Test My Lore

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    Test My Lore

    Post by Blade of The Sun on Sun Apr 15, 2012 5:56 am

    Okay so, I have this theory that I've come to see as completely backwards of most peoples theories on the lore. I can't think of every loop hole I need to go through to be able to explain why I think the way I do so I am asking you guys to question me (politely please) on the lore.

    My theory goes like this.

    Gwyn is dark/undead now. Gwyndolin and Gwynevere are not in league with each other. Gwyndolin is a black sheep of the family just trying to get his dad's approval. Gwynevere wants you to succeed her father and bring the sunlight back. Solaire is not the firstborn, but worships him.

    Now shoot.


    Last edited by Blade of The Sun on Sun Apr 15, 2012 6:16 am; edited 1 time in total


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    It then feels it can no longer take their pains without the power to end them.
    and so, it takes on a demon soul, and becomes not a fair and pure maiden, but a lost executioner who finds peace in helping the pained pass on from this life.
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    Re: Test My Lore

    Post by WyrmHero on Sun Apr 15, 2012 6:01 am

    I don't understand why Gwynevere and Gwyndolin aren't in league with each other. Other than that, I agree with everything you say.


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    Re: Test My Lore

    Post by Tolvo on Sun Apr 15, 2012 6:06 am

    Sounds about right, though something about Gwynevere in case you don't know.

    Spoiler:
    She's not in Anor Londo, that's an illusion set up by Gwyndolin.

    Other than that, those are typical views of people here, though some do believe Solaire is the First born, it's still really open. I personally believe it is Andre.

    Maybe we should form Churches of the First Born, and have many sects on who we believe it is.

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    Re: Test My Lore

    Post by WyrmHero on Sun Apr 15, 2012 6:12 am

    I believe is Andre too. I forgot Biorr fell asleep too in Demon's, just like Seigmeyer. He has some characteristics of Prince Ostrava (always in some kind of trouble). I don't know, I prefer Andre, he us just too different from the rest. Tall, bereft of the power of combat (using caestus) extensive knowledge of arms and divine weapons. It has to be him.


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    Re: Test My Lore

    Post by Blade of The Sun on Sun Apr 15, 2012 6:13 am

    Tolvo wrote:Sounds about right, though something about Gwynevere in case you don't know.

    Spoiler:
    She's not in Anor Londo, that's an illusion set up by Gwyndolin.

    Other than that, those are typical views of people here, though some do believe Solaire is the First born, it's still really open. I personally believe it is Andre.

    Maybe we should form Churches of the First Born, and have many sects on who we believe it is.



    Or so we think...

    Spoiler:
    She could have setup an illusion herself because she is also a God.

    This would explain why we have to fight O&S and why Gwyndolin setup the darkmoon blades.

    Additionally, if Gwynevere is an illusion than killing Gwyndolin should remove the illusion. She doesn't disappear though.


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    A soul, pure and true.
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    It walks among the pained, unable to help their wretched souls as they suffer on.
    It finds solace in the fact that it is at least trying.
    It then feels it can no longer take their pains without the power to end them.
    and so, it takes on a demon soul, and becomes not a fair and pure maiden, but a lost executioner who finds peace in helping the pained pass on from this life.
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    Re: Test My Lore

    Post by Tolvo on Sun Apr 15, 2012 6:14 am

    Also in interviews it was revealed Andre was going to be a descendant of Gwyn, who would be very important but they had to cut the content. So, that could easily mean he is the god of war.
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    Re: Test My Lore

    Post by Tolvo on Sun Apr 15, 2012 6:16 am

    Spoiler:
    Why would she set up the illusion if Seath has been been kidnapping her people, if she had left to supposedly marry the flame god, and if her brother is a master of illusions and magic while she does healing miracles?
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    Re: Test My Lore

    Post by Blade of The Sun on Sun Apr 15, 2012 6:28 am

    Tolvo wrote:
    Spoiler:
    Why would she set up the illusion if Seath has been been kidnapping her people, if she had left to supposedly marry the flame god, and if her brother is a master of illusions and magic while she does healing miracles?

    Spoiler:
    Her illusion was created for the sole purpose of handing the lord vessel to the chosen undead. I feel like she is much more wise, and because of this it makes sense for her to leave and wait for the sunlight to return(aka the age of fire). Seathe stealing people? I thought they were offered into his service for his assistance in challenging the dragons. The way I see it, Gwynever is a much stronger God than Gwyndolin and therefore capable of much more powerful and possibly diverse spells.


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    It enters the valley of corruption, with nothing but faith and a freind.
    It walks among the pained, unable to help their wretched souls as they suffer on.
    It finds solace in the fact that it is at least trying.
    It then feels it can no longer take their pains without the power to end them.
    and so, it takes on a demon soul, and becomes not a fair and pure maiden, but a lost executioner who finds peace in helping the pained pass on from this life.
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    Re: Test My Lore

    Post by Tolvo on Sun Apr 15, 2012 6:30 am

    The issue is just nothing really leads in that direction, I'm not saying it's possible, but just nothing leads that way. Also they were kidnapped, on the channeller set it mentions that they kidnap women for seath, at least two of witch are weeping females who formerly were Gwynevere's servants.
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    Re: Test My Lore

    Post by Blade of The Sun on Sun Apr 15, 2012 6:43 am

    Spoiler:
    Robe of the Channelers, sorcerers that serve
    Seath the Scaleless. Even after the onset of
    Seath's madness, the "snatchers" as they
    were often called, ventured to far lands to
    find suitable human specimens.

    I think this puts seath's actions into question. It mentions his madness. Other than that I was under the impression that Lord Gwyn allowed Seath to take humans.

    What tells us the Channeller's captured the maidens again?


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    A soul, pure and true.
    It enters the valley of corruption, with nothing but faith and a freind.
    It walks among the pained, unable to help their wretched souls as they suffer on.
    It finds solace in the fact that it is at least trying.
    It then feels it can no longer take their pains without the power to end them.
    and so, it takes on a demon soul, and becomes not a fair and pure maiden, but a lost executioner who finds peace in helping the pained pass on from this life.
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    Re: Test My Lore

    Post by Tolvo on Sun Apr 15, 2012 6:46 am

    They are found in Seath's control, and the Channellers work for him. I figure that he started doing this After Gwyn left for the Kiln really, kind of like "Hey, watch the house while we're gone." Then seath had the wildest party he can think of, as well there is a Channeller in the church until you kill it, and Reah disappears from the church and reappears in the Duke's. I imagine he was still doing some experiments behind Gwyn's back, but it just seems like he was waiting to start working his plots and ideas of betrayal, I mean really he "Betrayed is own Kind," what the hell does Gwyn expect Seath to do? Also as mentioned two of the Suid Head creatures in the Duke's carry miracles of Gwynevere, and have feminine voices and cry.
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    Re: Test My Lore

    Post by WyrmHero on Sun Apr 15, 2012 6:47 am

    So Seath was trying to create Nagas, but for what purpose???? Build his own army? For what the faq????


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    Re: Test My Lore

    Post by Tolvo on Sun Apr 15, 2012 6:48 am

    I think those were more so failed experiments, though something interesting. Look at Gwyndolin's feat the next time you get a chance to.
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    Re: Test My Lore

    Post by WyrmHero on Sun Apr 15, 2012 6:49 am

    What power did Gwyndolin gained from being a Naga????


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    Re: Test My Lore

    Post by Tolvo on Sun Apr 15, 2012 6:50 am

    I'm wondering if maybe it is where his magical affinity stems from in some manner, but again I'm not sure at that point. Acidic probably has a better idea.
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    Re: Test My Lore

    Post by Blade of The Sun on Sun Apr 15, 2012 6:56 am

    I guess what I am getting at is that it is never revealed if the channeler's specifically targeted the maidens and they may have ventured to the archives on their own.

    The lore on Gwyndolin states that he was especially fond of the moon. I guess if Faith represents itself through sunlight than Intelligence, being its counterpart would be the moon.


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    It walks among the pained, unable to help their wretched souls as they suffer on.
    It finds solace in the fact that it is at least trying.
    It then feels it can no longer take their pains without the power to end them.
    and so, it takes on a demon soul, and becomes not a fair and pure maiden, but a lost executioner who finds peace in helping the pained pass on from this life.
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    Re: Test My Lore

    Post by Tolvo on Sun Apr 15, 2012 6:59 am

    He might just be targetting faith users, which if there were maidens from Gwynevere around would definitely be faith users. Gwyndolin is a faith user, but he casts magic as sort of a conversion rather than intelligence. Maybe it is a means of transforming where the magic comes from, explaining why he is such a powerful mage?
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    Re: Test My Lore

    Post by WyrmHero on Sun Apr 15, 2012 7:00 am

    Intelligence/moon/dark miracle are those of Velka, although you need faith to learn them, but her talisman scales with intelligence, because she was a Witch-Goddess.


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    Re: Test My Lore

    Post by WyrmHero on Sun Apr 15, 2012 7:03 am

    Velka and Seath must have done something to that poor child. I think Velka went mad as well.


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    Re: Test My Lore

    Post by WyrmHero on Sun Apr 15, 2012 7:05 am

    I hope more lore from her comes in the DLC, we have so many theories about her.


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    Re: Test My Lore

    Post by DoughGuy on Sun Apr 15, 2012 7:32 am

    She is a rogue goddess. Its possible she went mad and tried to help Seath kill the other gods.


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    Re: Test My Lore

    Post by skarekrow13 on Mon Apr 16, 2012 10:52 am

    I haven't gotten into the real Gwynevere theories yet, but the illusion one I have. Surprised no one mentioned that Gwyndolin's voice is the one that threatens you when you attack the illusion, not Gwynevere's. Also, not sure if you've had the courage to brave Emergence's linking lore thread but I did a couple runs into Anor Londo to look at paintings. There's a bedroom that I strongly believe was Gwyndolin's (as there seem to be paintings of him in it). There's one painting that's out of place style wise. It's of Gwynevere and looks pretty much exactly like the illusion. Kind of a circular thing. I think it's Gwyndolin's room because of the paintings and he created the illusion is backed by the paintings as well. Of course it's still possible it's her illusion and not his but everything I've found leads me to believe he made it as he couldn't bear the loss of his sister.

    Tolvo, why does no one ever discuss his "feet." What the heck is up with them? I kind of felt it was similar to bed of chaos in that he got caught up in something that mutated him but recently thought up this insanity......ready....here we go......

    Why was Gwyndolin raised as a daughter? The game is dark but incest and child abuse might be too dark of concepts even for this game. That's about the only reason psychologically speaking that makes sense (sadly there are lots of real life cases of this). Was the real reason to hide his deformity? Like the black covering on Rudolph's nose, perhaps he was made to wear dresses to hide his true lower body. Once you piss him off he's more than willing to show them off (Queelag's legs are still nicer however)

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    Re: Test My Lore

    Post by Tolvo on Mon Apr 16, 2012 2:25 pm

    Skare, just a heads up. Look at Gwyndolin's feet, then look at the Squid heads in the Duke's Archives in the jail area. I think you might make some connections.
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    Re: Test My Lore

    Post by skarekrow13 on Mon Apr 16, 2012 2:46 pm

    Yeah, I knew that's where you were going with that one. Which one of us is gonna say it? The possible best reason Gwyn didn't raise Gwyndolin like a son and possible heir to the throne.......

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    Re: Test My Lore

    Post by Tolvo on Mon Apr 16, 2012 2:50 pm

    Is because he didn't wear tights obviously.

    Also just a heads up to make things even weirder, because of his voice and appearance he was likely a Eunuch, this game is really *** up isn't it?

    As I've said I think elsewhere or maybe even in this thread, this might actually be the reason he is such a powerful mage while relying on Faith. As you know Seath has been creating abominations with similar physical make ups, what do they have in common? He appears to capture faith users, especially women more than likely because of Gwynevere's servants mostly being female faith users. So, maybe he was an experiment gone right done by Seath.

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