Test My Lore

I think the doll is needed to get into the painting because something Priscilla loves needs to be near the painting in order to open. Priscilla wants the doll, it's in your backpack. You and your backpack are coming in with the doll. So, the person that got in must have been someone Priscilla loved/wanted in... According to my theory. The painting WAS created by the Gods in order to keep out stuff the Gods didn't want in their world haha! Hmmm, Idk much about "Oscar" and Tarkus, but is it possible they were perhaps beings that the Gods wanted out of their world? Perhaps Tarkus was banished, but he's so freaking badass, he got out, then solo'd a boss for fun! YEAH! Haha! Just pure speculation-fun.

I think so too, Painted World is like a prison. You'll see cages around the graveyard. For transporting prisoners / abominations (created by Seath???).

I think it was painted by the person it's named after. I forget the name. 'Panted world of [Name]" That name. Right there. No idea who he is.

Ariamis

Yeah. That guy. Is it a guy? Or perhaps a land? Maybe the painter panted Ariamis with his magic paintbrush, and whatever he paints gets trapped in his panting. Hmm? No idea. Maybe if we look up the root words of Ariamis, we'll find that it means "banished" or something like that. Painted World of the Banished. Makes sense. I'm going to change my signature so I don't have to say "Fun speculation." every time I post haha!

When she kills the player

• Why could thou not let us be?
  Didst thou not see why Ariamis created this world?
  

Edit: That's what Priscilla says when she kills you.

Ya. You'd know. You're the leader of a whole guild dedicated to Priscilla haha! I'd join a guild dedicated to The Fair Lady, but I accidentally killed her with my newly found Chaos Firestorm. Completely forgot she was near... Haha!

So, Ariamis was a person. Any idea who he/she is?!

Maybe he/she was the great artist of the Age of Fire. If you go to one of the rooms of Anor Londo you'll see a lot of paintings including portraits and locations. Me and skarekrow did a bit of research of these paintings, and I found that the art style of the portraits are similar to the portraits painted by Rembrandt.
So it can be said Ariamis was a great painter and the Gods permitted him to live in Anor Londo (maybe). Also if you check the Painting Guardian set the description says that they guarded Ariamis' Great Paintings for years, but the reason for it was lost from memory.

The garb of the guardians would suggest they were either Seath's or Priscilla's due to the colour. The something she loved idea works since if theres only one way to get in how have people been dumping prisoners in there for years. I dont think the prison is Gwyns prison. I think its a hiding spot. Like the ruins of Oz Seath puts his treasures in their to hide, however unlike the forest he put his weapons against the gods in there. Then when he attacked the gods he had an army hidden within their walls.

I mentioned somewhere that the words "Drawn In" regarding to Priscilla seem to indicate how she got in there. Might even be this thread.....I'm losing track. I still think her desire to find comfort allowed her to access the painting but maybe my other theory is more accurate. She asked Ariamis to draw her into the painting literally which of course put her in the world. Looks like he forgot to paint her doll into the picture, and maybe this link to Priscilla left the "portal" open enough for the finder of the doll to get in. That could explain why Ariamis was kept in Anor Londo. He had the power to draw malcontents away.

Hmm we are forgetting that a LOT of Berenike Knights made it into the painting and never got out. How did they get there?

I figured this discussion was done lol I should've came back sooner but oh well.

skarekrow13 wrote:I haven't gotten into the real Gwynevere theories yet, but the illusion one I have. Surprised no one mentioned that Gwyndolin's voice is the one that threatens you when you attack the illusion, not Gwynevere's. Also, not sure if you've had the courage to brave Emergence's linking lore thread but I did a couple runs into Anor Londo to look at paintings. There's a bedroom that I strongly believe was Gwyndolin's (as there seem to be paintings of him in it). There's one painting that's out of place style wise. It's of Gwynevere and looks pretty much exactly like the illusion. Kind of a circular thing. I think it's Gwyndolin's room because of the paintings and he created the illusion is backed by the paintings as well. Of course it's still possible it's her illusion and not his but everything I've found leads me to believe he made it as he couldn't bear the loss of his sister.

This theory is disproved by killing Gwyndolin. Gwynevere does not die with him.

So you're saying that the game has no evidence that an entity's magic can exist after their demise? Or that a construct must go away once the creator dies?

So then.....Logan's catalyst loses power after you kill him....Havel's miracle disappears from in game after you kill him and his ring and shield lose all power....none of the boss souls have any effect or use whatsoever.......the dragon weapons don't have any extra power besides swinging them after the death of their respective originator.....all of the demons in the game become benign after the death of the bed of chaos....

While some magic dissipates with it's owner (necromancers' ability to infinitely revive skeleton's for example) that's very flawed "proof." The world is full of magic and mechanisms that are present long after the creator perished. Gwyndolin wanted his sister's legacy to last. Why wouldn't he make the illusion as permanent as possible?

skarekrow13 wrote:So you're saying that the game has no evidence that an entity's magic can exist after their demise? Or that a construct must go away once the creator dies?

So then.....Logan's catalyst loses power after you kill him....Havel's miracle disappears from in game after you kill him and his ring and shield lose all power....none of the boss souls have any effect or use whatsoever.......the dragon weapons don't have any extra power besides swinging them after the death of their respective originator.....all of the demons in the game become benign after the death of the bed of chaos....

All of these examples are tangible. This meaning that each example is an object most possibly enchanted or imbued with a similar property(not the same) as it's originator. This effectively means your examples failed to illustrate how magic exists without its progenitor. There is nothing that ties Gwynevere to being that of Gwyndolin's creation except for the fact that he gets mad at you for "tarnishing the Godmother's Image." it's very important to look at this statement from the point of view of a son whom was declared unfit to be a normal edition to the family. He likely has a deep adoration for his family.

Good point there skarekrow. Because after defeating Gwyndolin for the first time before even defeating O&S, I thought WTF???? Why Gwynevere still alive???? I think you are right. Gwynevere (the illusion) is like the source of all other illusions of Anor Londo (Giants, Silver Knights), although that source of illusions was created by Gwyndolin. Strong Oolacile magics here huh.

Souls aren't any more tangible than the illusion. The boss souls are used to modify things after the death of the creature it came from. So that means that a powerful being's magic/will/spirit/power/whatever word or phrase you like can continue on after their demise. Ghosts are also proof of the intangible living after the progenitor's death. Wyrm adds my next piece nicely......the illusion is also tangible anyway. You seem to neglect that there's a lot in Anor Londo tied to Gwynevere's illusion that are very tangible parts of this facade. If you're not careful those "intangible" giants might take your head off. I think for discussion sake the term "illusion" is a poor choice as it implies ethereal which is obviously not the case. I purposely included enchanted items as well the souls for a reason as well. Getting back to the last point, you seem to imply that Gwynevere herself is the magic. Nothing more than a fake picture, like a hologram. However, this hologram is capable of either a) handing you an item (the lordvessel) or b) tricking you into thinking it did. As no one in the game who gives or sells you an item actually has an animation to hand it to you they're both strong possibilities. I used the term "construct" in my earlier argument and used the stone knights as an example. A physical being enchanted to perform a given task. In their case defense of the forest. Like the giants that actually fight you, the sun that actually provides light and so on.....Gwynevere seems to be similar in that she is a constructed "thing" that is set for a purpose. There's no proof that Gyndolin made this entire construct to be sure. Just like there's no proof about most things in the game. However, as was my original intent.....there is evidence that he did. In my experiences and travels I haven't found evidence of Gwynevere making these constructs that's anywhere near as compelling as the evidence to support Gwyndolin.

I believe the creators make the atmosphere and put the clues there not to trick us, but to at least point us in the right direction. 'Tis why I believe Solaire is the God of War. I believe Gwynovere ran off and escaped Anor Londo with her husband, because the clues point us in that direction. The developers want us to take the clues they give us and draw our own conclusions. I think that if you believe that some clues are true and others are tricks, why ever believe any clues are true? Ever?

The fact that the entire place is tangible defeats the idea that the giants, knights, and other aspects of Anor Londo are illusions. In fact, there is nothing separating the illusions of the silver knights to the black knights as a reality in the kiln. For that matter, what makes gwynevere's death an illusion over Gwyn's, or the 4 kings even? Are we just going to arbitrarily place blame on a supposed ingenious out-casted tentacle prissy boy that is apparently capable of three times the amount of magical power than any of his siblings because you the player disgraced his home? If he can manipulate all these illusions why didn't he just give himself a face lift? There is just as much evidence to the claim as there is evidence against it. this was my intent.


As for the question about clues. Clues can be misinterpreted often. Clues to Solaire being the God of War are also contradicted by other clues that point to an extinct first born. It is all up to the player to interpret many of the clues, but some things are just dead give aways. Like the principle of "a dead God leaves no resonance of its magic" after its demise. Unless, of course, that magic has been bound to an object. In which, the property of said magic is inherently altered.

I don't think it's" arbitrary" to think 'dolin is responsible. Also, the term "illusion" is the popular one but not what I'm actually saying I think is going on. I'm not sure where you're drawing information on a comparison of power from. Gwynevere is supposedly gone, so who knows what she can do. The God of War/Firstborn appears to have been stripped of Power. Gwyn's power is only a tiny shred of what it once was but going from evidence: He fueled the power of all four knights, all four kings, gave some to Seath etc. etc. so evidence suggests he started off as pretty crazy powerful. Just because 'dolin is a little bit prissy doesn't mean he is weak. A few giants and a sexy fake sister under a light bulb doesn't suggest three times more powerful than other family members to me. He actually didn't add much. The Silver Knights are all there in darkness too, as is the titanite Demon.

I'm not trying to prove the Gwyndolin theory is "right" since only From knows that and they're pretty tight lipped and yours and Broski's points are spot on. There's lot of clues (jinkies) but they're up for interpretation. I probably am coming off as a little caustic at this point but it seems like you're pigeonholing a lot of other people's thoughts into "impossibilities" while raising your evidence as proof despite sound reasoning on both sides of the argument. Note that your thoughts were never dismissed as impossible or "disproved" as you said by anyone else. Personal experience and discovered evidence were brought to your thread for further discussion.

Yeah, I think I am done discussing this topic. It is clear that anything I say will be judged and met with pretentious "holier than thou" badgering. Feel free to finish up the speculation, some of the thoughts on Priscilla were unique and interesting.

Blade of The Sun wrote:Yeah, I think I am done discussing this topic. It is clear that anything I say will be judged and met with pretentious "holier than thou" badgering. Feel free to finish up the speculation, some of the thoughts on Priscilla were unique and interesting.

I'm sporry but this statement is very "I lost this argument but wont admit it". Skare's points were well reasoned and easily believable. The fact is that Gwyndolin is the most likely candidate for the illusion creator. Illusion is a poor choice of words though. Construct, a being given shape by magic, is much better to use. Gwynevere is a construct of magic, magical energy given form. Its possible that over time without the creator she would dissipate but you cannot assume that the construct would die with the creator.

DoughGuy wrote:

Blade of The Sun wrote:Yeah, I think I am done discussing this topic. It is clear that anything I say will be judged and met with pretentious "holier than thou" badgering. Feel free to finish up the speculation, some of the thoughts on Priscilla were unique and interesting.

I'm sporry but this statement is very "I lost this argument but wont admit it". Skare's points were well reasoned and easily believable.

Believe what you want, but the fact is When people start assuming prejudices on others I quit talking.

I'm sorry but what prejudices are being assumed? All I saw was you and Skare arguing.