Shower Idea! (make all upgrades useful)

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    Blade of The Sun
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    Shower Idea! (make all upgrades useful)

    Post by Blade of The Sun on Sun Apr 22, 2012 4:10 pm

    I thought of this while I was in the shower and thought i'd share with community to tweak and play with.

    We are going to make upgrades useful. Currently, I can't see why anyone would choose any upgrade besides +15 and then buff your weapon. So we are going to give the other paths a facelift. here We Go.


    Normal- As is or slightly improved based on the results of the other upgrades. currently though the normal path feels just perfect to me.

    Raw- Raw is significantly weaker and so a little improvement could give it exactly what it needs to be a viable option. This is what I purpose. Increase strength scaling and improve physical damage slightly. Taking a dexterity weapon to this upgrade path removes dexterity scaling(or reduces it significantly) and reapplies scaling to strength.

    Crystal- Crystal also needs a few tweaks I think(in fact most of the upgrades will need them.). Crystalizing a weapon adds minor strength scaling and an appropriate amount of intelligence scaling. Dexterity based weapons are converted to strength weapons. Adds Magic damage.

    I haven't decided whether or not I want Crystal or Raw to do extra crushing damage. We'll see what the community thinks.


    Lightening- the only thing I want to do with the elemental upgrades is add an appropriate amount of scaling to them. Lightening will scale with Dexterity.

    Magic- I like this as it is, only just buff the scaling of some weapons when converted to pure magic.

    Enchanted- When using this path you gain scaling to dexterity and intelligence. Adds Magic damage.

    Divine- Divine scales with Str and Faith and applies a small hp regen buff.

    Occult- Occult scales to dex and faith and applies a leech life effect when struck by an Occult weapon, like server.

    Fire- Fire you can keep as is except it scales with str and dex.

    Chaos- The idea of humanity increasing it's out is great, but maybe a slight buff to compete with the other new upgrades would be enough.

    I will be doing scaling grade tests to appropriate the right amount of scaling but until then discuss.


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    Re: Shower Idea! (make all upgrades useful)

    Post by Imarreteet23 on Sun Apr 22, 2012 4:21 pm

    Shower ideas are always the best ideas! lol!

    I like all of your ideas, except for the Raw one. To be precise, I don't think that's enough of a buff. The reason is, is because normal upgrade paths already increase scaling, so essentialy, if I understand your idea correctly, than it would be a weaker version of a normal upgrade. Also, I think that elementals should get very miniscule scaling. Maybe like a C.


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    Re: Shower Idea! (make all upgrades useful)

    Post by Artorias on Sun Apr 22, 2012 4:21 pm

    Scaling would defeat the point of elementals though.


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    Re: Shower Idea! (make all upgrades useful)

    Post by Langoulk on Sun Apr 22, 2012 4:52 pm

    I agree, elemental shouldn't scale with anything, it should be kept as base elemental damage. Fire claymores are already OP enough...


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    Re: Shower Idea! (make all upgrades useful)

    Post by Forum Pirate on Sun Apr 22, 2012 4:56 pm

    Does no one remember power within? heavier elemental weapons slaughter with it


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    Re: Shower Idea! (make all upgrades useful)

    Post by aceluby on Sun Apr 22, 2012 5:27 pm

    Due to the way defense is handled I think a buff to magic, enchanted, divine, and occult is in order. I think everything else is handled pretty well. Raw is great for mid & low level before you have access to other upgrade paths. Non-scaling for elemental weapons makes melee possible w/ non Str & Dex based chars.


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    Re: Shower Idea! (make all upgrades useful)

    Post by Buggy Virus on Sun Apr 22, 2012 5:59 pm

    I personally think crystal should stay physical. There is no reason it should change to intelligence, it's meant to be the generally strongest scaling weapons you can have for any class. This would make it instead caster weapons.

    On elementals, I think they are just fine as they are, the charm of them is that they don't scale, so you can't rely on that huge base damage. If they have had huge base damage and ok scaling they would be like all the other endgame paths and that would be redundant.

    On the intelligence and faith scaling ones I think that there should be better scaling on str and dex , but no particular favoring. They are meant to be helpful for general intellect or fatih builds, not dex int builds or str fai builds.

    Occult is a cool idea, but life drain is a little powerful for any occult weapon.


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    Re: Shower Idea! (make all upgrades useful)

    Post by RANT on Sun Apr 22, 2012 6:11 pm

    Forum Pirate wrote:Does no one remember power within? heavier elemental weapons slaughter with it

    the same can be said baout every weeapon that has good scaling, heavy weapons do pack a punch but lighter weapons are faster can put up more damage faster. i love my slow weapons though, like my dgm, dgh, grant, msgs(not so slow), mace and pickaxe.


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    Re: Shower Idea! (make all upgrades useful)

    Post by sparkly-twinkly-lizard on Sun Apr 22, 2012 6:21 pm

    e scaling will add around 40 damage to the most common elemntal weapons... soo e rank scaling would be okay. as for raw and crystal... raw should have another path off of it requiring chunks possibly "ragged or tearing" that adds bleed at the cost of scaling (base dmg increases the same rate as before) crystal should only halve a weapons durability otherwise its fine. or raw weapons could have a special effect on item buffs increasing their time limit by 30 seconds and an extra 15% damage but only for resins!


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    Re: Shower Idea! (make all upgrades useful)

    Post by RANT on Sun Apr 22, 2012 6:22 pm

    sparkly-twinkly-lizard wrote:e scaling will add around 40 damage to the most common elemntal weapons... soo e rank scaling would be okay. as for raw and crystal... raw should have another path off of it requiring chunks possibly "ragged or tearing" that adds bleed at the cost of scaling (base dmg increases the same rate as before) crystal should only halve a weapons durability otherwise its fine. or raw weapons could have a special effect on item buffs increasing their time limit by 30 seconds and an extra 15% damage but only for resins!

    yeah the upgrade paths in dark are so disappointing compared to demon's.


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    Re: Shower Idea! (make all upgrades useful)

    Post by Blade of The Sun on Sun Apr 22, 2012 8:07 pm

    The idea is to balance out all the damage to a specific range for the upgrade path's aux effects.

    Example.

    Divine and Occult will probably deal the least amount of damage, but for what they lack their special effects will make up for. So if you have most weapons with a 600-700 AR tweak the scaling and Aux to a relative number within this range. This means that a divine or Occult may have 500AR but if I am regening HP or stealing HP with each hit I could easily contend with a Lightening weapon that has 700AR. Add in the fact that you essentially want a dexterity scaling weapon with occult or a str weapon for Divine and you have a viable option covering the two main types of faith builds. I'm gonna spend the next couple of days trying to figure out exactly what grades to use to balance out all the damage and go from there.

    I'm not sure if anyone has commented on Crushing blow Damage, but a little bit of insight would be nice. Is it in Dark Souls? How was it calculated in DmS? how would you calculate it in this idea? It looks like to me Raw may benefit most from crushing damage based on the feedback in this thread thus far. Crystal and Enchanted were seen like Divine and Occult, but maybe it would be best to compare D&O to Reg&Raw and M&E. If people are truly against having three different types of magic upgrades I wouldn't mind tweaking it back to having 3 physical types. I just think Magic may be more interesting for people.


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    Re: Shower Idea! (make all upgrades useful)

    Post by BLA1NE on Sun Apr 22, 2012 9:39 pm

    I hate to shoot down people's ideas, believe me... especially to be in favor of the status quo. But I'm going to have to disagree with your idea.

    As they are now, the different upgrade paths are perfectly suited for different character levels. It's almost like using the right catalyst for your level if you're a Mage. If you're upgrading weapons and you're mid-low level, go for elemental. If you're high level, go for regular. Raw is pretty much for challenge runs...

    Magic/ Enchanted and Divine/ Occult could potentially get a buff, I guess. But elemental and physical upgrades should stay the same, in my opinion.

    (Also, Demon's Souls allowed you to pick your upgrade path along which stat you wanted your weapon to scale with. This could potentially make Dark Souls a balancing-nightmare of epic proportions!)


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    Re: Shower Idea! (make all upgrades useful)

    Post by Serious_Much on Sun Apr 22, 2012 10:02 pm

    Let's be honest, we just want good upgrades of Demon's back (adjusted slightly obviously, and without horrendous farming), except using the 15 level upgrade pathways since they provide good easy to use intervals for modification.

    that would be a win/win situation in my book, hope FROM do something like that next game rather than keeping favour with the "Catch all" titanite system


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    Re: Shower Idea! (make all upgrades useful)

    Post by Blade of The Sun on Mon Apr 23, 2012 2:19 am

    It is now clear that if any of the upgrade paths are changed, all of them must be reworked.


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    It walks among the pained, unable to help their wretched souls as they suffer on.
    It finds solace in the fact that it is at least trying.
    It then feels it can no longer take their pains without the power to end them.
    and so, it takes on a demon soul, and becomes not a fair and pure maiden, but a lost executioner who finds peace in helping the pained pass on from this life.

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