Have you ever

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    skarekrow13
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    Re: Have you ever

    Post by skarekrow13 on Mon Apr 30, 2012 8:01 pm

    You can skip him but he stills wants to die

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    Re: Have you ever

    Post by GodOfPaperclips on Mon Apr 30, 2012 9:46 pm

    I can't believe none of you feel sad about murdering Quelaag! She's all her poor infirm sister has! Who's really the deformed, lava puking, half spider monster here!? I suggest you look in the mirror... then farm some humanity.
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    Re: Have you ever

    Post by Extertionist on Mon Apr 30, 2012 10:07 pm

    For those of you who've played Infamous 2, this crap is not even comparable to the evil ending.


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    Re: Have you ever

    Post by DoughGuy on Mon Apr 30, 2012 10:13 pm

    Hey i never planned on killing Quelana, Quelaag attacked me before I could say anything.


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    Re: Have you ever

    Post by TheAshenPhantom on Mon Apr 30, 2012 10:19 pm

    I felt bad fighting Sif, Ceaseless i felt I was giving him an end to his suffering. I thought Gwyn to be a monster that deserved death alongside Seath. I was kinda torn about having to battle Nito. I mean you can join Nito's covenant and yet you still have to battle him? Couldn't they have had a way for you to rank up so far into his covenant that he hands you his part of the lord soul or something similiar like a replica built from the souls of the dead that he collects? Gwyndolin was just an insane child who wanted to keep the delusion of what his father's original kingdom once was by using an illusion of his sister to keep order. Ornstein I though was something else.... It seemed like he was hoping for a fight worthy of his status as Knight Captian. I think Smough was just waiting for something else to smash, after all he does smash Ornstein if you kill Ornstein first. The Four Kings... Really I didn't feel much of anything for them. Well those are my opinions of a majority of the bosses.


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    Re: Have you ever

    Post by BT90001 on Mon Apr 30, 2012 10:24 pm

    :| WOW :|
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    Re: Have you ever

    Post by DoughGuy on Mon Apr 30, 2012 10:27 pm

    Gwyn is nothing like Seath IMO. He my be hollow but that's it. before he went hollow he sacrificed himself to do what he thought was right, knowing that he would never again be part of the world. He is a matyr of a lost cause.


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    Re: Have you ever

    Post by sonofartorias on Mon Apr 30, 2012 10:31 pm

    DoughGuy is right he was trying to do what he thought was right


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    Re: Have you ever

    Post by Imarreteet23 on Mon Apr 30, 2012 10:35 pm

    ^^ No woooo? I'm dissapointed. lol!

    Back on topic. I get sad when fighting Gwyn not because of his lore, but more because I know my journey in Dark Souls is ending. Paired with the piano music, and then the music by the credits, and I'm shedding tears of nerdiness.

    Also, that video of Sif was so sad... sad


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    Re: Have you ever

    Post by sonofartorias on Mon Apr 30, 2012 10:38 pm

    wooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo


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    Re: Have you ever

    Post by GodOfPaperclips on Mon Apr 30, 2012 10:42 pm

    You're probably right Doughguy. I hate spiders anyway. It's just a shame there isn't a hoover big enough... Maybe they'll put it in the DLC as a rare drop from Artorias... The vacuum of the abyss or something.

    And Seath... That Guy is one sick SOB. Gwyn just looks beat down. IMO he orchestrated the whole thing as a way to finally be free of his burden.
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    Re: Have you ever

    Post by TheAshenPhantom on Mon Apr 30, 2012 10:43 pm

    Consider it this way; Gwyn is considered a God, who used the souls and humanity of the undead to continue to kindle the first flame to keep in power. Seath used the undead to find away of obtaining immortality. Both used the undead/hollows to Continue their exsistence. That is why I consider them monsters. Also isn't the dark sign a curse brought about by Gwyn? So wouldn't that make him a monster to all humans?
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    Re: Have you ever

    Post by DoughGuy on Mon Apr 30, 2012 10:47 pm

    Is the sacrifice of a few not worth the lives of many? I guess thats what you have to ask yourself to decide whether Gwyn is a monster or not. ALso he didnt keep in power. He's trapped in the kiln, locked away from the world, he anything but in power.

    Seath is a monster yes.

    The dark sign is the sign of the pygmy, who is either the god of war or the first firekeeper.


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    Re: Have you ever

    Post by sonofartorias on Mon Apr 30, 2012 10:52 pm

    ric flair say's gwynn was a good man who made a judgement call and nothing trump's flair woooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo


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    Re: Have you ever

    Post by TheAshenPhantom on Mon Apr 30, 2012 11:38 pm

    The whole reason Gwyn sacrificed himself was to keep the gods in power. He sacrificed that which he feared to keep his kind in control. I'll agree it comes down to how one preceivces Gwyn, but really it comes down to what each precievce was the right path for humanity. Gwyn gave his life so his kind could continue to rule of humans with an iron fist, and The pygm gave up his flame so humanity had a chance to control their own destiney. Also i believe it was Darkstalker Kaathe that stated the dark sign was a curse brought about by Gwyn so he could continue to have beings to sacrifice to continue to kindle the flame.


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    Re: Have you ever

    Post by DoughGuy on Mon Apr 30, 2012 11:47 pm

    Im sure someone will post exactly what kaathe says but I m pretty sure he says it marks you a the pygmy's descendant. Where di you get this "iron fost stuff"? Gwyn linked with the fire because he believeed that the best course for humanity was to continue living with the gods in the world. When he linked chaos demons were running amk, Seath was betraying the gods, Nito was in hiding and the four kings had fallen. The world was on the verge of collapse and the only hope he saw left was for the gods to regain their powers to rule again.


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    Re: Have you ever

    Post by Imarreteet23 on Mon Apr 30, 2012 11:49 pm

    And also, Kaathe could be lieing just to get you to hate Gwyn more. You should watch EpicNameBro's lore videos if you haven't already, they talk about both endings and their goods and bads.


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    Re: Have you ever

    Post by Argetlam350 on Mon Apr 30, 2012 11:55 pm

    I feel that Kaathe and Frampt are both just trying to use you and that neither are telling the full truth about Gywn or the Pygmy. They want to see certain outcomes thus they twist the truth or maybe even lie to get you to like what they say. Just my opinion.


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    Re: Have you ever

    Post by Imarreteet23 on Tue May 01, 2012 12:04 am

    Good point Arget, but if you think about it, Frampt dosen't give you any explanation as to why you must link the flame, if memory serves. But, at least Kaathe has a reason as to why you shouldn't link the flame. Both of them lie and scheme and play you for their own benefit (in my opinion), but to me, Kaathe sounds a bit more reasonable.


    Last edited by Imarreteet23 on Tue May 01, 2012 12:05 am; edited 1 time in total


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    Re: Have you ever

    Post by TheAshenPhantom on Tue May 01, 2012 12:05 am

    I have watched Epic's lore videos and according to some of gwyns armor, Gwyn left and linked the flame after defeating the dragons and granting Seath Dukehood. Remember, Seath didnt drive most of the gods out of Anor Londo until after Gwyn left. My impression of the iron fist is from Gwyndolin. If you look at how Gwyndolin treats people it would a good sign of how it was beforehand since children usually learn from their parents. Kaathe could be lieing, but so is Gwyndolin with his False Gwynovere and so is Frampt if he too follows Gwynovere. Though that brings to question wether or not Frampt knew if Gwynovere in Andor London was Gwyndolin's illusion or not.


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    Re: Have you ever

    Post by DoughGuy on Tue May 01, 2012 12:50 am

    Gwyndolin has been on his own in Anor londo for a thousand years trying to keep it together. He's probably a little insane plus he's become harsher in order to keep his DMs as one.
    In the 2 current endings the chosen undead is just a tool used by the primordial serpents to achieve their goals. Frampt never gives you a reason past Gwyn is hollow, go kill him. Kaathe could be lying but at least his lie has merit.


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    Re: Have you ever

    Post by TheAshenPhantom on Tue May 01, 2012 1:16 am

    There is that possibility but there is also the fact Gwyndolin was raised to be a girl that could also attribute to that. Kaathe's reasoning is that Gwyn is defying nature and how things were meant to be. For example look at how the timelines are being warped and even Frampt makes a statement about it when he mentions that it was a thousand years since you return with the lordsvessel.Though on that part I'm not entirely sure if he meant it's been a thousand years since anyone has ever retrieved the Lordsvessel or if a thousand years actually passed. I can see Gwyn as a hero for wanting to stand up and say his kingdom and family, but to the main character and to the humans, hes a monster that's actions are messing with time and nature itself. Solair mentions the timeline being affected.

    On a side note, I'm finding this to be queit a fun debate.


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    Re: Have you ever

    Post by Imarreteet23 on Tue May 01, 2012 1:23 am

    Also, I pesonally like the idea of the "age of man." It sounds like an age where man takes control of their own destiny, and dosen't need to be sheparded by gods.


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    Re: Have you ever

    Post by TheAshenPhantom on Tue May 01, 2012 1:26 am

    Imarreteet23 wrote:Also, I pesonally like the idea of the "age of man." It sounds like an age where man takes control of their own destiny, and dosen't need to be sheparded by gods.

    That's what I mean when I consider Gwyn a monster. He stands in the way of the age of man. As I should have stated in my last post, I can see Gwyn as a more tragic hero rather than just a hero. My opinion of him as a monster still stands. Even heros can become monsters.
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    Re: Have you ever

    Post by DoughGuy on Tue May 01, 2012 1:30 am

    Frampt does say a thousand years. So does Quelaan talking about how long since the witch of izalith was mutated. gwyn is the perfect tragic hero. As Ive said multiple times before "You're only a hero as long as the people cheer". During the war with the dragons Gwyn was the hero of mankind, leading them to victory over the dragons. yet as time went by and the way descended into chaos the people felt better off without the gods. thorolund only supports Lloyd, Carim holds the remnants of the old gods, Astora believes in the fire but not the gods, catarina believes in its knights etc. dark Souls is a game all about context. There are good gys and there are bad guys, but depending on whose talking they can be the same person.


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