boss souls too was better in demons, as well as variety in the upgrade system.

    I would love to see in another game most of all more1 ingenuity in the boss fights/boss soul uses and a better upgrading system. Maybe another magic type?


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    Re: What would you like to see improved in the next souls game?

    Post by FruitPunchNinja on Sun May 06, 2012 2:45 pm

    joe thats actually a really good idea having cooldown on certain powerful spells. Ive said before that wrath should take two slots but that honestly would still leave it being op. having a cooldown in between might be good, or it might just make people get better at timing wrath lol. i think maybe a cooldown or a longer start up or both would be a good idea for a few spells.

    i have to remember no everyone does pvp, and a lot of people want to be full mages or clerics ext. I get that and its understandable, but i just dont think pvp should get the short end of the stick cause of that. I like that they had things like vow of silence making it so no one could cast. i would probably be fine with op spells if say they had an area where it was melee only( a decent size and interesting one) that would be perfect. that would kinda seem out of place tho and of course the people who like to play pure casters would hate the idea im sure.
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    Re: What would you like to see improved in the next souls game?

    Post by cloudyeki on Sun May 06, 2012 3:13 pm

    I want my mercury upgrade again!


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    Re: What would you like to see improved in the next souls game?

    Post by JoeBroski09 on Sun May 06, 2012 5:19 pm

    I think it's be AWESOME if they brought in a new way to direct your attacks. It may change some of the "moveset" part of the game, but it'd put a HUGE depth to the melee. I love using my own skill to do a jumping strong attack, thus doing more damage with a faster attack. Why don't you add more of those? Add a side sweeping attack to try to get around shields, add an upward attack for every weapon. Could you imagine the skill it'd take to wield a dagger? But if you could master all the directions a moves a dagger would have, you could slash through and around shields and completely dominate enemies. Thus adding a reward to skill in this game. What do you guys think? It'd be pretty difficult to incorporate, and it'd have to be a challenging like being able to kick reliably. But it could be a great new aspect to the game.

    EDIT: I'm not trying to take credit for any new idea. I probably wasn't the first to think of this.


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