backstabbs and some ways of countering them

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    backstabbs and some ways of countering them

    Post by Rin on Sat Apr 07, 2012 8:59 am

    as most of you lot do pvp u must by know have been killed by a backstabber you know the player that gets close to u locks on n starts goin round till they get a chance to bs u...

    i dont know if you have a method of preventing that but hears my when they run at your side what you do is copy them by that i mean u run to the side but as you are about to meet you take step back and you bs him instead...well im not wery good at explaining as now when i invade or get invaded by some1 using the backstabbing tactic and see em run to my side i just know wt to do but if you master this backstabbs like that will be easly countered...

    i also wish to know your ways of preventing them pesky backstabbers cheers


    Last edited by Rin on Sat Apr 07, 2012 9:45 am; edited 1 time in total


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    Re: backstabbs and some ways of countering them

    Post by Tolvo on Sat Apr 07, 2012 9:05 am

    I'll do my long post later, just lost all of my tips on countering backstabs to an error, so I'm going to go play some Dark Souls and calm down in the forest.

    But when I come back, I'll post what I know about countering backstabs, involving the Pivot Reverse Anti-Chain BS Parry Riposte, and some other tricks I've learned. If Yesuurd gets here before then though I'm pretty sure he knows how to do it as well.
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    Re: backstabbs and some ways of countering them

    Post by Rin on Sat Apr 07, 2012 9:09 am

    cool... well i know a lot more but u know we dont want em to learn all our trick's XD Bow


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    Re: backstabbs and some ways of countering them

    Post by Tolvo on Sat Apr 07, 2012 9:10 am

    Oh of course, you never play poker with all your cards on the table...I don't think, that metaphor might be a bit off, it's been ages since I last played poker.
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    Re: backstabbs and some ways of countering them

    Post by Rin on Sat Apr 07, 2012 9:13 am

    yeh i know wt u mean i still play it on RDR sumtimes but its not same as real cards


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    Re: backstabbs and some ways of countering them

    Post by Darkson on Sat Apr 07, 2012 9:22 am

    You need real people for real poker in my oppinion happy

    (Btw good morning Tolvo!) silly I hope you tell us (me) your tricks soon!

    One thing I do to prevet them from backstabbing is locking off and turning around 180. But sooner or later they will either WoG/combust me or the lag is just so bad....


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    Re: backstabbs and some ways of countering them

    Post by vageta31 on Sat Apr 07, 2012 9:24 am

    If you want to prevent a backstab then the simplest way is to back up. If you back peddle then they can't reach your back even if they sprint. What you described was a counter backstab and all good players know how to do it and will punish anyone who makes an obvious attempt to strafe behind them.


    Those 2 methods alone will prevent the majority of backstabs in pvp. Of course if you get backstabbed due to healing, casting a spell, running away or any other punishable action then the prevention is... don't do it.


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    Re: backstabbs and some ways of countering them

    Post by Tolvo on Sat Apr 07, 2012 9:25 am

    Vageta, that's what my long post said basically, but in depth haha. Probably so much in depth people would get lost, so short and to the point, your post is probably more helpful than my long one would have been haha. Boy do I feel the fool. sad
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    Re: backstabbs and some ways of countering them

    Post by Rin on Sat Apr 07, 2012 9:30 am

    tolvo dont lisen yo him n tell us all yr secrets silly


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    Re: backstabbs and some ways of countering them

    Post by Darkson on Sat Apr 07, 2012 9:30 am

    Tolvo, I would be grateful if I you could give a long in depth description on how to counter backstab! happy

    Sometimes I managed to counter backstab, but I don't know exactly how I did it, and there is no certain technique I was using...


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    Re: backstabbs and some ways of countering them

    Post by Tolvo on Sat Apr 07, 2012 9:33 am

    Well I can say the Reverse one right now, this is a counter to Chain BS. Alright, you know how as you rise they are waiting at your back to R1 and BS you for the chain? alright, unlock, and make your character face them, and hit L2 to parry the second you can, they will strike, get parried, and suddenly you can riposte them. Bam, the Pivot Anti Chain BS Parry Riposte trick. Use this all the time against farmers in the forest, but if there are multiple people surrounding you it is better to roll into the one going for the chain, then rolling past them. That is the safer trick. This involves unlocking and forcing your character to face them and rolling into their body, making you dodge their attack and force your back away from them. If you know what you're doing, you can roll right past them and pivot BS as they swing if they are using a large enough weapon.

    Just a few simple tricks I've picked up in the forest, they take some practice to use effectively. I might suggest setting up a duel with a friend and using base weapons to practice on one another.
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    Re: backstabbs and some ways of countering them

    Post by Rin on Sat Apr 07, 2012 9:37 am

    do tell more tongue


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    Re: backstabbs and some ways of countering them

    Post by vageta31 on Sat Apr 07, 2012 9:40 am

    Tolvo wrote:Vageta, that's what my long post said basically, but in depth haha. Probably so much in depth people would get lost, so short and to the point, your post is probably more helpful than my long one would have been haha. Boy do I feel the fool. sad


    Sometimes the simplest explanation is the easiest to get across. You obviously could go in a bit more depth on the subject, but people tend to figure it out on their own once they get the basic idea.


    The sad part is it's such simple solution yet it escapes so many. Unless there's some hellacious lag going on, you simply cannot backstab someone who is backing away from you. No matter how much you try to strafe or dash at them it's just plain impossible. If they attempt to unlock and pivot it's easy to simply adjust your angle to keep moving away. And even better those that try completely open themselves up to be countered as they stubbornly try to attempt it.


    In a sense, I'm a backstab counter fisher. I don't usually go for backstabs, I just fish for them to try it and punish the attempt. happy


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    Re: backstabbs and some ways of countering them

    Post by Tolvo on Sat Apr 07, 2012 9:44 am

    Ah yes, another thing. If in hand you do not have an item that can parry, you can switch to one. While performing a BS, you can't change your equipment, but while being BS'ed you can. So if in your left hand is a talisman, you can switch it to a Target Shield if you manage your inventory, and switch around and suddenly parry them with the idea. As well if you want to keep your talisman or Pyro glove and have Force, WotG, Combustion, or Great Combustion, there is the kick trick. As you rise you face them, and kick. You'll stagger them, leaving them wide open for a spell or strike. With force you can actually extra stagger them, then pivot BS them. There are so many counters to Chain BS it's really funny actually.
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    Re: backstabbs and some ways of countering them

    Post by Darkson on Sat Apr 07, 2012 9:48 am

    Actually, I never had a problem with chain- or spawn-backstabbers, I always managed to roll away (and I've invaded a lot of farmes now). Really, never ever in all of the time I was pvping I got chain backstabbed! But of course that would be really satisfying if I could pull that "counter" parry off, and much more effective it would be...


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    Re: backstabbs and some ways of countering them

    Post by Darkson on Sat Apr 07, 2012 9:49 am

    vageta31 wrote:...

    You obviously could go in a bit more depth on the subject, but people tend to figure it out on their own once they get the basic idea.

    ...

    Actually, no. silly


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    Re: backstabbs and some ways of countering them

    Post by Rin on Sat Apr 07, 2012 9:54 am

    vageta31 wrote:
    Tolvo wrote:Vageta, that's what my long post said basically, but in depth haha. Probably so much in depth people would get lost, so short and to the point, your post is probably more helpful than my long one would have been haha. Boy do I feel the fool. sad


    Sometimes the simplest explanation is the easiest to get across. You obviously could go in a bit more depth on the subject, but people tend to figure it out on their own once they get the basic idea.


    The sad part is it's such simple solution yet it escapes so many. Unless there's some hellacious lag going on, you simply cannot backstab someone who is backing away from you. No matter how much you try to strafe or dash at them it's just plain impossible. If they attempt to unlock and pivot it's easy to simply adjust your angle to keep moving away. And even better those that try completely open themselves up to be countered as they stubbornly try to attempt it.


    In a sense, I'm a backstab counter fisher. I don't usually go for backstabs, I just fish for them to try it and punish the attempt. happy

    lol i could say im one too exept in 2v1 and 3v1 k go for my 1v2 chain bs technique or thats the name i gave it what i do is bs the plantom and most of the time the host will keep close or estus so i then bs the host n then the phantom till they die its funny to do its like chain bs but swiching the target after evary bs n coz of the bs window i cant be hit


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    Re: backstabbs and some ways of countering them

    Post by vageta31 on Sat Apr 07, 2012 9:54 am

    Sometimes it's difficult to explain certain mechanics without a video. There are a few counters in this one that illustrate the basic idea.


    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kx2pMxNF-dE


    In the first fight watch when the guy gets low health and tries to go for a backstab. I simply back up and he can't get to me. I didn't BS him since I wanted to just duel him straight up but he left me a huge opening.


    The fight with the Murakumo wielding sunbro is a good example of a counter. The instant I see his body shift and begin to strafe I simply step sideways and end up behind him. Notice how he still seems to be locked on to where I was a second before that.


    There are a few more instances mixed in, and even a triple backstab where they kept standing behind me while I was in the animation and then I'd roll backwards and stab them instead. At first glance it may seem that I'm the one aggressively backstabbing, but if you pay attention you'll notice they almost always shift their bodies before I make my move. Meaning they had a backstab in mind but I had other thoughts about it.


    The final fight in the video is probably the most exaggerated example of how to counter a strafer. Most guys aren't quite this obvious about it, but after doing almost an entire circle around me I decided I'd had enough. Lots of parries in the video as well for those that need help with the lag timing.


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    Re: backstabbs and some ways of countering them

    Post by Guest on Sat Apr 07, 2012 9:56 am

    What I find funny are people who walk right up to you & start to randomly parry even if you don't attack. As if they're hoping to get lucky with a random parry to OHKO opponents. I stood in front of them with shield down watching as they'd constantly use parry. Then when they finally tried to attack I parried it & ripotse.


    Last edited by Oo1Zer0 on Sat Apr 07, 2012 9:59 am; edited 1 time in total
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    Re: backstabbs and some ways of countering them

    Post by Tolvo on Sat Apr 07, 2012 9:57 am

    And when you see a person parry spamming, you strafe around and BS them to let them know, that just isn't going to work haha.
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    Re: backstabbs and some ways of countering them

    Post by Rin on Sat Apr 07, 2012 9:59 am

    vageta31 wrote:Sometimes it's difficult to explain certain mechanics without a video. There are a few counters in this one that illustrate the basic idea.


    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kx2pMxNF-dE


    In the first fight watch when the guy gets low health and tries to go for a backstab. I simply back up and he can't get to me. I didn't BS him since I wanted to just duel him straight up but he left me a huge opening.


    The fight with the Murakumo wielding sunbro is a good example of a counter. The instant I see his body shift and begin to strafe I simply step sideways and end up behind him. Notice how he still seems to be locked on to where I was a second before that.


    There are a few more instances mixed in, and even a triple backstab where they kept standing behind me while I was in the animation and then I'd roll backwards and stab them instead. At first glance it may seem that I'm the one aggressively backstabbing, but if you pay attention you'll notice they almost always shift their bodies before I make my move. Meaning they had a backstab in mind but I had other thoughts about it.


    The final fight in the video is probably the most exaggerated example of how to counter a strafer. Most guys aren't quite this obvious about it, but after doing almost an entire circle around me I decided I'd had enough. Lots of parries in the video as well for those that need help with the lag timing.
    dude when i see u fight its like watching myself use an escot also ist red not blue


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    Re: backstabbs and some ways of countering them

    Post by Darkson on Sat Apr 07, 2012 10:06 am

    "...also ist red..."? Rin, are you German? silly Sry.


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    Re: backstabbs and some ways of countering them

    Post by Rin on Sat Apr 07, 2012 10:09 am

    well not exactly :roll: only a 1/4


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    Re: backstabbs and some ways of countering them

    Post by Darkson on Sat Apr 07, 2012 10:31 am

    Rin wrote:well not exactly :roll: only a 1/4

    For real?

    vageta31 wrote:Sometimes it's difficult to explain certain mechanics without a video. There are a few counters in this one that illustrate the basic idea.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kx2pMxNF-dE

    ...

    I really enjoyed your video! 1:30 - 1:47 was AWESOME! Triple-countering like a boss! :affraid:

    Also, very nice music! Toonami, is that the artist? apparently not :|


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    Re: backstabbs and some ways of countering them

    Post by Rin on Sat Apr 07, 2012 10:36 am

    yes i dont speak it by 'ist' i met i am but in the slang of the local youth


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