Changes and additions to the upgrade system.

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    Wade_Wilson
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    Changes and additions to the upgrade system.

    Post by Wade_Wilson on Sat May 05, 2012 7:49 pm

    Additons: +10 Raw. This would completely eliminate the scaling bonus from a weapon for a large increase in raw damage, retaining the ability to be buffed. The upgrade path would use regular chunks and require a slab for +10.

    Distinction upgrade path: From +5 Raw, it would increase the scaling bonus of the highest modifier and eliminate the lower one. (e.g it would eliminate the dexterity scaling from a zweihander and increase the strength scaling to B/A/S) Again using chunks and slabs. Lowers the weapons maximum durability but does not remove the ability to be repaired.

    Changes: Magic and enchanted weapons increase the power of spells when held and a catalyst used in left hand, with the same for divine/occult weapons and miracles.

    Crystal weapons cause the durability on all your opponents equipped items to be lowered.

    Just some thoughts I had about the upgrade system.
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    Re: Changes and additions to the upgrade system.

    Post by Imarreteet23 on Sun May 06, 2012 1:17 am

    Also, there should be some sort of major distinction between divine and occult. So, maybe like (and this isn't my idea) have the occult weapons have hp suck, like the Server, and have divine weapons restore a small amount of hp to a phantom if you hit them with it. Or somthing like that.


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    Re: Changes and additions to the upgrade system.

    Post by PlasticandRage on Sun May 06, 2012 1:24 am

    The only one I still don't feel like I fully understand is fire/chaos. It seems like in every sense chaos is fire's superior, where I feel like all other paths have some kind of edge. Doesn't seem right that there would be one that doesn't


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    Re: Changes and additions to the upgrade system.

    Post by Imarreteet23 on Sun May 06, 2012 1:28 am

    Well, I don't think that magic has any advantage over enchanted, does it? But I do agree with you. If you have fire, you might as well go chaos.


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    Re: Changes and additions to the upgrade system.

    Post by Rynn on Sun May 06, 2012 2:07 am

    Personally, I feel Crystal should be repairable, but have MASSIVELY bloated repair costs, to where the 20 durability takes 10,000 souls total to repair.
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    Re: Changes and additions to the upgrade system.

    Post by PlasticandRage on Sun May 06, 2012 2:12 am

    Imarreteet23 wrote:Well, I don't think that magic has any advantage over enchanted, does it? But I do agree with you. If you have fire, you might as well go chaos.

    Magic adds a small INT scale and doesn't hurt your weapon's STR/DEX scaling that badly, while enchanted gives a large boost to INT scaling and moderately hurts your weapon's STR/DEX scaling. So magic is more for if you're STR/DEX over INT build, where enchanted is if you're more of an INT over STR/DEX build.

    And then, aside from being able to kill skeletons in the Catacombs, I understand that Divine/Occult have different strengths depending on different kinds of phantoms you fight. Although I won't pretend to know the specifics there. Fire/Chaos just doesn't make sense to me. I've heard a bunch of theories but none seem to add up too spectacularly
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    Re: Changes and additions to the upgrade system.

    Post by BLA1NE on Sun May 06, 2012 2:29 am

    Rynn wrote:Personally, I feel Crystal should be repairable, but have MASSIVELY bloated repair costs, to where the 20 durability takes 10,000 souls total to repair.
    Crystal definitely needs some changes. As it is, it's practically useless.

    I think it should either reduce the durability or make equipment not repairable--not both!


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    Re: Changes and additions to the upgrade system.

    Post by PlasticandRage on Sun May 06, 2012 2:32 am

    or reduced the durability of your opponents gear with each attack. The Scraping Spear, while pretty obnoxious, was awfully effective


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    Re: Changes and additions to the upgrade system.

    Post by Reaperfan on Sun May 06, 2012 2:43 am

    My thoughts for Raw have always been quite simple actually. Upgrading down raw would not change the scaling at all, but have a higher increase in base damage per upgrade level. Weapons would still have a bit of scaling, but not need as much stat investment. Another idea is that they could keep Raw weapons' damage as it is now (ie: underpowered), but upgrading down the Raw path would increase a weapon's potential to break poise and stunlock.

    I also support the idea of Crystal weapons having increased repair costs, but maybe not just increased soul costs. I'm thinking more like additional costs to repair it with titanite, similar to how "Resist Curse" also costs a humanity to cast. Something like every 20 durability to repair a Crystal Weapon costs 1 Twinkling titanite/titanite Chunk and some souls. What we don't need is for it to break opponents' gear, the last thing we want is to see the return of the Phalanx build...


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    Re: Changes and additions to the upgrade system.

    Post by Rynn on Sun May 06, 2012 3:07 am

    Reaperfan wrote:My thoughts for Raw have always been quite simple actually. Upgrading down raw would not change the scaling at all, but have a higher increase in base damage per upgrade level. Weapons would still have a bit of scaling, but not need as much stat investment. Another idea is that they could keep Raw weapons' damage as it is now (ie: underpowered), but upgrading down the Raw path would increase a weapon's potential to break poise and stunlock.

    I also support the idea of Crystal weapons having increased repair costs, but maybe not just increased soul costs. I'm thinking more like additional costs to repair it with titanite, similar to how "Resist Curse" also costs a humanity to cast. Something like every 20 durability to repair a Crystal Weapon costs 1 Twinkling titanite/titanite Chunk and some souls. What we don't need is for it to break opponents' gear, the last thing we want is to see the return of the Phalanx build...
    Forgive me if I'm wrong, but Raw, such as raw building supplies, is the base form of a good, so I've personally felt it would be great if raw stayed as it currently was, but got a 1.5 multiplier on imbues of all types, thusforth making it better when enchanted with anything.
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    Re: Changes and additions to the upgrade system.

    Post by Reaperfan on Sun May 06, 2012 3:20 am

    Rynn wrote:Forgive me if I'm wrong, but Raw, such as raw building supplies, is the base form of a good, so I've personally felt it would be great if raw stayed as it currently was, but got a 1.5 multiplier on imbues of all types, thusforth making it better when enchanted with anything.

    Not taken to the literal definition, I believe FROM intended the Raw upgrade path to be the "elemental" upgrade for pure physical damage, ie: that it would only deal physical damage, but not need any more than the base stat investment for the weapon. The problem was that when 1.04 rolled around and scaling got buffed, then +15 started doing more base damage as well as scaling better than Raw. My first change was a way to make it back into this idea, but the better stunlocking idea was something to give it a more unique property without turning Raw into the new overly-used "elemental" build path :|


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    Re: Changes and additions to the upgrade system.

    Post by BLA1NE on Sun May 06, 2012 3:38 am

    The problem with most of the upgrade paths, right now, is with the scaling. For any given stat, scaling is only viable up to 40. And before 40, elemental paths are the strongest for most levels. So you really only have a few levels between 30+ to 40 for pure physical upgrade paths to come into their own--that is: raw, crystal, and regular.

    That's just too many paths as it is for too few levels. Before From can really differentiate these upgrade paths, they need to do something about this ridiculously stunted stat scaling.


    Edit: same goes for Magic vs Enchanted and Divine vs Occult; way too few effective scaling levels make these paths virtually the same.


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    Re: Changes and additions to the upgrade system.

    Post by sparkly-twinkly-lizard on Sun May 06, 2012 3:53 am

    raw could ugrade into Jagged and add bleed? for non bleed weapons it gives 200 for weapons already with bleed it adds 50 to 100? or raw could simply go to 10 with the same incremental increases it already does... raw weapons could also maybe be given better defensive values (i.e 10 to 20% more damage blocking and more stability, it fits because while it lessens the advantage of twohanding it also lessens the disadvantage of twohanding.)


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