Scaling vs Elemental?

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    Ironliftr3
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    Scaling vs Elemental?

    Post by Ironliftr3 on Thu Apr 19, 2012 5:49 pm

    At what point does it become more beneficial to use scaling and buffs with weapons upgraded to 1 - 15 as opposed to using upgrade paths such as fire, lightning, divine, occult, etc? I've yet to discover a 1-15 up weapon to be more powerful than my fire/lightening weapons.

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    Re: Scaling vs Elemental?

    Post by RANT on Thu Apr 19, 2012 5:51 pm

    pretty early, depends how you level up youre str or dex, i usually level up my str right away, if you level your str up to 27 and faith right away and use slb/dmb you can do some serious damage, its pretty much the same as beign sl 120 or above.


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    Re: Scaling vs Elemental?

    Post by Rynn on Thu Apr 19, 2012 5:52 pm

    Due to how scaling works, you receive more damage via a Scaling weapon at any point where your Strength (or Dex if it's Dex scale) is above 28.
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    Re: Scaling vs Elemental?

    Post by GkMrBane on Thu Apr 19, 2012 6:08 pm

    Are you sure thats right?

    I have a 623 character that I use to test weapons and such that when I had a Lit greatsword +5 and a +15 greatsword the Elemental one still out preformed it Without a buff on it. now with the sunlight buff it did 945 or around that and thats not even and epic improvement.

    It seems like a waste of state points to use buff weapons unless you are above 90.

    SL 6 Bandit can use Lit Zwei+ 5 so why wast the points when you could use them for more practical means.
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    Re: Scaling vs Elemental?

    Post by Rynn on Thu Apr 19, 2012 6:51 pm


    >Greatsword
    There is your problem sir, there is a -few- weapons that are SO powerful that the lightning version outDPSes them no matter what your stats are. For lighter weapons, Stats give you FAR better DPS, lightning is a cheap but effective way to move your points somewhere else, but the most DPS can be received elsewhere.
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    Re: Scaling vs Elemental?

    Post by RANT on Thu Apr 19, 2012 6:51 pm

    GkMrBane wrote:Are you sure thats right?

    I have a 623 character that I use to test weapons and such that when I had a Lit greatsword +5 and a +15 greatsword the Elemental one still out preformed it Without a buff on it. now with the sunlight buff it did 945 or around that and thats not even and epic improvement.

    It seems like a waste of state points to use buff weapons unless you are above 90.

    SL 6 Bandit can use Lit Zwei+ 5 so why wast the points when you could use them for more practical means.

    it's because you're using a weapon that has a C and D scale. try a buffed msgs and you'll see the difference.


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    Re: Scaling vs Elemental?

    Post by BLA1NE on Thu Apr 19, 2012 7:33 pm

    Also, don't confuse attack rating (weapon's damage stat as shown in the stats menu) with real damage.

    We're in the process of finding out precisely how defense works, after which we'll be able to know exactly when scaling weapons overtake elemental weapons. In the mean time, though, you should know that weapons that only deal 1 type of damage outdamage weapons that have split damage types, despite the higher AR of the latter. So, for now, you need to test your pure weapons vs your split damage weapons to know which ones are actually stronger, since you can't trust the AR 100%.

    For more info, and to know where the research is at now, you can read the thread: http://soulswiki.forumsrpg.com/t4295-attack-rating-vs-real-damage-analysis-of-defense


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    Re: Scaling vs Elemental?

    Post by GkMrBane on Fri Apr 20, 2012 9:33 am

    So im assuming the meaning to this is that for Gswords and UGswords elemental vs +15 = about the same since you have more points to spend else where vs having a weapon you can buff.

    Side note I hate farming for souviners.

    Other side note: did you guys know that you can lag out the swings with ultraGS (just the weapon that its most notable with) if you R1 with it two handed the amount of time between the first swing and the second is about 1.2 secs thats why its easy to parry but you can hold off on the second swing till 1.8sec and still get in the second attack animation which is useful for dealing with people who try to constantly parry.
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    Re: Scaling vs Elemental?

    Post by Forum Pirate on Fri Apr 20, 2012 10:03 am

    Yes. It works with most every weapon though. And good parry hounds (see: not parry spammers) will figure it out and either give up or adjust and get you anyways.


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    Re: Scaling vs Elemental?

    Post by GkMrBane on Fri Apr 20, 2012 10:46 am

    Is force a cheap move? like wotg

    Cause I use a combination of ultraGS's and a force every now and again to attack peoples poise .
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    Re: Scaling vs Elemental?

    Post by Rynn on Fri Apr 20, 2012 2:49 pm

    GkMrBane wrote:Is force a cheap move? like wotg

    Cause I use a combination of ultraGS's and a force every now and again to attack peoples poise .
    Force is not cheap.
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    Re: Scaling vs Elemental?

    Post by aceluby on Fri Apr 20, 2012 3:06 pm

    Rynn wrote:
    GkMrBane wrote:Is force a cheap move? like wotg

    Cause I use a combination of ultraGS's and a force every now and again to attack peoples poise .
    Force is not cheap.

    Agreed, just good strategy, especially if you mix in a WoTG. What I like to do is pull of a WotG on BS fishers and then use force to keep them at bay or knock them back and give them a swing.


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    Re: Scaling vs Elemental?

    Post by Yarxov on Fri Apr 20, 2012 6:22 pm

    ^Why not bait them with force ("Ha! force! That's not dangerous at all...") then whip out WotG for a nasty surprise?


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    Re: Scaling vs Elemental?

    Post by Argetlam350 on Fri Apr 20, 2012 11:11 pm

    Okay I have a question sort of pertaining to this. Kind of a dumb question but what's better: a +15 Zweihander or a +5 Lighting Zweihander? Curious because I'm debating on leveling the one I have to either one but not sure which one would be more helpful in the long run of things.


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    Re: Scaling vs Elemental?

    Post by RANT on Fri Apr 20, 2012 11:15 pm

    Argetlam350 wrote:Okay I have a question sort of pertaining to this. Kind of a dumb question but what's better: a +15 Zweihander or a +5 Lighting Zweihander? Curious because I'm debating on leveling the one I have to either one but not sure which one would be more helpful in the long run of things.

    chaos +5 beats lightning+5, i would go with chaos if you can have more than 10 humanity at all times(i always have 99). but a +15 with a buff will hit a lot harder than an elemental zwei.


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    Re: Scaling vs Elemental?

    Post by reim0027 on Fri Apr 20, 2012 11:25 pm

    In my tests, +15 beat everything (based on 3 types of armor: lightnig defense, fire defense, and physical defense). The only exception is for Naked armor (so, Dragon Body enemies).

    Check out this thread: http://soulswiki.forumsrpg.com/t4295-attack-rating-vs-real-damage-analysis-of-defense

    For my spreadsheet of actual damage, here's a DL link. rapidshare.com Weapon_Test.xls


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    Re: Scaling vs Elemental?

    Post by Argetlam350 on Fri Apr 20, 2012 11:26 pm

    RantFromRant wrote:
    Argetlam350 wrote:Okay I have a question sort of pertaining to this. Kind of a dumb question but what's better: a +15 Zweihander or a +5 Lighting Zweihander? Curious because I'm debating on leveling the one I have to either one but not sure which one would be more helpful in the long run of things.

    chaos +5 beats lightning+5, i would go with chaos if you can have more than 10 humanity at all times(i always have 99). but a +15 with a buff will hit a lot harder than an elemental zwei.

    I see thanks for the answer. I'm not into Chaos weapons much so I'll probably go +15 with buffs then. Thanks for the help.


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    Re: Scaling vs Elemental?

    Post by reim0027 on Fri Apr 20, 2012 11:27 pm

    +15 is a good choice, LOL, you posted almost the exact same time I did, so check out my post above for specific damage details.


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    Re: Scaling vs Elemental?

    Post by Argetlam350 on Sat Apr 21, 2012 2:51 am

    reim0027 wrote:+15 is a good choice, LOL, you posted almost the exact same time I did, so check out my post above for specific damage details.


    Lol ya it seems we did.

    But ya now testing out the +15 with a buff, it's definiltely gives out more damage then a +5 lightning.


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