Magical theory 201

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    Imarreteet23
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    Re: Magical theory 201

    Post by Imarreteet23 on Thu Apr 05, 2012 10:32 pm

    Well, considering that dragons are immortal, and therefore probably didn't have gods, and it seems that sorcerers are probably atheistic, maybe sorcerers chose the dragon as their symbol because it sort of symbolises logic instead of faith?


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    Re: Magical theory 201

    Post by cloudyeki on Thu Apr 05, 2012 10:50 pm

    I believe Logan's Homing Soul Mass is made from bits of the user's soul, so don't rule out the idea of paying the price of casting with your own soul. Of course, Vinhelm Sorcery is a very scientific kind of magic. It would explain why you need intelligence to use magic, you have to know how to form the energy into shape.


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    Re: Magical theory 201

    Post by Tolvo on Thu Apr 05, 2012 11:02 pm

    Logan is atheistic isn't he? Isn't he a rogue member of the Dragon School? That might verify that idea. It would seem he is very rigid in his belief as well, not merely an agnostic atheist but a pure atheist given his negative view of even the term god.

    http://youtu.be/f2z_cbgu6bQ

    Another thing is just about the words themselves in regards to power, it seems Sorcery is a science, it has laws that have to be known and understood. Miracles seem to have no true restriction, they appear to be beyond reason and require simply belief to use.

    Now, something I've always wondered is what actually makes a piece of wood a Catalyst, what actually makes some hair a talisman?
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    Re: Magical theory 201

    Post by cloudyeki on Thu Apr 05, 2012 11:08 pm

    Age. It seems that Catalyst grow more powerful the longer they're used. Talismans it could be that they're blessed by a priest. So if a bishop or a god blessed it, it could have more power that way. That's an interesting question though.


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    Re: Magical theory 201

    Post by Tolvo on Thu Apr 05, 2012 11:10 pm

    If they are required to cast magic, and use is required to turn them into catalysts, what was the first Catalyst? I could see age, as the older catalysts are typically stronger, but Logan's two are the strongest catalysts in the game if I remember correctly. And Logan isn't as old as Beatrice though the dress a bit similar.

    Some Talismans seem very simple, but yes I could see blessing being important. Maybe a reason why the Darkmoon Talisman is I believe the strongest, it is blessed the most recently probably and by a full fledged god.
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    Re: Magical theory 201

    Post by cloudyeki on Thu Apr 05, 2012 11:12 pm

    Though he does probably cast powerful spells frequently. Maybe it's because of residual magic left from casting so much?


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    Re: Magical theory 201

    Post by Tolvo on Thu Apr 05, 2012 11:13 pm

    Actually, I wonder if it is because Catalysts can channel magic, but not be destroyed by them. They do lose durability with use, as well in game all wooden shields boast magic blocking of some kind, often better than shields made of other materials. The ents are also resistant to magic, so perhaps wood is somehow resistant to magic, hinting that maybe the Arch Trees and trees of Darkroot have a magical property naturally to them?
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    Re: Magical theory 201

    Post by skarekrow13 on Thu Apr 05, 2012 11:14 pm

    Catalysts in science are materials that speed up s reaction......no idea why some sticks are better than others. Logan's grew stronger as he held it more so maybe there's some materials that naturally absorb or focus energy. Oolacile states material do others?

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    Re: Magical theory 201

    Post by cloudyeki on Thu Apr 05, 2012 11:15 pm

    That could be it. Archtree's could have been what original catalyst were made from. But as time went on people sought out more readily available trees.


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    Re: Magical theory 201

    Post by Imarreteet23 on Thu Apr 05, 2012 11:24 pm

    Excuse me, professer? Are we still disscusing sorcery or are we moving on?


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    Re: Magical theory 201

    Post by cloudyeki on Thu Apr 05, 2012 11:25 pm

    Ah, I'm happy to be called that. And I still want to know everyone's theory behind the scientific sorcery of Vinhelm, and why there need for 'spooks'


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    Re: Magical theory 201

    Post by Tolvo on Thu Apr 05, 2012 11:27 pm

    I'll be back later, I wrote seven paragraphs, got it all deleted, then my computer crashed all of its systems and I lost everything, so as you might guess I'm very pissed off right now.
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    Re: Magical theory 201

    Post by Imarreteet23 on Thu Apr 05, 2012 11:39 pm

    It is odd, the need for said "spooks." Maybe the sorcerers discovered somthing momentous, and need to cover it up? Maybe Logan discovered somthing about the eternal dragon scales that he didn't want anyone else to know about, so he hired assasins and taught them the magic of stealth.

    Btw sorry Tolvo, that sucks Hard.





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    Re: Magical theory 201

    Post by cloudyeki on Thu Apr 05, 2012 11:45 pm

    We wait your return, friend.

    While we wait, I wanna ask why the need for so many stealth sorceries. Vinhelm has some sort of assassin corp. What they do I don't know, but the idea that a school would require something of the sort seems more than a lil far fetched. They also have a corp. of Magic Swordsmen. Maybe Seath was trying to build an army of sorts. Or maybe Vinhelm has some rather nasty enemies. The country is a magical hub, compared to Astora's and Thouroland's religious connections.

    The soul is the currency of Lordran. It's what bolsters your body. It's most likely what you use for magic. Seeker Logan leads the way in the use of soul magic, with his piercing Soul Spear and his Destructing Homing Soul Mass. When he finds the Duke's Archive he uses Seath's, the grandfather of modern Sorcery, research and finds that the soul and crystals have a tie somehow.


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    Re: Magical theory 201

    Post by DoughGuy on Thu Apr 05, 2012 11:53 pm

    Perhaps it is less Vinheim building an army and more the centre for magical training being comissioned to train all types. E.g. Carim might need some magic swordsmen so it sends them to Vinheim and says train these guys. The east might need some magic spooks so it sends them to Vinheim and says make these guys magically sneaky.


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    Re: Magical theory 201

    Post by cloudyeki on Thu Apr 05, 2012 11:56 pm

    Interesting. It does fit with the fact that it is a school. Bah, let the scholars be the scholars. lol.

    Oolacile sorcery and Dragon sorcery will be fun to discuss.


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    Re: Magical theory 201

    Post by DoughGuy on Fri Apr 06, 2012 12:05 am

    We've done a fair bit of Oz magic analysis in the darkroot thread. At least i thnk there was stuff about magic. We talked about so many different things it became hard to keep track.


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    Re: Magical theory 201

    Post by Imarreteet23 on Fri Apr 06, 2012 12:07 am

    Ok, heres what i think of the assasins.

    If you think about, Vinhiem is the only country besides the great swamp that has no ties to faith and gods whatsoever. And, because DkS takes place in a medieval setting, and typically medeival people fear anything that isn't based on religion, it would make sense that Vinhiem has lots of enemies. Additionally, the sorcerers are smart. They know that if any groundbreaking news were to get out, the other countries would fear them, and therefore hate them, more. So, what i think is, that in addition to their swordsman army, they have a group of assasins to make sure that nothing of the sorcerers findings get out to the public, because that could very well lead to all out war between countries.


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    Re: Magical theory 201

    Post by DoughGuy on Fri Apr 06, 2012 12:09 am

    Don't forget the East. We don't know if they hav egods there. they could actually be allied with Vinheim, supplying them with spooks.


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    Re: Magical theory 201

    Post by Imarreteet23 on Fri Apr 06, 2012 12:13 am

    It would make sense for the east and Vinhiem to be in alliance. That both of them are strongly influenced by stealth cant just be a coincedence.


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    Re: Magical theory 201

    Post by cloudyeki on Fri Apr 06, 2012 12:14 am

    I do believe that they were a bit underhanded, from what I read in that thread. I also think they all got poofed away because they wanted an invisible home. (horrible idea, you can see what's happening inside all the time! :oops: )

    Does that mean that Griggs is making sure Logan keeps his mouth shut?

    The East is a puzzle, wrapped in an enigma, shrouded in riddles, lovingly sprinkled with intrigue, express mailed to Mystery, Alaska. Seriously, we can only know about it from Shiva, and some weapons we can buy and find in the oddest places. If the East did have a magic of sorts, I'd imagine it might be like the outland spells in the game, like emit force, fire surge, and cast light.


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    Re: Magical theory 201

    Post by DoughGuy on Fri Apr 06, 2012 12:23 am

    Cast light is from Oz


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    Re: Magical theory 201

    Post by Imarreteet23 on Fri Apr 06, 2012 12:27 am

    By the way, just some food for thought, Rickert the blacksmith can make magic as well as crystal weapons.


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    Re: Magical theory 201

    Post by DoughGuy on Fri Apr 06, 2012 12:29 am

    Doesnt the giant blacksmith make crystal weapons? I know Rickett makes enchanted weps though.


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    Re: Magical theory 201

    Post by Imarreteet23 on Fri Apr 06, 2012 12:31 am

    The wiki lists both of them as people who can make crystal weapons.


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