I don't think a PC port is very likely for the "Big DKS Announcment"

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    Baiulus
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    I don't think a PC port is very likely for the "Big DKS Announcment"

    Post by Baiulus on Wed Apr 04, 2012 10:19 pm

    And if that is what it is, the hype is quite unnecessary.

    I mean think about it: The people who are following what's going on with Dark Souls at this point already own the game, and play it a decent amount on their console. The preceding statement being true, why would console gamers give a damn if PC gamers can play Dark Souls now?

    Another thing is the big "The Wall Must Fall" campaign on Facebook. Again, with the people who would even bother liking the game on Facebook being those who already have played it on console, I'd think it'd be a waste of shameless hype if all it was was a PC port.

    With that being said, I also find it a tad unlikely for the announcement to be DLC. As it has already been commented on in the past, From stated they had no intention of releasing DLC for the game at any point.

    Just my thought. cheers


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    Re: I don't think a PC port is very likely for the "Big DKS Announcment"

    Post by fujiphoenix on Wed Apr 04, 2012 10:35 pm

    Maybe it's a complete overhaul of the pvp portion. You know, fixing backstabs, lag, and redesigning the whole gravelord covenant to work like they advertised it would. And if they can somehow call God down from heaven for a day, make griefing impossible. I want them to make it so impossible that Chuck Norris wouldn't even give it a go.

    Edit: Is that Peter Parker in your profile picture? You know, when he turns emo and goes ape **** on Mary Jane's face?
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    Re: I don't think a PC port is very likely for the "Big DKS Announcment"

    Post by neon__noodle on Wed Apr 04, 2012 11:00 pm

    @Baiulus - I just read an interview with the producer today. The link is posted here somewhere and I can't find it right now. But, point is, Miyazaki, the producer, alluded to the fact that he would like to do something in terms of DLC. They hadn't done anything by release because of time constraints.

    Maybe someone can help out and paste those links. Sorry for not having the source


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    Re: I don't think a PC port is very likely for the "Big DKS Announcment"

    Post by BartholomewWenceslas on Wed Apr 04, 2012 11:04 pm

    I agree with you and also kind of disagree. It wouldn't make sense to be hyping this up in the DkS community because we all own the game already and have no need for it on the computer. However, it's most likely going to be ported to the PC at some point, and after the whole "no DLC" thing From said, it's just confusing. I hope it's not a PC port because then I'm getting excited for something that doesn't even affect me...


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    Re: I don't think a PC port is very likely for the "Big DKS Announcment"

    Post by CrackSouls on Wed Apr 04, 2012 11:04 pm

    I agree with the OP, although one thing to keep in mind is that it is NAMCO running the Facebook hype. Not From. Who knows what they're thinking.


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    Re: I don't think a PC port is very likely for the "Big DKS Announcment"

    Post by Guest on Wed Apr 04, 2012 11:52 pm

    DLC as follows...

    1. An actual pendent quest(fans would rage since it was't originally put in the game)

    2. "Cup Size" adjustment added when creating female characters; Results show in some armor like chain armor(best form fitting piece in the game), & the light weight poiseless armors (would piss off some fans while other will jump for joy)

    3. New outfits including the G@y Pirate for the males & Plate Mail Bikini for the females.(some would rage because it's not realistic for female armor).

    4. Reduce the dmg of backstabs & riptose. (most would be ok with this I think)

    5. Create an actual story driven arc since the game lacks one (most would be ok with this I think)
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    Re: I don't think a PC port is very likely for the "Big DKS Announcment"

    Post by bloodpixel on Wed Apr 04, 2012 11:57 pm

    Oo1Zer0 wrote:DLC as follows...

    1. An actual pendent quest(fans would rage since it was't originally put in the game)

    2. "Cup Size" adjustment added when creating female characters; Results show in some armor like chain armor(best form fitting piece in the game), & the light weight poiseless armors (would piss off some fans while other will jump for joy)

    3. New outfits including the G@y Pirate for the males & Plate Mail Bikini for the females.(some would rage because it's not realistic for female armor).


    4. Reduce the dmg of backstabs & riptose. (most would be ok with this I think)

    5. Create an actual story driven arc since the game lacks one (most would be ok with this I think)
    LOL


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    Re: I don't think a PC port is very likely for the "Big DKS Announcment"

    Post by Baiulus on Wed Apr 04, 2012 11:57 pm

    fujiphoenix wrote:Maybe it's a complete overhaul of the pvp portion. You know, fixing backstabs, lag, and redesigning the whole gravelord covenant to work like they advertised it would. And if they can somehow call God down from heaven for a day, make griefing impossible. I want them to make it so impossible that Chuck Norris wouldn't even give it a go.

    Edit: Is that Peter Parker in your profile picture? You know, when he turns emo and goes ape **** on Mary Jane's face?

    I'm not sure what the problem is with back stabs, but the lag could use some help. I hadn't had a problem with that till recently, but when I did, it was 2v1 (me being the 1.) and the second guy who invaded looked normal trying to kill me at one point, and then he'd fade to looking like he'd been crucified with his head down and arms out the next moment, standing perfectly still like that. : P

    Not sure how'd they fix griefing..

    And yes, that is Peter Parker. Not sure what part he makes this face, but I love it. king


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    Re: I don't think a PC port is very likely for the "Big DKS Announcment"

    Post by vageta31 on Thu Apr 05, 2012 12:01 am

    Oo1Zer0 wrote:DLC as follows...

    1. An actual pendent quest(fans would rage since it was't originally put in the game)

    2. "Cup Size" adjustment added when creating female characters; Results show in some armor like chain armor(best form fitting piece in the game), & the light weight poiseless armors (would piss off some fans while other will jump for joy)

    3. New outfits including the G@y Pirate for the males & Plate Mail Bikini for the females.(some would rage because it's not realistic for female armor).

    4. Reduce the dmg of backstabs & riptose. (most would be ok with this I think)

    5. Create an actual story driven arc since the game lacks one (most would be ok with this I think)

    I wouldn't be ok with 4. Parry and riposte is not an easy thing to do in pvp so reducing damage gimps skilled players and rewards people who insist on spamming attacks. Backstabs really don't bother me either way, but in a roundabout way it also gives people more leeway to heal or play stupidly since they're less fearful of punishment. If you can outheal a backstab then we'll see far more estus chuggers than we do now.



    All they have to do with backstabs is shrink the effective window to require a bit more precise positioning. Getting completely behind someone is more difficult than the usual 45 degree angle that is required. This way true punishment backstabs are still effective, but some of the other "wtf" type are lessened. Also to go off on a different tangent, a small window of inability to backstab after taking damage would be nice. Much like you can't backstab with a shield up, you shouldn't be able to backstab for a short window after you take damage. That way poise backstabbing isn't possible.


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    Re: I don't think a PC port is very likely for the "Big DKS Announcment"

    Post by Guest on Thu Apr 05, 2012 12:05 am

    The point of reducing both is to reduce the likelyhood of one shot kills. Allot of weapons can riposte for +1500 damage which is more health than most players have. Especially if you limit yourself to a 120 SL build. Also there are several ways to avoid being backstabbed. If it actually happens to you the majority of the time it's your fault.
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    Re: I don't think a PC port is very likely for the "Big DKS Announcment"

    Post by vageta31 on Thu Apr 05, 2012 12:25 am

    Oo1Zer0 wrote:The point of reducing both is to reduce the likelyhood of one shot kills. Allot of weapons can riposte for +1500 damage which is more health than most players have. Especially if you limit yourself to a 120 SL build. Also there are several ways to avoid being backstabbed. If it actually happens to you the majority of the time it's your fault.



    I understand that, however players that have low enough health to be OHKO at level 120 are the very players doing the massive backstab damage as they are putting way more points into their weapon/buff stats instead of vitality. They most likely are also using rings and armor that increase damage, but don't boost health which again further ups their damage. In that sense, they do it at their own peril and have no one else to blame for dying in one shot.



    The problem I have is a developer using ham-handed methods to "fix" problems and end up causing more than they started with. I've seen it a lot in my time playing games like Ultima Online, Everquest and other MMORPG's. Fix one thing and introduce twice as many problems. If you reduce riposte/backstab damage then you effectively change the entire meta of pvp. If people fear backstabs/ripostes less then they will play more sloppily. People will focus more on big damage weapons and DMB+3 buffs that can do more than what a typical backstab will do. Since they won't worry as much about being punished they can afford to spam attacks and hope to get lucky, when in reality they should have to be careful not to get caught.



    This is not focused at you, but there are a lot of people offering suggestions to fix pvp that obviously don't have enough experience to be giving advice. Most people advanced enough in pvp don't have a problem with backstabs as it is. They know how to avoid them and punish others that clumsily try to perform them. It's the newcomers to pvp that have the biggest issue, and instead of actually finding a way to overcome it they lash out at the boards and claim "pvp is broken!". They want to get rid of all the "cheap" things they see without realizing that it's not going to fix the basic issue. Those that have more pvp and experience will still beat you. It doesn't matter if it's by backstab, riposte, stun locking or WOGing you off a cliff. If they are more skilled then you will most likely lose. Does it really matter if you die to a backstab, a riposte, a WOG or a 4 hit stunlock combo from a +15 claymore with DMB+3?

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    Re: I don't think a PC port is very likely for the "Big DKS Announcment"

    Post by Guest on Thu Apr 05, 2012 12:38 am

    What would you suggest then? Making armor factor more into defense (hide from the havel cleaning ladies)? On another note I find it funny how people who do the obvious fish for backstabs generally don't use weapons made for that. Aren't daggers supposed to get a bonus when used for bs?
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    Re: I don't think a PC port is very likely for the "Big DKS Announcment"

    Post by bloodpixel on Thu Apr 05, 2012 1:19 am

    Oo1Zer0 wrote:What would you suggest then? Making armor factor more into defense (hide from the havel cleaning ladies)? On another note I find it funny how people who do the obvious fish for backstabs generally don't use weapons made for that. Aren't daggers supposed to get a bonus when used for bs?
    That's true, but other weapons can do the same amount of damage anyway.


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    Re: I don't think a PC port is very likely for the "Big DKS Announcment"

    Post by vageta31 on Thu Apr 05, 2012 1:47 am

    bloodpixel wrote:
    Oo1Zer0 wrote:What would you suggest then? Making armor factor more into defense (hide from the havel cleaning ladies)? On another note I find it funny how people who do the obvious fish for backstabs generally don't use weapons made for that. Aren't daggers supposed to get a bonus when used for bs?
    That's true, but other weapons can do the same amount of damage anyway.



    Bloodpixel makes a very valid point which is part of the issue at hand. To answer the initial question, there is no "simple" answer. However if I were to try and fix the situation here is the way I'd suggest.



    1. Reduce the backstab initiation zone.

    Right now there is something akin to a 45 degree cone behind your opponent where you can initiate a backstab. While in reality this makes sense, with lag and other issues it's too abusable. Change it to a much smaller angle so you literally have to be directly behind an opponent to trigger the backstab animation. This will keep it possible for players to take advantage of times where the opponent leaves themselves open, but reduce the ability for the average player to just run up somewhere in the general vicinity and still get one off.

    2. Add a small time frame where you cannot initiate a backstab after taking damage.

    Poise backstabbing is a horrible meta game condition. Taking a claymore to the face in order to initiate a backstab is simply ridiculous. Poise is great to reduce the chance of getting stunlocked or to purposely trade blows with someone that has a smaller weapon. It should not however have been possible to use it as a method to get an easy backstab by charging through an opponents attack. Backstab is supposed to be a somewhat elegant attack so allowing someone in full Havel's/Giants to clumsily walk behind you while shrugging off your attack and backstab you is beyond lame. It only has to be a small number of frames, just enough so that it can't be used in this way.



    3. Reduce the critical modifier on large, high AR weapons.

    As was mentioned above, weapons that don't specialize in backstab damage still do more damage than weapons that have crit modifiers. Bandit daggers and rapiers aren't as much of a problem as BKGA and other large +15 weapons with DMB/SB/CMW.

    Think of it this way. It's logical to believe that someone could easily roll past an attack and get in a quick kidney stab with something like a dagger, short sword or rapier. It is not so logical for someone wielding a weapon as large as them to roll past you and do the same thing. The wind up time for small weapons is very short, while the wind up for large weapons is long and very telegraphed. The problem is there is no wind up animation for backstab. Once you lock it in it's guaranteed. Since there is probably no method in the game to muck with backstab wind up animations, it's best to handle it via the crit modifier.

    Daggers and rapiers have crit modifiers(some are hidden) above 1.0. All other weapons are considered baseline at 1.0. My suggestion would be to lower that crit damage on all large, high AR weapons so that they don't outdamage backstabs by weapons that are supposed to be specialized to do so. Something like 0.85 versus 1.0(perhaps a scaling modifier based on weapon class). That way they still do bonus damage for the backstab, but it isn't scaled to ridiculous numbers. If you've been backstabbed by a BKGA user with a hornet ring you'll know what I mean.



    This won't fix all the issues, but it should reduce the amount of backstabs performed by scrubby players who are the real issue here. Backstabs are needed in pvp as a deterrent for people who would otherwise resort to risky actions(chugging estus, sloppily swinging their weapon around, attempt to cast a slower spell, turn to try and run away). Backstabs help prevent sloppy players from getting away with stupid tactics and will reward patient, skilled players for taking advantage of those situations. Remove them, or their viability, and pvp will be uglier than it is now.

    Good luck trying to kill that guy in full Havel's who's chugging his stack of +7 estus flasks. You'll likely run out of stamina long before you're able to stun lock and finish him off. Wouldn't it be awesome if you could wear full Havel's/Giant's, throw on a wolf ring and then spam firestorm and laugh at your opponent while they hopelessly try to stop you? I don't think it would be. If you have anything less than an Ultra greatsword or better class weapon you would not succeed in time.

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