Amusing Anecdote

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    Darkson
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    Re: Amusing Anecdote

    Post by Darkson on Fri Apr 27, 2012 11:52 am

    Me gusta. silly


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    Re: Amusing Anecdote

    Post by skarekrow13 on Fri Apr 27, 2012 11:53 am

    Lol....since we've derailed I did know that Kindergarten was German. From what I recall in high school Spanish was actually quite a bit easier than English due to better defined structure and less irregular words and exceptions to well defined rules.

    Such as this gem:
    "i" before "e" except after "c"

    Assuming you don't care about the thousand or so exceptions. And this is supposed to be the most rigid rule in English sho nuff

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    Re: Amusing Anecdote

    Post by ARSP on Fri Apr 27, 2012 11:54 am

    Darkson wrote:I bet English is A LOT easier than Spanish lol

    Also, English is everywhere.

    And I technically even picked up some English phrases until Kindergarten.

    (btw "Kindergarten" is German winking )

    Sorry but according to the rest of the world english is the hardest language in the world to learn it is easy for us because it is spoken all the time. In my school there are koreans students they have been in america for five years or more and they still can't understand most of english


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    Re: Amusing Anecdote

    Post by Darkson on Fri Apr 27, 2012 11:59 am

    Yeah well maybe because their language is completely different I'd say... idk...

    But sure as hell English must be a lot easier than german at least!


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    Re: Amusing Anecdote

    Post by ARSP on Fri Apr 27, 2012 12:07 pm

    Darkson wrote:Yeah well maybe because their language is completely different I'd say... idk...

    But sure as hell English must be a lot easier than german at least!

    5 years man 5 years. My uncle can speak German actually he also speaks french and italian. I understand english and spanish as soon as I wrap my head around French I will be golden for now.


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    Re: Amusing Anecdote

    Post by Darkson on Fri Apr 27, 2012 12:12 pm

    skarekrow13 wrote:For shizzle.

    I don't think Darkson got my point. I must not have been talking loud enough.




    Actually.....I get what you're saying. We went to Puerto Rico for our honeymoon last year and was forced to talk in Spanish at a restaurant because they were one of five people on the island that didn't have some English skills and I was immediately self conscious about pronunciation and the like.

    Also I give you a lot of credit. I don't know enough Spanish to join a forum that used it.

    Oh! Congrats to that btw lol ...till death do you part-

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    Re: Amusing Anecdote

    Post by skarekrow13 on Fri Apr 27, 2012 12:14 pm

    Not according to any foreign exchange student from Germany I ever met. My guess is that, while there are some technical differences that make some languages harder than others to learn, most difficulty is driven by the person's motivation to learn. Also, going from some languages to another one can be a struggle due to differences in phonemes. The best known example is the "l" sound prevalent in many languages. My Judo/Psychology instructor in college was born in Japan and moved to the U.S. after he was an adult and then learned English. Because he had not been exposed to this phoneme (sound) early in life it was hard as heck for his brain to recognize it and decode it correctly as an adult and thus speak it. Also, the "l" sound requires different motor skills that are better practiced as a child. That's just one example.....most of us take it for granted that our native language encompasses all the possible sounds that can be made but pretty much all languages missed a phoneme or two and going to a language in which it's prominently displayed is tricky.

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    Re: Amusing Anecdote

    Post by skarekrow13 on Fri Apr 27, 2012 12:15 pm

    Lol.....I'll have to consult my NY state law but I'm not sure a Dark Souls death nullifies a marriage here. I think there's a reincarnation clause in there somewhere.

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    Re: Amusing Anecdote

    Post by Darkson on Fri Apr 27, 2012 12:21 pm

    ROR!

    I think you're marriaged to Dark Souls now.


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    Re: Amusing Anecdote

    Post by ARSP on Fri Apr 27, 2012 12:24 pm

    skarekrow13 wrote:Not according to any foreign exchange student from Germany I ever met. My guess is that, while there are some technical differences that make some languages harder than others to learn, most difficulty is driven by the person's motivation to learn. Also, going from some languages to another one can be a struggle due to differences in phonemes. The best known example is the "l" sound prevalent in many languages. My Judo/Psychology instructor in college was born in Japan and moved to the U.S. after he was an adult and then learned English. Because he had not been exposed to this phoneme (sound) early in life it was hard as heck for his brain to recognize it and decode it correctly as an adult and thus speak it. Also, the "l" sound requires different motor skills that are better practiced as a child. That's just one example.....most of us take it for granted that our native language encompasses all the possible sounds that can be made but pretty much all languages missed a phoneme or two and going to a language in which it's prominently displayed is tricky.

    Yeah in spanish things sound differently here are the phonetics for the first couple of letters (note this is how sound by themselves not when they are with other letters)

    A-ah

    B-bay

    C- say

    D- day

    E- Ey(like a canadian)

    F- fey

    G- the sound for this one is hard to put into context on a forum

    H- hachi

    I- E

    J- jota


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    Re: Amusing Anecdote

    Post by skarekrow13 on Fri Apr 27, 2012 12:31 pm

    Addicted. From is genius. Pretty soon we're gonna see clinics pop up all over the world to cure us.

    ARSP.....yeah. But in Spanish we're actually similar in the possible sounds we came up with. Not to pick but because it's a good example. In English our alphabet used the letter "l" which we pronounce as "el" whereas Spanish says "el lay"
    We both use the "luh" or "lah" or "llllllllll" sound though. My Judo instructor, despite being old enough to be a soldier in WWII didn't hear or try to speak a "luh" or "lah" or anything to do with that sound until the 1950s. So, for that sound he was like an infant in that he had to hear the sounds, translate and then try to copy it. Unlike an infant his brain wasn't able to reroute connections to adjust so he never got it perfectly. Alphabets and phonemes are loosely correlated but in our language we have 26 letters but a lot more sounds. For instance the phoneme/sound the "g" makes in the word "beige" is actually not found in the alphabet at all and is similar to "g" and "z" being mashed up.

    An English difficulty is the name "Sven" as the combination of "s" followed by "v" is unheard of mostly so we haven't heard it enough to make neurological connections or practice the motor abilities to sound it correctly. Most of us, including me, say it closer to "seven" or "zwen" than the right way.

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    Re: Amusing Anecdote

    Post by ARSP on Fri Apr 27, 2012 12:38 pm

    skarekrow13 wrote:Addicted. From is genius. Pretty soon we're gonna see clinics pop up all over the world to cure us.

    ARSP.....yeah. But in Spanish we're actually similar in the possible sounds we came up with. Not to pick but because it's a good example. In English our alphabet used the letter "l" which we pronounce as "el" whereas Spanish says "el lay"
    We both use the "luh" or "lah" or "llllllllll" sound though. My Judo instructor, despite being old enough to be a soldier in WWII didn't hear or try to speak a "luh" or "lah" or anything to do with that sound until the 1950s. So, for that sound he was like an infant in that he had to hear the sounds, translate and then try to copy it. Unlike an infant his brain wasn't able to reroute connections to adjust so he never got it perfectly. Alphabets and phonemes are loosely correlated but in our language we have 26 letters but a lot more sounds. For instance the phoneme/sound the "g" makes in the word "beige" is actually not found in the alphabet at all and is similar to "g" and "z" being mashed up.

    An English difficulty is the name "Sven" as the combination of "s" followed by "v" is unheard of mostly so we haven't heard it enough to make neurological connections or practice the motor abilities to sound it correctly. Most of us, including me, say it closer to "seven" or "zwen" than the right way.

    The purpose of my post was to be really simple and really basic I could go out and include all the phonetics but then my post will end up looking like Cook's after a good weekend of lore hunting. You are right in that many of words and Phrase in spanish have similar sounds to each other. Side note the r is spanish is supposed to sound like rrrrr kinda of like a dog's growl and whatother language has a similar sounding r....... Japanese. Who knew :?:


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    Re: Amusing Anecdote

    Post by skarekrow13 on Fri Apr 27, 2012 12:48 pm

    Lol......

    Points taken. We better get back on topicish before this becomes a language thread.

    So.....neon.....kinda going the opposite direction of someone doing something that prompts a Dark Souls response from me.....
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    Re: Amusing Anecdote

    Post by Rynoa on Fri Apr 27, 2012 12:53 pm

    I think you're focusing too much on pronounce instead of grammar, which is the worst part when learning a new language. Knowing words and pronounce them correctly is one thing, constructing the sentence in the right way is another, and most languages are far more complex than english.
    For one, languages like italian, german and even japanese (and many others I'm sure) are usually considered more difficult to learn because of the need to modify nouns and verbs according to the subject or function. Also, italian has 8 different main verb tenses (each with 6 variants) + 4 conjunctives + conditionals + all others (infinite, participle etc...), and of course a lot of irregular verbs.

    English has 3 main tenses each with usually 2 forms (first person/plural Vs third person), with some exceptions.

    Also common English uses less words than most other languages.
    So yeah, basically I find it an easy language and that's probably because it's so common (instead of Spanish or Chinese, for example)
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    Re: Amusing Anecdote

    Post by Rynoa on Fri Apr 27, 2012 1:01 pm

    Darkson wrote:Yay!

    Rynoa, come to Vienna in October, let's meet at the Oktoberfest winking (Never have been there btw)

    You will recognize me as the tall good looking nice and smart talking guy silly ... with sexy Lederhosen...

    We can have a good time winking

    Edit: Oh, and bring your towel...

    lol! I'd like to see Vienna but I already have plans about this fall (NYC )

    @Skare: thanks I already found him, but he disagrees lol!
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    Re: Amusing Anecdote

    Post by Darkson on Fri Apr 27, 2012 1:17 pm

    English:
    I go, went
    you go, went
    he/she/it goes (ooh attention!), went
    we go, went
    you go, went
    they go, went
    (wow....)

    German:
    Infinitive: gehen, ging (=Imperfect), gegangen (=Perfect)
    ich gehe, ging, bin gegangen
    du gehst, gingst, bist gegangen
    er/sie/es geht, ging, ist gegangen
    wir gehen, gingen, sind gegangen
    ihr geht, gingt, seid gegangen
    sie gehen, gingen, sind gegangen

    (and thats a simple regular example)

    NUFF SAID silly


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    Re: Amusing Anecdote

    Post by Neograyfoxx on Fri Apr 27, 2012 1:32 pm

    Darkson wrote:
    skarekrow13 wrote:For shizzle.

    I don't think Darkson got my point. I must not have been talking loud enough.




    Actually.....I get what you're saying. We went to Puerto Rico for our honeymoon last year and was forced to talk in Spanish at a restaurant because they were one of five people on the island that didn't have some English skills and I was immediately self conscious about pronunciation and the like.

    Also I give you a lot of credit. I don't know enough Spanish to join a forum that used it.

    Oh! Congrats to that btw lol ...till death do you part-

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    Lol, lets hope you never travel to Lordran then.
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    Re: Amusing Anecdote

    Post by skarekrow13 on Fri Apr 27, 2012 3:02 pm

    It's not in the plans for our one year anniversary but you never know big grin

    Darkson, there's a lot more to language than that. English conjugations aren't the difficult part of the language. Your example seems very similar to Spanish construction which I'm pretty familiar with and overall that was one easy language to learn for me considering the close to zero effort put in by me or the teacher. For any real answer there would have to be one of two studies:

    1. A very large sample of persons with as many variables weeded out as possible with zero language skills, so babies. All of the babies would need to be in a clinical environment with no access to language apart from very well trained "teachers" presenting small units of language at a fixed rate over a long period of time and measuring which group had the most struggles.

    or

    2. An insanely large test consisting of persons from each known language in in the world all attempting to learn new languages and comparing the results with different groups from each native language assigned to a different "new" language.

    I have seen a lot of smaller studies done but don't trust the results because of the number of variables present.

    Some objective criteria perhaps:
    Which language utilizes the most and/or most complex set of phonemes, the basic units of sound?
    Which language uses the most complex rule structure, including but not limited to conjugation?
    Which language has the most deviations from standardized rules, increasing the complexity?
    Which language has the most difficult mechanical functions to learn (tongue movement, breathing mechanics, vocal chord control, etc.)?
    Which language uses the most functionally necessary words? For instance Esperanto was used as a short hand language including a very small set of functional words as apart to the legendary Eskimo story of having three bajillion words for "snow."

    And so forth-

    I can't successfully state English is the hardest based on all of these criteria so I would be remiss to state that it's the hardest to learn. However, in order to convince me you would need to make a case against all of these criteria for German across all known languages. Off the top of my head I would say you're gonna have a hard time against the well known of (but not commonly known) language that most of the world seems to think is just "clicking" and "popping" noises based on most of those tests.

    I think the best generalization is still what I said before: The hardest language to learn is gonna depend on who you are and what language you're trying to figure out.

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    Re: Amusing Anecdote

    Post by Darkson on Fri Apr 27, 2012 3:12 pm

    Rynoa wrote:
    Darkson wrote:Yay!

    Rynoa, come to Vienna in October, let's meet at the Oktoberfest winking (Never have been there btw)

    You will recognize me as the tall good looking nice and smart talking guy silly ... with sexy Lederhosen...

    We can have a good time winking

    Edit: Oh, and bring your towel...

    lol! I'd like to see Vienna but I already have plans about this fall (NYC )

    @Skare: thanks I already found him, but he disagrees lol!

    😢



    *jumps out of the window*

    *while wishing Skare a happy anniversary*

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    I mean VICTORY ACHIEVED :|


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    Re: Amusing Anecdote

    Post by skarekrow13 on Fri Apr 27, 2012 3:16 pm

    Lol....There's still hope Darkson!

    And thanks....it's coming up quick

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    Re: Amusing Anecdote

    Post by Darkson on Fri Apr 27, 2012 3:21 pm

    *you both of coursaAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHH.......


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    Re: Amusing Anecdote

    Post by Rynoa on Fri Apr 27, 2012 4:42 pm

    lol!
    Don't worry you and your sexy Lederhosen can still buy me a beer some other times big grin
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    Re: Amusing Anecdote

    Post by Darkson on Fri Apr 27, 2012 4:46 pm

    Lmao! Ok, maybe next year.



    Wait, did I just seriously type "marriaged" in my post #34? lol ...

    You people need to tell me about such things!


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    Re: Amusing Anecdote

    Post by skarekrow13 on Fri Apr 27, 2012 4:48 pm

    Nope. Musta been some other guy.

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    Re: Amusing Anecdote

    Post by Rynoa on Fri Apr 27, 2012 4:52 pm

    Look someone just typed marriaged! lol!

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