For the Glory of Alvina

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    Bamjam
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    Re: For the Glory of Alvina

    Post by Bamjam on Tue Apr 17, 2012 3:53 pm

    @Broke, ive seen your msg about that DS lag trap but i dont got a clue what you mean with it. care to explain to me? i live in europe and never seen anything like that, what i think it is anyway.
    You should think that i would have seen it since im playing at the same time as those guys :shock: .
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    Re: For the Glory of Alvina

    Post by Brokewilly on Tue Apr 17, 2012 4:43 pm

    Bamjam wrote:@Broke, ive seen your msg about that DS lag trap but i dont got a clue what you mean with it. care to explain to me? i live in europe and never seen anything like that, what i think it is anyway.
    You should think that i would have seen it since im playing at the same time as those guys :shock: .

    Well basically due to either manufactured means (i.e. lag switch, out-dated wireless radios) or purely by happen stance (network conditions at the time) - 1 or 2 members of group of farmers will set-up a sniping position in the forest while others in the farming group attack directly. Now while the invader is busy fighting in close combat he never knows he is being targeted from a far by another farmer(s) armed with Dragonslayer Bow (with lag in full effect). Once the invader is hit with one of the arrows(which will probably result in a knock down) he will realize its a trap but it is probably too late since it is very difficult to deal with melee attacks, ranged attacks and lag - all at the same time. This is a nasty tactic and very difficult to deal with especially if you are alone.

    I have recent vid in which I am attacked by farmer using Dragonslayer bow and lag is very noticeable. When I was hit it appeared the arrow passed right by me (a miss) but I was actually hit (lucklily I am always prepared for something like this since I have seen it so many times in the past). In fact I was forced to kill this farmer with sorcery (White Dragon Breath) because none of my melee attacks could hit him (dang my lying eyes!!) - simply put once I swung where I thought the camper was he had actually already moved. From the camper perspective everything probably looked just fine. Remember lag on your end does not mean lag on their end.

    Since you are physically located in the same part of the world (though a very large land area) my playing experience against European farmers is probably very different than yours due to the difference in network latency (data packets have farther to travel to get to me than to you). Your physical proximity to your opponents will reduce the lag quite a bit - but to American players it is very noticeable. Take a look at some of the lag vids I posted yesterday and you will get a sample of what I'm talking about.

    I hope this helps explain things a bit.


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    Re: For the Glory of Alvina

    Post by Brokewilly on Tue Apr 17, 2012 6:10 pm

    Question for the group - have you ever invaded and either saw a host or phantom fighting an invisible opponent (not like Hidden Body or Ring of Fog)? During one of my invasions this morning I saw a fellow hunter fighting something invisible and I mean truly invisible - he was swing his weapon around like crazy. I just ran past him ( I thought the hunter was just stalling for time until another hunter invaded but he kept acting like he was really fighting something) towards the camper but later as the camper and I were fighting I see the hunter die as if he was killed. It was very weird and just found a Youtube video in which a guy is asking the same question I am. What were they fighting? I will post the vid as soon as I can so everyone can see.

    Alvina refuses to talk about it but I think she knows something though:lol!: .


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    Re: For the Glory of Alvina

    Post by cloudyeki on Tue Apr 17, 2012 6:22 pm

    Skare can vouch for the invisable invader. During our 2nd duel a guy invaded. He stuck around till after I accidentally threw 1 to many swings and killed Skare. Guy comes down, we bow and I smash his face in. Run back to the campfire then back to our arena to summon Skare. a few minutes into our 2nd round of fights the same guy comes in and decides he wants to turn it into a 2v1. So I'm fighting him off trying to avoid hitting skare as skare is running to where ever I am and parrying the air. After the fool kills me Skare tells me he couldn't see the invader.

    I think it has to do with the level system. The 2nd invader didn't even notice Skare slapping the air so my guess is he was invisible to the 2nd invader.


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    Re: For the Glory of Alvina

    Post by Yog on Tue Apr 17, 2012 6:31 pm

    Broke. I have seen that before in the kiln. I stood aside and watched until he stopped at which point he bowed to the invisible corpse. He then walked over to me, healed, bowed and we had a duel, which I lost. I assume what had happened is that he was in a duel, somehow I glitched in when I invaded and was unable to see his other opponent for whatever reason. Dunno if that helps but that's what I got from his behavior.


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    Re: For the Glory of Alvina

    Post by skarekrow13 on Tue Apr 17, 2012 6:38 pm

    Seen it a lot at the Kiln helping fight Gwyn and a few times at the forest on both sides. Hosts getting schooled by no one and hunters falling to invisible phantoms. I tried to help ya Eki. From experience at the Kiln I knew he couldn't hurt me but was hoping he could see me. Guess not right 8')

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    Re: For the Glory of Alvina

    Post by cloudyeki on Tue Apr 17, 2012 6:39 pm

    It's fine it's fine. He prolly wanted revenge for the early cremation.


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    Re: For the Glory of Alvina

    Post by Brokewilly on Tue Apr 17, 2012 7:06 pm

    That is what I thought some kinda phase glitch in that only one party in a world can see as specific opponent. It was weird though - I tell you this game is just full of surprises and crazy quirks.


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    Re: For the Glory of Alvina

    Post by Yog on Tue Apr 17, 2012 7:21 pm

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q9Sn9SIq4Cs

    Broke : found this on youtube skip to 3:22 for the invisible phantom fight


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    Re: For the Glory of Alvina

    Post by befowler on Tue Apr 17, 2012 7:22 pm

    Not sure we'll ever see an end to the quirkiness. I've seen the invisible phantom/invader one a few times. I've also seen a sort of half and half, where the invader is invisible for a while to everyone (but doing damage etc) and then suddenly just pops into existence at the same time as the invasion message, fully active -- no summoning animation or anything. You're taking damage and then suddenly there's a red phantom hacking away right beside you.

    Last night I also saw a host somehow manage to summon three friendly phantoms (2 white, one sunbro) into their world for coop. I've heard of this but had never seen it until now. It was pretty amazing, Smough died after only managing to get a single swing off. Wasn't even laggy so the game clearly can support it if it wants to.


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    Re: For the Glory of Alvina

    Post by skarekrow13 on Tue Apr 17, 2012 7:24 pm

    Were you the Sunbro?

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    Re: For the Glory of Alvina

    Post by DarkW17 on Tue Apr 17, 2012 7:30 pm

    Hey guys this happens to me all to often at the kiln...I will grab my friends RSS and my other friend will DMB me...then Ill grab wht and red signs and then everyone gets to fight and then my friends fight then I fight the winner....fun for all.

    But for some reason waaaaaay to often people cant see each other..ill summon a wht/red and bow and point to the DMB and the wht starts shrugging like who are you taking about???? Then to make it stranger eventually they will see each other and fight after awhile...sometimes my friend will put his weapon away and start BS'n for no damage and the phantoms just confused as all can be!!!


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    Re: For the Glory of Alvina

    Post by Brokewilly on Tue Apr 17, 2012 9:43 pm

    Yog wrote:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q9Sn9SIq4Cs

    Broke : found this on youtube skip to 3:22 for the invisible phantom fight

    Yeah - that was the YouTube vid I watched which pretty much represents my experience. It was crazy because I ran right past the hunter fighting the invisible opponent and I'm like "WTF is he doing the camper is over there???" I thought he was just waiting for another hunter to invade before attacking the camper but he stayed right were he was swinging and slashing then died :shock: . I'm glad this doesn't happen too often since this is the first time I'm seeing the glitch after many, many invasions. What makes this glitch bad is it fills a hunter invasion slot - pretty much cutting you off from reinforcements (unless a semi-friendly red invades which is what happened to me - in fact the red saved me from certain death because the camper and the lag was kicking my butt).

    Befowler - what you experienced was crazy!! I would not want to have to deal with that in the forest though - things are tough enough already.

    I knew Alvina's fine servants and allies would provide some insight into this anomaly.


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    Re: For the Glory of Alvina

    Post by Quarik on Tue Apr 17, 2012 9:53 pm

    I was playing around with a greataxe +14 last night (it is glorious to instagrade weapons), and it stunlocks ridiculously well. The one handed works wonders against lightly armored targets, and it's very fast. The two handed eats stamina, but deals very good damage. It also does marginally higher bs damage than the mura. I think the secret for why they do such high crit damage for me is because sunlight blade is a buff to each hit. With my bss, SLB deals damage once, with my Mura/Gaxe, it deals damage twice in addition to the crazy high base damage.

    As to the PW thing, do not do it. The damage is fantastic, but the life drain is a huge issue, and for the setup I needed to max damage I couldn't block and had no additional stamina regen (PW buffs you, so you can't eat grass). Unless you're confident that you can get a backstab, a riposte, or land hits frequently it's much better to go with not dying quickly. It also freaks you out when you're getting low on hp, so you make stupid mistakes to get damage in.


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    Re: For the Glory of Alvina

    Post by cloudyeki on Tue Apr 17, 2012 10:04 pm

    How's the mobility and moveset?


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    Re: For the Glory of Alvina

    Post by Brokewilly on Tue Apr 17, 2012 10:43 pm

    DarkW17 wrote:Hey guys this happens to me all to often at the kiln...I will grab my friends RSS and my other friend will DMB me...then Ill grab wht and red signs and then everyone gets to fight and then my friends fight then I fight the winner....fun for all.

    But for some reason waaaaaay to often people cant see each other..ill summon a wht/red and bow and point to the DMB and the wht starts shrugging like who are you taking about???? Then to make it stranger eventually they will see each other and fight after awhile...sometimes my friend will put his weapon away and start BS'n for no damage and the phantoms just confused as all can be!!!

    Putting on my communication engineering hat now - basically my theory on the reason for the toon's phase shifting is lag which then causes multi-pathing. Basically the bits of data, which are the building blocks of each toon, are arriving at the host's world (console) at different times (out of sync). Eventually the network can compensate if the network protocols (XBOX uses like 5 or 6 different protocols - any one of these not reaching the other end at the right time can cause a problem) transporting the on-line data are robust enough (error correction) - so when the "out of sync" condition corrects each toon then become 100% in-phase (you can see and hit them now). Essentially, its the timing bits getting lost which are interlaced with the on-line data stream.

    Now I need to farm some humanity so I can get back to the front lines.Good hunting everyone!!


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    Re: For the Glory of Alvina

    Post by Quarik on Tue Apr 17, 2012 10:46 pm

    They're less bad than I thought they would be. It has dead angles, though it's not long enough to make full use of them (like the BSS). 1hr1 is surprisingly fast, and it only weighs 2 more than the mura, so I can keep my Swag Sword in my back pocket if I encounter a duelist or a spear user. Mobility is meh, it doesn't have great range on any of its attacks, and its sprinting attacks are a bit slower than I'd like. Its r2 attacks flatten people, which is nice. It doesn't actually take much stamina (compared to what I'd expected). Takes just slightly more than the mura, so much less than 2h UGS. Overall, the r1s are very narrow, similar to the scythes (reg scythe does not count, it's a halberd), but if you hit someone with them they're very likely to be stunned. Full giants and full havels give me a bit of a problem, but they're surprisingly rare, and even then, that's usually only about half of my stamina to stagger them.

    For quick attacks I keep a pyro glove, a talisman, GC, and WotG in my offhand (along with GCF and Chaos Storm). Also, do you think it's worth keeping GCF? GF is just as good on damage, but the lava blinds and discourages enemies. I've also seen it used as cover to cast an AoE, but I always get bs'ed. Maybe I should try backing up against a tree or a wall or something.

    Actually, the narrow attacks on the gaxe are very good in some cases, for instance after crossing Alvina's bridge I like to wait in ambush and hit people with my mura or a storm, but the muras wide r1 swings hit the walls or the stair railing thingy. The gaxe doesn't have that problem, and you can just go to town, especially if the other person has a wide swing weapon.

    Fun story of incredible incompetence: I spawn by the Demonic Foliage, and our friendly neighborhood host and his sunbro buddy see me and come running. I munch some grass and coat my Mura in citrus (it hurts when it gets into your wounds), and the host casts twop. I roll back, keeping my camera on the host, and get stuck on a log. I keep rolling, hoping to get past it, but there's a tree at the end that traps me. By this point, they've reached me, and I can barely move. I 2h my mura and swing wildly at the host. The tree shields me from the phantom, I instantly stunlock the host, and in spite of the fact that I hit the tree every time I swing, I stack up 1.7k damage on him and kill him.


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    Re: For the Glory of Alvina

    Post by Brokewilly on Tue Apr 17, 2012 11:02 pm

    Quarik wrote:They're less bad than I thought they would be. It has dead angles, though it's not long enough to make full use of them (like the BSS). 1hr1 is surprisingly fast, and it only weighs 2 more than the mura, so I can keep my Swag Sword in my back pocket if I encounter a duelist or a spear user. Mobility is meh, it doesn't have great range on any of its attacks, and its sprinting attacks are a bit slower than I'd like. Its r2 attacks flatten people, which is nice. It doesn't actually take much stamina (compared to what I'd expected). Takes just slightly more than the mura, so much less than 2h UGS. Overall, the r1s are very narrow, similar to the scythes (reg scythe does not count, it's a halberd), but if you hit someone with them they're very likely to be stunned. Full giants and full havels give me a bit of a problem, but they're surprisingly rare, and even then, that's usually only about half of my stamina to stagger them.

    For quick attacks I keep a pyro glove, a talisman, GC, and WotG in my offhand (along with GCF and Chaos Storm). Also, do you think it's worth keeping GCF? GF is just as good on damage, but the lava blinds and discourages enemies. I've also seen it used as cover to cast an AoE, but I always get bs'ed. Maybe I should try backing up against a tree or a wall or something.

    Actually, the narrow attacks on the gaxe are very good in some cases, for instance after crossing Alvina's bridge I like to wait in ambush and hit people with my mura or a storm, but the muras wide r1 swings hit the walls or the stair railing thingy. The gaxe doesn't have that problem, and you can just go to town, especially if the other person has a wide swing weapon.

    Fun story of incredible incompetence: I spawn by the Demonic Foliage, and our friendly neighborhood host and his sunbro buddy see me and come running. I munch some grass and coat my Mura in citrus (it hurts when it gets into your wounds), and the host casts twop. I roll back, keeping my camera on the host, and get stuck on a log. I keep rolling, hoping to get past it, but there's a tree at the end that traps me. By this point, they've reached me, and I can barely move. I 2h my mura and swing wildly at the host. The tree shields me from the phantom, I instantly stunlock the host, and in spite of the fact that I hit the tree every time I swing, I stack up 1.7k damage on him and kill him.

    Quarik - great information on the Great Axe. I don't think I will ever use it (a little too cumbersome for my tastes but you never know though) but I have fought with a hunter who wielded it fairly effectively. Yeah I can tell it has stun-locking capabilities and its high damage coated with SLB and you have yourself a winner.

    Yeah, I am like you - I really never could master PW while invading - I need time to do my thing. I am not a dash right at my opponent kind of guy. The only reason I can see ever using it is when I have no choice and it is my last and final option. In my opinion PW makes a very good "last stand" type of buff.

    Good times with the old trusty old Mura :heart: - I am glad to hear you have come to like the weapon. Just learn when you can use it and when you can't - and the BSS is a great back-up weapon ( I alternate between a normal, enchanted and occult versions). I haven't used the BSS in while though (been experimenting a lot with different build-outs) I really need to check out the dead angling ability.

    Great job with the campers that is the way its supposed to be done twisted !!


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    Re: For the Glory of Alvina

    Post by Quarik on Tue Apr 17, 2012 11:16 pm

    Yeah, I alternate weirdly. Sometimes I'm more aggressive than Cloud (crazy, I know), and sometimes I'm almost as cautious as Broke.


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    Re: For the Glory of Alvina

    Post by Brokewilly on Tue Apr 17, 2012 11:37 pm

    Quarik wrote:Yeah, I alternate weirdly. Sometimes I'm more aggressive than Cloud (crazy, I know), and sometimes I'm almost as cautious as Broke.

    Then you are playing using the best of both worlds - you know when to go in for the kill while still not falling for the stupid tricks these campers are trying. Survivability and adaptability then mix in some ruthlessness and you have just baked a great cake!!


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    Re: For the Glory of Alvina

    Post by cloudyeki on Tue Apr 17, 2012 11:46 pm

    I actually prefer GCF over great fireball for it's obscuring and damaging lava. A sinister trick is to blind them with the flash and either escape, attack, or ready another trick. It's a game of chess and All my pawns have become rooks, knights, bishops, and queens.


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    Re: For the Glory of Alvina

    Post by Quarik on Wed Apr 18, 2012 12:21 am

    Broke- It's really not the best of both. I'm usually overly cautious when I need to be aggressive, and vice versa. I always go super ridiculous when I see the summoning phantom message, but I scope it out a little bit when I see "Dark Spirit *insert incredibly lame name here* has Invaded" in case it's an enemy red. Sometimes I start hyper-aggressive and take a bit of damage, then run away to set up a trap. Sometimes it goes really well and they tangle in my webs of fire, lava, lightning, and iron... and sometimes they get the momentum and lagstab me.

    Incidentally, do you know if Dark Spirits summoned via the RSS show up as invasions or summons? It'd be a major indicator of an extra hostile if it said that they were summoned.


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    Re: For the Glory of Alvina

    Post by cloudyeki on Wed Apr 18, 2012 12:25 am

    It says summoned. Though till be cautious around them, as if you show your a friendly they'll gladly jump to your defense.


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    Re: For the Glory of Alvina

    Post by Quarik on Wed Apr 18, 2012 12:29 am

    I am envious of you. I've never seen a friendly that invades via RSS.


    Last edited by Quarik on Wed Apr 18, 2012 12:44 am; edited 1 time in total


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    cloudyeki
    Compulsory Poster
    Compulsory Poster

    Posts : 3685
    Reputation : 101
    Join date : 2012-03-19
    Age : 25
    Location : Cali

    Re: For the Glory of Alvina

    Post by cloudyeki on Wed Apr 18, 2012 12:30 am

    It was pure luck. If they ever make a miracle based off me it would be called super luck.


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    Re: For the Glory of Alvina

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