The RES stat

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    Re: The RES stat

    Post by T-King-667 on Thu Apr 19, 2012 5:45 pm

    Rynn wrote:Unless there is a hidden modifier on res, you won't. You get an extra 12 points from it with the best armor.
    thos 12 points is gonna save your life one day ;P
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    Re: The RES stat

    Post by Rynn on Thu Apr 19, 2012 5:49 pm

    Check the Archives, there is diminishing returns on that.
    It;s as plausible to say that will save you, as it is to say my 96 HP will.
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    Re: The RES stat

    Post by lextune on Thu Apr 19, 2012 5:51 pm

    T-King-667 wrote:Allright from sitting here thinking way too much ive thought out a way res can be usefull. Okay make a Deprived class (or a man eater mildred build) or any unarmourd build and bring your str, res, vit, and end to 40 then by the end of it all your natural phys def should be at about 300+ ( i think) without any armour to diminish the stat.

    Nope.

    Even with 99 in every stat and 99 humanity you only hit 206 in physical defense when naked.

    http://tinyurl.com/86gofc9

    I have a level 190 Dragon with 99 humanity and his PD is 171.


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    Re: The RES stat

    Post by Blade of The Sun on Thu Apr 19, 2012 6:16 pm

    I believe (based on my personal studies) that resistance at the popular breakpoints gives more defense overall than the other stats, but it basically disables your offensive power.

    My studies basically state that 30-45 in each stat the usefulness to defense per point looks like...

    RES>FAI>END>VIT>STR>INT>DEX

    Note that the difference in RES and FAI per point is marginally small, which would expain why people go for FAI plus HUM over RES and FAI.

    Why would you try to max defenses you ask? WoS tanking. Pick a weapon that scales to faith (preferably one that hits hard) and from there max out RES FaI End STR in that order and keep your host free to do damage and you just sit and take the blows. This setup is not optimal for PvP.


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    Re: The RES stat

    Post by T-King-667 on Thu Apr 19, 2012 6:19 pm

    *update* I have my res stat at 40 And that is still the only stat that i have upgraded (everything else is still at 11 and im still not wearing Armour)
    Phy def: 105
    vs strike/slash/thrust: 105
    Magic def:68
    Flame def:120
    Lightning def: 73
    Bleed resis:43 (hasent changed)
    poison/toxic resist:107
    curse res:80
    I have 3 humanity in stock because i ran out of flask when i fought kellog (quelaag).

    And now when i upgrade my other stats it still increases my phys def by 1's and 2's so at what point will it drop and barly upgrade? because at this rate by the time i upgrade the reast of my stats to 40 my pd will be at around 210.
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    Re: The RES stat

    Post by sparkly-twinkly-lizard on Thu Apr 19, 2012 6:21 pm

    time for a true maneater build, 40 vit, 40 end, 30-40 str, 40 res, using only a scak and butcher knife and .... im not pro enough for the plank shield so.... maybe a barbed shield or something...


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    Re: The RES stat

    Post by T-King-667 on Thu Apr 19, 2012 6:39 pm

    sparkly-twinkly-lizard wrote:time for a true maneater build, 40 vit, 40 end, 30-40 str, 40 res, using only a scak and butcher knife and .... im not pro enough for the plank shield so.... maybe a barbed shield or something...
    Well knowing that Mildred is immune to poison and toxic resistance would work rather well for the build (maxed out sack may help as well) and its nice to see somebody legitimately attempt to use the res stat for a build, Heres what i would have on a Mildred build
    Vit:40
    End:30
    Str:40
    res:50
    Wears a maxed out sack and weilds a plank sheild and a clever+15
    rings: rusted ring (she travels at max speed in the water) and rofap?
    I think this build could work?

    And thanks for your imput sun, i dident think faith actually worked better than most stats for defence purposes.
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    Re: The RES stat

    Post by Blade of The Sun on Thu Apr 19, 2012 8:00 pm

    T-King-667 wrote:

    And thanks for your imput sun, i dident think faith actually worked better than most stats for defence purposes.

    You're welcome. Faith both in Demon's and dark souls is great for magical defense. I would put Vitality as a priority over strength though as a personal preference just because more HP equals longer life span most of the time.


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    Re: The RES stat

    Post by T-King-667 on Thu Apr 19, 2012 8:30 pm

    T-King-667 wrote:*update* I have my res stat at 40 And that is still the only stat that i have upgraded (everything else is still at 11 and im still not wearing Armour)
    Phy def: 105
    vs strike/slash/thrust: 105
    Magic def:68
    Flame def:120
    Lightning def: 73
    Bleed resis:43 (hasent changed)
    poison/toxic resist:107
    curse res:80
    I have 3 humanity in stock because i ran out of flask when i fought kellog (quelaag).

    And now when i upgrade my other stats it still increases my phys def by 1's and 2's so at what point will it drop and barly upgrade? because at this rate by the time i upgrade the reast of my stats to 40 my pd will be at around 210.

    *Update* Ive got my str up to 25 and my sl is 49 this is how it looks so far. And i dont have any humanity compared to my last update where i had 3 in stock.
    phy def:114
    vs strike/slash/thrust:114
    magic def:77
    Flame def:123
    lightning def:84
    bleed resis:44
    Poison res:107
    Curse res:30 (decreased because i have no humanity at this point.)

    So
    far i have died twice due to invaders. And heres a tidbit, im still
    unclothed and useing a club and when i faced smough (second form) when
    he did his jumoping arse electric smash i was trapped under it and it
    only did 3/4's of my health all my stats are still at 11 except for str
    (25) and res(40) as i go on im getting suprised more and more i cant
    beleive how well im doing without touching vit. and still useing plank
    sheild.
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    Re: The RES stat

    Post by T-King-667 on Thu Apr 19, 2012 10:48 pm

    T-King-667 wrote:
    T-King-667 wrote:*update* I have my res stat at 40 And that is still the only stat that i have upgraded (everything else is still at 11 and im still not wearing Armour)
    Phy def: 105
    vs strike/slash/thrust: 105
    Magic def:68
    Flame def:120
    Lightning def: 73
    Bleed resis:43 (hasent changed)
    poison/toxic resist:107
    curse res:80
    I have 3 humanity in stock because i ran out of flask when i fought kellog (quelaag).

    And now when i upgrade my other stats it still increases my phys def by 1's and 2's so at what point will it drop and barly upgrade? because at this rate by the time i upgrade the reast of my stats to 40 my pd will be at around 210.

    *Update* Ive got my str up to 25 and my sl is 49 this is how it looks so far. And i dont have any humanity compared to my last update where i had 3 in stock.
    phy def:114
    vs strike/slash/thrust:114
    magic def:77
    Flame def:123
    lightning def:84
    bleed resis:44
    Poison res:107
    Curse res:30 (decreased because i have no humanity at this point.)

    So
    far i have died twice due to invaders. And heres a tidbit, im still
    unclothed and useing a club and when i faced smough (second form) when
    he did his jumoping arse electric smash i was trapped under it and it
    only did 3/4's of my health all my stats are still at 11 except for str
    (25) and res(40) as i go on im getting suprised more and more i cant
    beleive how well im doing without touching vit. and still useing plank
    sheild.

    Update: As of sl 54 and str being 30 the pd stat does not increase evry lvl up anymore.
    so at this point my pd is at 120.
    Heres a few things i found interesting. im still able to be summoned to help out others with quelaag and iron golly and they cause very mediocre damage ( at least a good 4 hits to kill me from quelaag and a good 3-4 from gollum. Not only that but where my vit is still at 11 when the host heals it almost completely recovers my health in one go. I never got poisoned from the water yet either. And imagine if i had even theifs armour? id be a damn tank alone with that lol (with unupgraded theifs armour my pd is 180)
    Id say ill finish upgradeing my character within a day or two then ill mess around with more armour and see how much defense i get from them.
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    Re: The RES stat

    Post by Blade of The Sun on Thu Apr 19, 2012 11:28 pm

    interesting.... So I decided to participate in the theorycraft of RES... I am using the planner widget to do my studies. I don't have the time to devote to extensive ingame testing anymore.

    Look at what I found by using your data.

    40 RES, 30 STR:

    Warrior- http://tinyurl.com/6tnozd9

    Knight- http://tinyurl.com/7ahhttd

    Deprived- http://tinyurl.com/6mzt97v

    I hope there is a pattern being shown here. Your class actually determines how high your defense can get. So, this means that every little choice makes a difference when considering a build like this.

    Taking the same 40 RES we will test Faith to see if it gives better values.

    40 RES, 30 FAI:

    Warrior- http://tinyurl.com/78srgnd

    Knight- http://tinyurl.com/6nkn5kp

    Deprived- http://tinyurl.com/73bfgpd


    So what this has shown me at first glance is that for optimal defense http://tinyurl.com/78srgnd is the best option to go with.



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    A soul, pure and true.
    It enters the valley of corruption, with nothing but faith and a freind.
    It walks among the pained, unable to help their wretched souls as they suffer on.
    It finds solace in the fact that it is at least trying.
    It then feels it can no longer take their pains without the power to end them.
    and so, it takes on a demon soul, and becomes not a fair and pure maiden, but a lost executioner who finds peace in helping the pained pass on from this life.
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    Re: The RES stat

    Post by BLA1NE on Fri Apr 20, 2012 12:11 am

    ^No, starting class doesn't affect anything beyond base stats and starting gear. It's just that defense isn't linked to Soul Level, but to your stats. Have a look:

    - Warrior: Starting Level 4, Current Level 63
    - Thief: Starting Level 5, Current Level 64
    - Knight: Starting Level 5, Current Level 64
    - Deprived: Starting Level 6, Current Level 63

    Edit: that is, if we can trust this tool as much as we all have, to this point!


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    Re: The RES stat

    Post by Blade of The Sun on Fri Apr 20, 2012 2:50 am

    Blaine, you actually plainly stated what I was leaning towards, but your examples actually show that by raising everyones stat to the same intervals without prioritizing any stat before another that the defense is the same. What I am saying though is that if you raise certain stats together you will get better defense per SL depending on your base stats(starting Class). So Base stats would optimize your Soul Level and the diminishing returns for your defense. Warrior seems to be the middle of the road.

    In less complicated terms, there are certain classes that adapt better to defensive diminishing returns.

    Example:

    A Knight and Theif are the same starting level(5). With the formula of raising RES and FAI for best possible Defense(RES-40/FAI-30) the Knight and Thief have the exact same SL and Identical Defensive values. If you compare this to a Warrior(with the same formula) you have identical SL's but defensive values have changed. Most notably phys is 1 point higher, magic is 1 point and Lightening is 2 points higher. What makes this weird is that a Deprived actually receives the same values as a Warrior(SL and all) but he starts out at a 6. Very curious how that has happened.


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    A soul, pure and true.
    It enters the valley of corruption, with nothing but faith and a freind.
    It walks among the pained, unable to help their wretched souls as they suffer on.
    It finds solace in the fact that it is at least trying.
    It then feels it can no longer take their pains without the power to end them.
    and so, it takes on a demon soul, and becomes not a fair and pure maiden, but a lost executioner who finds peace in helping the pained pass on from this life.
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    Re: The RES stat

    Post by Rynn on Fri Apr 20, 2012 3:26 am

    T-King-667 wrote:
    T-King-667 wrote:
    T-King-667 wrote:*update* I have my res stat at 40 And that is still the only stat that i have upgraded (everything else is still at 11 and im still not wearing Armour)
    Phy def: 105
    vs strike/slash/thrust: 105
    Magic def:68
    Flame def:120
    Lightning def: 73
    Bleed resis:43 (hasent changed)
    poison/toxic resist:107
    curse res:80
    I have 3 humanity in stock because i ran out of flask when i fought kellog (quelaag).

    And now when i upgrade my other stats it still increases my phys def by 1's and 2's so at what point will it drop and barly upgrade? because at this rate by the time i upgrade the reast of my stats to 40 my pd will be at around 210.

    *Update* Ive got my str up to 25 and my sl is 49 this is how it looks so far. And i dont have any humanity compared to my last update where i had 3 in stock.
    phy def:114
    vs strike/slash/thrust:114
    magic def:77
    Flame def:123
    lightning def:84
    bleed resis:44
    Poison res:107
    Curse res:30 (decreased because i have no humanity at this point.)

    So
    far i have died twice due to invaders. And heres a tidbit, im still
    unclothed and useing a club and when i faced smough (second form) when
    he did his jumoping arse electric smash i was trapped under it and it
    only did 3/4's of my health all my stats are still at 11 except for str
    (25) and res(40) as i go on im getting suprised more and more i cant
    beleive how well im doing without touching vit. and still useing plank
    sheild.

    Update: As of sl 54 and str being 30 the pd stat does not increase evry lvl up anymore.
    so at this point my pd is at 120.
    Heres a few things i found interesting. im still able to be summoned to help out others with quelaag and iron golly and they cause very mediocre damage ( at least a good 4 hits to kill me from quelaag and a good 3-4 from gollum. Not only that but where my vit is still at 11 when the host heals it almost completely recovers my health in one go. I never got poisoned from the water yet either. And imagine if i had even theifs armour? id be a damn tank alone with that lol (with unupgraded theifs armour my pd is 180)
    Id say ill finish upgradeing my character within a day or two then ill mess around with more armour and see how much defense i get from them.
    I'm very interested in what you're doing... I'll be doing this tommorow.
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    Re: The RES stat

    Post by Rynn on Fri Apr 20, 2012 5:32 am

    Oh my. This is sort of a "see it yourself" event, Resistance has some hidden modifiers on it.
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    Re: The RES stat

    Post by T-King-667 on Fri Apr 20, 2012 5:42 am

    Rynn wrote:Oh my. This is sort of a "see it yourself" event, Resistance has some hidden modifiers on it.
    You really think so Rynn?
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    Re: The RES stat

    Post by Rynn on Fri Apr 20, 2012 5:46 am

    I'm absolutely positive something is going on here. I don't survive the type of stuff I'm surviving right now with good armor and 900 HP, yet this RES char can survive it without any armor at all.
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    Re: The RES stat

    Post by T-King-667 on Fri Apr 20, 2012 6:28 am

    Rynn wrote:[color:f471=#000000]I'm absolutely positive something is going on here. I don't survive the type of stuff I'm surviving right now with good armor and 900 HP, yet this RES char can survive it without any armor at all.
    Ha i knew the stat couldent have been useless as 99.9% of the world said it was (us being the 0.1%) i for now on will call you deputy cabbage for aiding me in this case!
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    Re: The RES stat

    Post by Rynn on Fri Apr 20, 2012 6:31 am

    T-King-667 wrote:
    Rynn wrote:[color=#000000]I'm absolutely positive something is going on here. I don't survive the type of stuff I'm surviving right now with good armor and 900 HP, yet this RES char can survive it without any armor at all.
    Ha i knew the stat couldent have been useless as 99.9% of the world said it was (us being the 0.1%) i for now on will call you deputy cabbage for aiding me in this case!
    Hold on now... I did some constructive research.
    Resistance does nothing for player damage.
    Sir Isaac and I exchanged blows with Drake Swords, each taking 180 damage per hit. However, in PvE, The mobs hit him for 175 and they hit me for 134.
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    Re: The RES stat

    Post by Forum Pirate on Fri Apr 20, 2012 6:34 am

    So still useless for the pvpers that make up 80% of this forum.

    good find though


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    Re: The RES stat

    Post by Rynn on Fri Apr 20, 2012 6:37 am

    Forum Pirate wrote:So still useless for the pvpers that make up 80% of this forum.

    good find though
    Godly for PvE, The bridge Wyvern goes from doing 700 to doing 230. I'll do some more tests later to see if it has any effect at all on PvP, but so far it seems to be a strict PvE stat.
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    Re: The RES stat

    Post by T-King-667 on Fri Apr 20, 2012 6:44 am

    Forum Pirate wrote:So still useless for the pvpers that make up 80% of this forum.

    good find though
    Hey man were actually on to something or i mean deputy cabbage is onto something that could actually make this bloody stat useful, Actually making the res stat useful can you actually beleive that?, whether it be pve or co-op its still actually finding a use for the stat.
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    Re: The RES stat

    Post by Rynn on Fri Apr 20, 2012 7:10 am

    I can't do anything without the assistance of Sir Issac though, He's keeping his Res at 12, so I can easier see the difference in DPS inbetween the two of us. We're going to prolly run through Anor Londo tommorow and see how the Res stat effects the damage we take.

    I'm curious on if Res has -any- effect on PvP at all. Technically, Sir Isaac was hitting 179 on me, and I was hitting 180 on him (with the same defense number), so perhaps at some point it has some noticable effect in PvP as well.
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    Re: The RES stat

    Post by Darkson on Fri Apr 20, 2012 9:44 am

    It would be cool if armor scaled with RES, only... would it make sense?

    Or the damage reduction of shields and weapons also...

    But of course the easiest way to balance things out (for PvP) would be just raising the resistance/defense-numbers you get from leveling up.


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    Re: The RES stat

    Post by sparkly-twinkly-lizard on Fri Apr 20, 2012 12:49 pm

    welll, i remember hearing that light armor works better with res than heavy armor... sooo... this stat might work for a painting guardian build... also res increases fire res more than any other stat i've seen... hmm btw ive seen some weird things with poison lately, like it doing damage in 4's instead of 3's maybe high res could lower it to 2 dmg intervales or something?


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    Re: The RES stat

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