second chance

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    Re: second chance

    Post by Forum Pirate on Sun Apr 15, 2012 11:30 pm

    I think the real thing here is that from should scrap 80% of the changes they made, and make the next one demons 3.0

    New world, old school.


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    Re: second chance

    Post by vageta31 on Mon Apr 16, 2012 12:18 am

    Absolutely no second chance in DkS. You think there are clones now? Imagine how many faith users we'd see if SC was in the game. Everyone would be a DMB+3 using, second chancing monster because you'd have to in order to keep up. It'd be pretty pointless going INT when your spells don't work in pvp very well and if you're doing it just for CMW then it's totally wasted when you can get SB, DMB, Wog, TWoP and now second chance as a bonus.


    It was broken in DeS and it's exactly why they removed it. Same goes for regen items, cursed weapons, blessed weapons, grass, mana, spice, warding, etc.. The fact that you could farm/glitch 99 spices for infinite mana and just recast SC whenever you felt like it was plain ridiculous. These things completely trivialized any difficulty the game had to offer, and let's face it.. it's not any harder than Dark Souls already.


    From removed these items on purpose because they saw how easy it made the game and how players used them as a crutch. There are ways to cheese in DkS still, but nothing as glaringly obvious as was in DeS.


    Sorry for the rant but the whole idea of DeS being harder than DkS is laughable. DeS seemed tougher if you played it first, but people need to differentiate between nostalgic memories of frustration in their first hours of playing and the reality of how much of a head start they had in DkS. Of course it will feel easier, it's not rocket science. Throw someone into Demon's blind and they can proceed through the game without worry, they'll just die a lot learning the mechanics. Throw them into Dark and they can easily get lost and have no clue in where to go next, that's not even considering the mechanics issue.


    Neither game is particularly difficult once you understand them, but each one taken as a new experience without knowing the game Dark is the harder one to get started in. Don't get me wrong, I love DeS, it's just that there was a lot of stuff broken in that game that I do NOT want to see being copied in future ones.


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    Re: second chance

    Post by Yarxov on Mon Apr 16, 2012 1:44 am

    Uparkaam wrote:No, I wouldn't want SC back. Three ganking James Bonds? No thanks. I'd rather take on the Four Kings naked and unarmed.
    Challenge Accepted!
    ....
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    F it I give up.


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    Re: second chance

    Post by Forum Pirate on Mon Apr 16, 2012 1:58 am

    @vageta31

    If so much in the game is op then its more that int was under powered. and you're forgetting to mention the stormruler, firestorm combo that insta murdered everyone and the pushed tob instant casters.

    Int got the shaft in des no doubt but its more spell casting speed thats the problem, not that everything else is broken, all the regen and sc in the universe wouldn't save you from being 2shotted by a skilled instacast user. and sc takes time to cast, if you gave them the space to manage that its your fualt, a throwing knife would stuff it.

    I also never said it was harder, i implied it was better. A matter of opinion.


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    Re: second chance

    Post by Quarik on Mon Apr 16, 2012 2:32 am

    sparkly-twinkly-lizard wrote:ummm... heres a vid from demons where second chance was used alot... mind you the protagonist is uncommanly skilled...

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EYtD0UR3NT8

    The irony when "hard2kill" gets one-shotted. So do I understand that this dragon bone crush thing death bringer doom destroyer is the Zweihander of DeS?


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    Re: second chance

    Post by sparkly-twinkly-lizard on Mon Apr 16, 2012 2:44 am

    i guess but it was harder to obtain cause it was in an area ultimate bosses (BoC's predecessor the dragon god)room and could only be accessed under certain conditions. also that enchantment they used doubles a weapons ar physical damage, but there was no poise back then so big swords only benefit was their damage and ability to fling people acrossed a battle field.


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    Re: second chance

    Post by vageta31 on Mon Apr 16, 2012 2:47 am

    sparkly-twinkly-lizard wrote:i guess but it was harder to obtain cause it was in an area ultimate bosses (BoC's predecessor the dragon god)room and could only be accessed under certain conditions. also that enchantment they used doubles a weapons ar physical damage, but there was no poise back then so big swords only benefit was their damage and ability to fling people acrossed a battle field.


    Let us not forget hyper armor, poise's predecessor. Sorry I'm naked, but since I'm swinging this oversized weapon around you can't stop me even with a rapier in the eye!


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    Re: second chance

    Post by Forum Pirate on Mon Apr 16, 2012 2:55 am

    I'd argue that the gaxe is what the zwieh was. 2-4 hit kills, an irritatingly fast roll attack, essentialy tradeproof as they'll almost always win.

    The dgc was closer to the gc. big slow behemoth that will 1 shot 60% of the players and 2 shot everyone else if its built for properly.



    Realism has no place in a game where a skinny girl can swing a 50lb axe with one hand vageta


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    Re: second chance

    Post by vageta31 on Mon Apr 16, 2012 3:02 am

    Forum Pirate wrote:I'd argue that the gaxe is what the zwieh was. 2-4 hit kills, an irritatingly fast roll attack, essentialy tradeproof as they'll almost always win.

    The dgc was closer to the gc. big slow behemoth that will 1 shot 60% of the players and 2 shot everyone else if its built for properly.



    Realism has no place in a game where a skinny girl can swing a 50lb axe with one hand vageta


    I wasn't saying it's supposed to be real. Only that it was just another part of Demon's that was abused. Just like poise ended up being in Dark. Hopefully for the next game they figure out a better system. There were too many loopholes in both attempts.


    Being in full plate armor and swinging a large weapon at an opponent uninterrupted does have some merit. Physics come in to play and even if you hit the person it's not like they can stop swinging once they have momentum. Gravity also takes effect. On that note perhaps your own damage gets reduced if you take damage while swinging. That way it's somewhat realistic that your attack will continue, but obviously not with your full force. It should also only allow the initial attack to interrupt and stop the combo.


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    Re: second chance

    Post by Forum Pirate on Mon Apr 16, 2012 3:14 am

    Then they're useless. any fool can just punch you to kill your combo and bs you while your in the recovery animation. Hyper armor was what big weapons had. It has just as much merit as poise does, and i prefered hyper armor as its weapon specific and so hardly abuseable.

    I'd say the big/small weapons were far more balanced in des. Big weapons are slow, strong and have hyper armor, while small weapons don't hit hard but are very fast and combo well. they also allow dual weilding or shields to be used for versatility or blocking/parrying.


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    Re: second chance

    Post by billy_bayonet on Mon Apr 16, 2012 6:45 am

    i played Demons souls first, and it stayed harder then dark souls, couple days of dark souls gameplay and youd learn from your mistakes, whereas demons souls more of a learning curve, i mean flamelurker was my favourite bossfight, and did anyone here every do false king on NG+++
    theres easily a way of getting round second chance abusers if it was there make it so it had one cast and any other buff effects were unavailable while it was in effect including those from rings/clothes
    could make things very interesting IMO


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    Re: second chance

    Post by Yarxov on Mon Apr 16, 2012 11:40 pm

    The DBC has no equal, maybe the DGM, but the DBC is much harder to obtain still.
    The greataxe was in Both DeS and DkS
    As was the Zwei.


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    Re: second chance

    Post by Forum Pirate on Tue Apr 17, 2012 4:11 am

    Yes but i was talking playsyle type not actual weapon.

    Ie curse weapon is the power within of demons but the bkga is the mirdon hammer of dark.

    make sense?


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    Re: second chance

    Post by billy_bayonet on Tue Apr 17, 2012 4:29 am

    Blue blood sword......nuff said


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    Re: second chance

    Post by Yarxov on Tue Apr 17, 2012 11:12 pm

    Didn't the Mirdan Hammer have the same set up as the Halberd in DeS and DkS?


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    Re: second chance

    Post by Forum Pirate on Wed Apr 18, 2012 3:23 am

    no.


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    Re: second chance

    Post by Yarxov on Wed Apr 18, 2012 10:38 am

    That's a very intense 'no.' I'm curious now.


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    Re: second chance

    Post by Yukon on Wed Apr 18, 2012 10:45 am

    Miridian hammer had a pretty confusing hit box, but I don't think I would compare it to BKGA, I never actually picked it up and used it, I only got my butt handed to me a few times by it.

    In animation they are very different, maybe pirate means in practice? But I always found the BKGA moveset to be very predictable and avoidable, its one of the only weapons I can parry regularly in pvp. haha. Perhaps the comparison is in reach? both weapons had misleading reach IMO

    I have a faith build who uses Second chance, I never was big in demons souls PVP, I was really bad at it. I only started getting deeper into pvp after dark souls. But is SC look down upon in Demons PVP? I always used it even when dueling. But I typically didn't use grass in duels since it extended the battle too much... and by the end of the game I stock glitched myself 99 grass to do co-op with friends. So it just didn't seem fair to use that, I'm a dirty cheater. haha.
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    Re: second chance

    Post by Serious_Much on Wed Apr 18, 2012 11:45 am

    This just put me in the mood for demon's souls.

    Seeya big grin


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    Re: second chance

    Post by Forum Pirate on Wed Apr 18, 2012 12:40 pm

    No meaning what yukon said. In practice the hammer and the bkga are very similar, long reach, fast swings, misleading hitboxes and eat stamina if their blocked. the l- something, whatever its called, takes alot more than the mindless r1 spam both the bkga and hammer are famous for encouraging.

    the hammer had the same moveset as the halberd in des if thats what you ment but the fact that it does blunt damage ment it destroyed guards and hit harder. The new "noob stick" is the bkga as it has similarly low skill requirements to kill the majority of the players with it.


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    Re: second chance

    Post by Oniramkenobi on Wed Apr 18, 2012 7:49 pm

    Second Chance is the only thing i miss from Demons .

    It made Fights so much more fun AND it made you able to practice and/or have multiple battles without interruption . It also prevents 1Hit kills which is a huge issue in Dark souls from my point of view .

    Yes it IS easylie abused . But unfair fights are no fun either way .

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