Worried About Gaming's Future

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    Re: Worried About Gaming's Future

    Post by Extertionist on Sat May 05, 2012 11:03 pm

    I hate E.Y.E, it is far to confusing and the stealth aspect of the game is complete and utter ********.


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    Re: Worried About Gaming's Future

    Post by his1n- on Sat May 05, 2012 11:10 pm

    It is badly programmed, uses the worst engine on earth and just copies Deus Ex as badly as possible.
    But I didn't say it's a great game, actually, I only said one thing: it's a hard game. And as far as an FPS actually CAN be hard, E.Y.E gets it right.
    32 player coop and still missions can seem almost unfinishable... without being unfair. Without actually making you think you are just at the wrong side of the battlefield.
    It's the ONLY fair, hard FPS ever made, these are my words. And I don't exaggerate when I say, I played them all.
    And even if I flamed the engine just some seconds ago, the hitboxes are gorgeous, as always when using Source Engine. (well... actually it's a very good, stable and gorgeous engine, but the loading times and the tendency to crash when loading got on my nerves far, too, often)


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    Re: Worried About Gaming's Future

    Post by skarekrow13 on Sat May 05, 2012 11:30 pm

    To be fair, I also indicated wonky controls as part of the hard factor and the f zero series had plenty of that. Also I would say some old arcade racing games as tougher than that one. Learning curve? Spy hunter. Fast twitch reflex? Spy hunter. Although honestly I wasn't considering racing games in my original statement. Some of them have amped up difficulty to master but I still haven't seen on too many modern ones that were hard to beat. Gran Turismo is a good example. The races get incredibly difficult and that s license is a pain. My original point though was rpg and action games. For example, Skyrim gets a bad rap which is mostly deserved for how easy it can be. However I have ran into several opponents I couldn't just pummel. I had to adapt strategy like hiding behind a door I had the only lever to. While racing has plenty of strategy it still requires you to drive the predetermined course. Deviating from that entirely is more what I meant. As for the other examples you mentioned again, mastering can be the pain, but not beating them. I agree older games were harder overall and that newer games have been deliberately made easier to reach a broader audience.

    However, there's a confound in the argument to be sure. The old measure was to finish the game. By this standard new games in general fall way short of the mark. Dark Souls vs Battle Toads? Not even a contest. Where new games makes up for out though are the things after you finish the story. know numerous gamers who beat the first two ninja gaiden games with me. And battle toads and so forth. I know far fewer who have all the rag doll kung fu trophies and that game was crazy easy to beat.

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    Re: Worried About Gaming's Future

    Post by Yukon on Sat May 05, 2012 11:40 pm

    Ragdoll kung-fu trophies were crazy scarekrow just crazy, I don't care to platinum it but the game was a fun distraction with friends over.

    I think games had to adapt, think about it. When games first came out they had to be hard because they needed to make money, if you could play on one quarter (.25) then they were not doing it right. You had to spend money to enjoy the game. When consoles came out, and games for PC, there wasn't a whole lot of memory on the carts or floppies you bought, so they had to make up for THAT by making the game difficult enough for you to enjoy it for a few hours, since they were expensive little things!

    Now, gamers have grown up they have families, jobs, or maybe school and he audience has grown. I am sure skare has some games for his daughter to play. Gaming shouldn't be smash your head into a wall difficult, its meant to be a break from the day, something everyone can sit down and enjoy. Games that are hard to todays standards may not be hard in the same sense as games back then, you don't need rote memory to play dark souls, you have wide customization and you can adapt. Where games do become difficult is when they stray from the path set up now of HOLDING HANDS. Dark souls is hard because it doesn't tell you what to do, it gives you the nitty gritty and says good luck, this was someone common in older games too, and it makes things harder without making them mindnumbing.
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    Re: Worried About Gaming's Future

    Post by Serious_Much on Sat May 05, 2012 11:41 pm

    Reaperfan wrote:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BnyVo3XWqV0

    This seems somewhat relevant actually. It's about Demon's Souls but it all applies very easily to Dark Souls just as well, and the ideas about its use of difficulty are great.

    lol pornstar award lol!

    But also he was pretty funny, though not sure if he may have overstated it's difficulty a tad. Especially with the boss tower knight, he was pathetic silly

    I never realised about the idea behind not being able to level up on the first area of demons, I think would be good to add in that feature again, like say on the next game you have to get a boss soul to be able to level up... hmmm


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    Re: Worried About Gaming's Future

    Post by skarekrow13 on Sat May 05, 2012 11:46 pm

    Great points Yukon. Also, my daughter loves flash cards on my phone and the sounds birds make when they're angry

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    Re: Worried About Gaming's Future

    Post by his1n- on Sat May 05, 2012 11:48 pm

    Well I guess I consider requirements to master a game being strictly part of the difficulty too, which leads to my opinion that F-Zero GX beats them all. The extent of what can be done is one of the first things I look for when playing a game.

    Elseway I give you a +1 for your post, mentally. I would literally, if I could, Skare.


    Add:
    Certainly I can raise, "mastering" was "beating" the game back then. As Yukon raised them, the arcade games.
    A very good example are the Bullet Hells. Beat eXceed 3rd? No problem. Beat it without damage? Holy. Beat it on the highest difficulty, keeping the combo at all times, with auto-bomb off? A casual would suicide instantly.
    But this is considered beating an arcade game, maximizing score.
    Nowadays games don't make you feel like you have to maximize anything. This is why a huge load of Dark Souls players run around with Giant's, spamming WotGs, TWoPs, Washing Pole, etc. They found the easiest way to survive... what else do they need?
    Honor? Skill? Style? What is this? Dark Souls simply wants me to survive, and this is what I am doing, period.

    After you beat a modern game it's just too easy to think that you also mastered it. Many players fall for that.


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    Re: Worried About Gaming's Future

    Post by Rynn on Sun May 06, 2012 12:43 am

    his1n- wrote:Well I guess I consider requirements to master a game being strictly part of the difficulty too, which leads to my opinion that F-Zero GX beats them all. The extent of what can be done is one of the first things I look for when playing a game.

    Elseway I give you a +1 for your post, mentally. I would literally, if I could, Skare.


    Add:
    Certainly I can raise, "mastering" was "beating" the game back then. As Yukon raised them, the arcade games.
    A very good example are the Bullet Hells. Beat eXceed 3rd? No problem. Beat it without damage? Holy. Beat it on the highest difficulty, keeping the combo at all times, with auto-bomb off? A casual would suicide instantly.
    But this is considered beating an arcade game, maximizing score.
    Nowadays games don't make you feel like you have to maximize anything. This is why a huge load of Dark Souls players run around with Giant's, spamming WotGs, TWoPs, Washing Pole, etc. They found the easiest way to survive... what else do they need?
    Honor? Skill? Style? What is this? Dark Souls simply wants me to survive, and this is what I am doing, period.

    After you beat a modern game it's just too easy to think that you also mastered it. Many players fall for that.
    ...And then we backstab them. instead of deciding they need to get better, they just call us 'cheap' and never improve. That's purely what is wrong with games these days <3. The gamers, rather then the game.
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    Re: Worried About Gaming's Future

    Post by skarekrow13 on Sun May 06, 2012 1:21 am

    Amen his1n- and Rynn.

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    Re: Worried About Gaming's Future

    Post by Azran on Sun May 06, 2012 5:12 am

    I was going to post something here, but then I saw Yukon covered all my points rather nicely. silly

    Gaming as a industry is advancing. We've got secondary media based on games, ranging from books and films to boardgames and music. This was pretty much unheard of just a decades ago. Games are that, games. Most of the people that play games are in just for the relaxing part. If a person buys a game, he expects to be able to finish it, be this to beat the main story or to reach a certain online skill cap.
    Games should be something people can get into without problems, and enjoy them. The greater number of "casuals" (ugh, I hate the very concept of it) isn't going to murder the hardcore component, which is something a lot of people don't get.

    I don't think the Souls series are "hard" or "brutal", as the gaming media puts it. It's just a game that expects you to adapt in regards to what you learn about the situations that present themselves in the game. Which is something not many people are used to. When they hear that the bells they've got to ring are above and far, far below, they are expecting an arrow pointing towards the objective. Dark Souls scraps that concept, and replaces it with a very, very simple one: you shall get rewarded if you explore enough.

    Though some mechanics can actually go from "huh?" to "why isn't this explained somewhere" sometimes.

    But! http://www.cdn.actiontrip.com/images/comics/at_comic453.jpg

    Edit: Uh, I hope my post makes some kind of sense. I'm kind of sleepy and English isn't my native language. silly


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    Re: Worried About Gaming's Future

    Post by Serious_Much on Sun May 06, 2012 8:15 am

    I don't understand but I'll ask anyway, what is up with so many people hating casual gamers? Honestly don't understand it, just sounds like people being pretentiously elitist.


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    Re: Worried About Gaming's Future

    Post by skarekrow13 on Sun May 06, 2012 10:08 am

    I think there's fear that the industry will cater to casual games to the exclusion of all others. I know I read about sixty obituaries for the vita before it was even released. Most of them said the age of the tablet killed it before it was born. Some articles even went so far as to include consoles as soon to be deceased relatives.

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    Re: Worried About Gaming's Future

    Post by Serious_Much on Sun May 06, 2012 10:19 am

    skarekrow13 wrote:I think there's fear that the industry will cater to casual games to the exclusion of all others. I know I read about sixty obituaries for the vita before it was even released. Most of them said the age of the tablet killed it before it was born. Some articles even went so far as to include consoles as soon to be deceased relatives.

    lol, if tablet gaming takes over consoles pigs will be flying and the north pole will turn to a sweltering desert. The controls just don't work very well compared to controllers, and their processing power is inferior too. They can play games, but they are of a different kind to conventional console games.

    Well, frankly catering to the majority is what happens generally in the world.. It's not just gaming but politics and other industry. I see nothing wrong with it as long as there's always something/someone to challenge the stereotype and trend.


    Last edited by Serious_Much on Sun May 06, 2012 11:42 am; edited 1 time in total


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    Re: Worried About Gaming's Future

    Post by skarekrow13 on Sun May 06, 2012 10:24 am

    I'm with you. I enjoy my smart phone games but they're fun for short bursts only. My playstations are in a different league

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    Re: Worried About Gaming's Future

    Post by Forum Pirate on Sun May 06, 2012 11:40 am

    Serious, look up the definition of desert. The north pole is a textbook example of a harsh desert.


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    Re: Worried About Gaming's Future

    Post by Serious_Much on Sun May 06, 2012 11:42 am

    Forum Pirate wrote:Serious, look up the definition of desert. The north pole is a textbook example of a harsh desert.

    You know what I mean, don't be awkward for the sake of it silly

    Also, I changed the word to sweltering just so it's clear what I mean, stop being so pedantic lol!


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    Re: Worried About Gaming's Future

    Post by skarekrow13 on Sun May 06, 2012 11:56 am

    Should that be "pendantic" for this forum?

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    Re: Worried About Gaming's Future

    Post by Serious_Much on Sun May 06, 2012 12:10 pm

    nah, pendantic is a term I save for Cook and Glyph, who really are pendantic, they're looney over the stupid pendant.


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    Re: Worried About Gaming's Future

    Post by Azran on Sun May 06, 2012 4:37 pm

    I hope you didn't mean me, Serious. When I said I hated the word "casual", I meant that I hated the sheer elitism in which the word is soaked. silly


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    Re: Worried About Gaming's Future

    Post by Serious_Much on Sun May 06, 2012 5:09 pm

    Azran wrote:I hope you didn't mean me, Serious. When I said I hated the word "casual", I meant that I hated the sheer elitism in which the word is soaked. silly

    No not you, not anyone specifically but I always see people talk about casual gamers and say it's them that ruin online since they are the gankers and the like on Dark and they ruin gaming because people cater to casuals, it's complete nonsense. The elitism kind of shocks me as the kind of community that makes up gamers I wouldn't think would shun people to be honest. Yes it is very much an elitist ideal really silly

    Also people who are actually casual gamer haters im 100% casual gamer, yet im still not a giant douche who ruins things, please dont blame me big grin


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    Re: Worried About Gaming's Future

    Post by Reaperfan on Sun May 06, 2012 6:34 pm

    Always one to find old videos to still be of value, this seems quite relevant.


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    Re: Worried About Gaming's Future

    Post by SlakeMoth on Sun May 06, 2012 7:15 pm

    The hardest game I've ever played (or attempted to play) was Metroid Prime2-Echoes on the Game Cube. Far harder than Dark Souls in my opinion.
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    Re: Worried About Gaming's Future

    Post by WorldSlayerPIKA on Mon May 07, 2012 7:29 am

    his1n- wrote:
    Also, give me some good up to date games that are hard, seriously I'd like to give some a try happy (Older games are a little out of my possible range), Oh and they need to be console games.

    Sadly you are talking to a (mainly) PC gamer, but however, you might wanna try stuff like:
    Action:
    - Ninja Gaiden (Sigma)
    - Ninja Gaiden (Sigma) 2
    (The Sigmas are a bit easier than the originals)

    Not that easy:
    - Devil May Cry 3
    - Armored Core (series, got a bit easier by every title, #5 rather relies on knowledge than handspeed)
    - Shank (only hard because pretty much all and everything has super armor, GODDOMMOD)
    - Shank 2

    Turn-based:
    - Resonance of Fate

    Racing:
    - Wipeout HD (Fury)
    Getting through the singleplayer is only hard because random weapon pickups always lead to the CPU being at an advantage... but without weapons this game is incredibly competitive and has a strong community.

    Shooter:
    Mark my words... no shooter is hard, either idiotically unfair or plain child's play.
    E.Y.E Divine Cybermancy is the closest thing to be called hard yet, but it's a PC-exclusive.

    Open-world:
    These are always for casuals. Except Souls :p .

    Shoot 'Em Up:
    You'll have to go PC...
    however, the newly released title called Velocity is pretty fast and has a nice difficulty-curve, starting absolutely easy and raising constantly.


    The probably hardest game to be played which can still be considered modern is 100%ly F-Zero GX.
    Get a Wii, get a GC-controller, get this game... and experience what it means to have to learn.

    How do rate Fallout? Fallout New Vegas has this strange Hardcore mode I only played a few minutes till it got too hard... :oops: I probably did not try enough, but why should I play a too hard game?!

    Do you like Jump and Run? LIMBO is a good challenge! Can you beat the game with only a handful of deaths?


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    Re: Worried About Gaming's Future

    Post by Reaperfan on Mon May 07, 2012 12:09 pm

    Hardest game ever is Catmario. Just saying winking


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    Re: Worried About Gaming's Future

    Post by Azran on Mon May 07, 2012 2:17 pm

    I've heard terrible, terrible things about La-Mulana's difficulty too. silly


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