Common Misconception About Dark Souls Story, AKA most confusing thread ever

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    Re: Common Misconception About Dark Souls Story, AKA most confusing thread ever

    Post by Buggy Virus on Tue Apr 24, 2012 10:44 pm

    I think what I am getting at is that other player phantoms in my opinion are supposed to be interpreted as other adventures during a different time who never defeat bosses or fulfill story elements that you do (except for ringing bells, because you can hear that).

    They are interpreted as these adventurers from a different time, even though they are actually other players as we know since we live in the real world (we as in us players in the actual real world (reality)). And the fact that we can join their worlds and kill their bosses is to give us the vital co-op mechanic that isn't supposed to be read too far into.

    So Yeah, with my original point I think that the chosen undead is more an idea of attrition of probability urged on by Fraampt and any one that happens to be victorious becomes the chosen undead.

    I think with soapstones and phantoms, From was trying to think of a way to make it make sense even when it entirely wouldn't, so they stuck in the description of soapstones that it lets you go to other worlds and something about time distortion without ever thinking about it very much, but more as a way to get by and leave it to us fans to argue about it.

    We could always send the developers a letter.


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    Re: Common Misconception About Dark Souls Story, AKA most confusing thread ever

    Post by DoughGuy on Tue Apr 24, 2012 10:48 pm

    We've tried writing to them. Doesnt work.


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    Re: Common Misconception About Dark Souls Story, AKA most confusing thread ever

    Post by Buggy Virus on Tue Apr 24, 2012 10:55 pm

    DoughGuy wrote:We've tried writing to them. Doesnt work.

    They obviously have less an idea of what is going on than we do.


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    Re: Common Misconception About Dark Souls Story, AKA most confusing thread ever

    Post by User on Tue Apr 24, 2012 11:02 pm

    It would not make sense, as all of the bosses revive every time you beat the game, as well as your boss does not die when you kill them in another being's world. It can not be that all are in the future, otherwise such terms of helping one another would not work, as the defeat of one boss would at least affect one other adventurer.

    The ideals of separate worlds allows connection to worlds in which have the SAME characters as you world, or at least it can (if they did not kill them, or missed or did something that made them move). The ideals of different beings that are the same is not different beings from different times; such ghosts either you or another find is not of time, but space. All those ghosts you see are of not only time, but space itself. If it were that you killed bosses of a different time, then how can you see the ghosts of the same beings at the time?

    Every time you restart after you are revived back to the asylum ends with two things: everything you did is reset to the very start, and you lose your human form, starting as a hollow; an aspect in which ties to the flame of disparity yet again, as hollows are spawns of the flame (human undead as well, although they have consumed and kept humanity in form now instead of the form of a hollow). Everything you carry is the only thing that stays.

    The ideals of the world of Lordran becoming revamped and reset, as well as the errors of there being different interactions of time both human and phantom disallows the aspect of just time. There is a second component as well.

    If you disagree due to the factor that all go threw the same path, remember this: The aspect of you interacting with characters such as Solaire and Kirk judges where they are in your present, both the past and future aspects of such characters. It can be that there is a component in which something of the past resets you, or perhaps your hollowment (removal of character, or in other words loss the aspect of humanity in essence, or in better terms the mind), the flame selects another undead to follow the path. As the chaos flame shows signs of it being sentinel, the flame of disparity can be as well.

    As for those who do not see it as the flame of disparity, but rebellion (seeing you dough, I saw your post), just remember that the intro states what came from the flame. It does not say rebellion, but disparity. I am sure the flame was not relit to rebel against the chaos flame, but instead to start war with it. Disparity in general can be seen as conflict in general. Usually such conflict would be toed to war, in which rebellion would be a subfactor tied to both.
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    Re: Common Misconception About Dark Souls Story, AKA most confusing thread ever

    Post by DoughGuy on Tue Apr 24, 2012 11:19 pm

    @Acidic let me try to explain. The intro says "With fire came disparity" Therefore disaprity was created by the first plame, not the other way round. The flame was born of rebellion, which creates the disparity te flame is known for. The flame is still the flame of disparity, but this disparity has its roots in rebelllion, but even deeper that that, it is mankinds anger and emotion. Emotions were a great disparity from the age of ancients thus the flame is tied to them. When Gwyn relit the flame his anger at his fellow lords and his depression at his failing were 2 emotions he felt strngly. Thus the flame of disparity was reborn from his emotions.
    Hopefully thats understandable. Feel free to pick holes.


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    Re: Common Misconception About Dark Souls Story, AKA most confusing thread ever

    Post by User on Tue Apr 24, 2012 11:33 pm

    I would have agreed in the past. However, such rebellion aspect seems to show only towards the dragons, and the chaos is more so a declarinstead of rebellion, as it is relit to combat something that threatens the peace, and is more so a defence.

    As well, the intro stating that disparity came from the flame is the indication and reason why I call it the flame of disparity, as it does not tell what else comes other than the three opposite factors: heat and cold; life and death; light and dark;

    Fire does not have to represent rebellion, but flame is more so a fuel source. As fire is used to also see in the dark as well as burn, the aspect of flame is more so a direction, in which the flame was made to direct its course to an enemy of the being who lot the fire in everyones heart, as well as gave everyone a torch.

    Disparity is a subfactor of rebellion, yes, but it would be of better cause to say it to be general conflict, as it is what both flames are for, both disparity and chaos.

    It is also hinted that the chaos flame is, indeed, alive, as we see it in the bed of chaos, residing within a supposed corrupted arch tree and protecting its Firekeeper: a deformed witch of chaos. The flame of disparity may also be sentinel as well, and its Firekeepers were, unlike chaos, all powerful. However, the hollowment of Gwyn due to betrayal and fall of order seems to degrade and possibly skew warriors of the first flame (black knights) to target all except for a few. Hollowed undead who have become drones in essence, and skeletons; skeletons are minions of Nito, a spawn of the flame (supposedly).

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    Re: Common Misconception About Dark Souls Story, AKA most confusing thread ever

    Post by DoughGuy on Tue Apr 24, 2012 11:43 pm

    What i was trying to say was that the flame is the flame of disparity since it caused disparity, but it was not disparity that caused it, it was rebellion. Since it created disparity it could not be created by disparity. The emotion at the start of the rebellio create dthe flame which created disparity. When Gwyn relights the flamehe does not relight it with its true purpose in mind which is another reason why it doesnt "work" correctly for him.
    I think i may be repeaing myself. Be back after lunch.


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    Re: Common Misconception About Dark Souls Story, AKA most confusing thread ever

    Post by Eolan on Wed Apr 25, 2012 9:11 am

    Time theory has allot to do with parrellel worlds, and instances. Any philosophy of time students will know that they are using a cool theory to explain the idea of different universes (different consoles and spirit blah blahs).

    Basically we are all different instances of the same event, and within that time has distorted to allow access to them. Quantum leaps haha.
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    Re: Common Misconception About Dark Souls Story, AKA most confusing thread ever

    Post by Buggy Virus on Wed Apr 25, 2012 10:13 am

    Eolan wrote:Time theory has allot to do with parrellel worlds, and instances. Any philosophy of time students will know that they are using a cool theory to explain the idea of different universes (different consoles and spirit blah blahs).

    Basically we are all different instances of the same event, and within that time has distorted to allow access to them. Quantum leaps haha.

    Although that's one of the fairly accepted philosophical theory in philosophy I don't believe it is necessary the correct answer for Dark Souls. Although it does make sense if you subscribe to the idea that there are different worlds for each players. But this would mean that soapstones and lordran cause quantum leaps, which also makes sense due to the fact that Lordran is inherently unstable due to the lighting of the chaos flame by hollow Gwyn.

    So yes this theory makes sense, I'm just trying to make us wary of applying real world theories to what Dark Souls might be. In this case, it works well.

    I still subscribe to the fact that there is only one world and all adventurers are from different time periods.


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    Re: Common Misconception About Dark Souls Story, AKA most confusing thread ever

    Post by DoughGuy on Wed Apr 25, 2012 10:15 am

    If you're worried about applying real world principles to dark souls I will mention in Magical Theory 201 we;ve basically proven that magic in Lordran uses super efficient real world physics to do everything/ Thus we have another real world physics application that works. I'm satrting to see a pattern.


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    Re: Common Misconception About Dark Souls Story, AKA most confusing thread ever

    Post by User on Wed Apr 25, 2012 10:16 am

    No, Gwyn relit the flame of disparity. The witch of Izalith created and made the chaos flame.

    Just to be clear. Gwyn relit to fight chaos, as his warriors, the black knights, are armed with weaponry to destroy chaos Demon's, spawns of the chaos flame.
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    Re: Common Misconception About Dark Souls Story, AKA most confusing thread ever

    Post by DoughGuy on Wed Apr 25, 2012 10:18 am

    @Acidic Im not sure we're talking abou the same thing. None of my points have been talking about the chaos flame.


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    Re: Common Misconception About Dark Souls Story, AKA most confusing thread ever

    Post by User on Wed Apr 25, 2012 10:21 am

    Not you, buggy. Look up.
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    Re: Common Misconception About Dark Souls Story, AKA most confusing thread ever

    Post by DoughGuy on Wed Apr 25, 2012 10:24 am

    Ah ok. Compoletely missed that. SOrry.


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    Re: Common Misconception About Dark Souls Story, AKA most confusing thread ever

    Post by Eolan on Wed Apr 25, 2012 10:42 am

    Also lordran is a hub of all these instances. Possibly allowing the deities to consume humanity from an infinite source of worlds.
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    Re: Common Misconception About Dark Souls Story, AKA most confusing thread ever

    Post by Buggy Virus on Wed Apr 25, 2012 11:23 am

    Acidic_Cook wrote:No, Gwyn relit the flame of disparity. The witch of Izalith created and made the chaos flame.

    Just to be clear. Gwyn relit to fight chaos, as his warriors, the black knights, are armed with weaponry to destroy chaos Demon's, spawns of the chaos flame.

    My bad, not up to date on the different lightings and relightings.


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