Challenge: The Four Kings

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    vageta31
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    Re: Challenge: The Four Kings

    Post by vageta31 on Wed Apr 04, 2012 1:02 am

    I was sl 5, basically just a starting knight. I chose that class as it was one of the few that could wield a Claymore without leveling up.

    Hope my comments weren't taken offensively, I was just calling out loopholes I saw in the specified rules. That's the thing with rules, the first thing most people do is try to find a way around them happy. I've done a few challenge play throughs so I tend to know what is possible and usually each challenge I'm restricting myself in some new way that I hadn't though of before. My naked run was no armor/shield but I allowed all rings. Which basically made it still a bit too easy with the DWGR/Rofap. My newest challenge doesn't allow any health/sta/burden increasing rings so that I have to rely on my base health. As an sl 3 sorcerer it's the lowest possible in the game at 8 vit and 8 end.


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    Re: Challenge: The Four Kings

    Post by Quarik on Wed Apr 04, 2012 1:43 am

    You are so many miles better at this game than I am. I'll just leave it at that. Thread over, vageta31 wins all of the internets.


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    Re: Challenge: The Four Kings

    Post by vageta31 on Wed Apr 04, 2012 1:56 am

    Quarik wrote:You are so many miles better at this game than I am. I'll just leave it at that. Thread over, vageta31 wins all of the internets.

    Naw man, it's not even like that. I've obviously just spent more time playing than the average gamer is all. There are crazy japanese guys who are on NG+7 with an sl 1 character.

    I probably went off on a tangent I shouldn't have, all I was getting at was there would be those that could overcome the challenge by just taking advantages of things you hadn't specified. It's still a good challenge, especially for those that haven't done any sort of challenge before. If anything it will up their level of play skills considerably. if they accomplish it. My only real suggestion is to specify level and any other equipment limits you had in mind. The good thing about 4 kings is that you can only really use 1 ring so you have to choose it carefully.
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    Re: Challenge: The Four Kings

    Post by Quarik on Wed Apr 04, 2012 2:36 am

    It's fine. And yes, you are much much better than I am. I'm getting worse at pve because of all of the pvp I've been doing. Kinda gives me an idea of how good some people are though. T4K weren't very difficult on NG, but NG+ was a pain for me because I didn't understand what to do and I'm bad at dodging. For what it's worth, I've dropped about 150 hours into DkS, which pales in comparison to some people on these forums. I do consider myself to be decent, though. Certainly better than most of the LPers I've watched on youtube. Even so though, the skill ceiling for the game is so ridiculously high I could never hope to touch it. At least I can walk all over the faces of gankers. That's satisfying enough for me.

    Sudden idea for a new challenge. Broken Sword Hilt/Broken Straight Sword (whatever they're called), no armor, no healing, no upgrades, and no buffs as a SL3 sorcerer. NG X for super points of pwnz0rness. Could go even more extreme with just fists. Seems like it'd be kinda lame though. There's a point where it doesn't get any more difficult, it just requires you to not mess up for a longer period of time. So meh... what do you think vageta?


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    Re: Challenge: The Four Kings

    Post by vageta31 on Wed Apr 04, 2012 4:05 am

    Broken short sword even with full upgrades would be pushing it. Non upgraded is basically impossible. The problem with crazy challenges in this game is the 4 kings. Almost every other area in the game can be beaten, however ridiculously long it may take, with the weakest weapons. 4 kings however have a built in time limit and if you can't kill them fast enough you will eventually get swarmed. I barely made it with my claymore and gold pine resin, let alone a really weak weapon.



    Basically any limitation on health, stamina, armor or shield is theoretically possible. Limitations on damage output however get tricky. I mean it'd be possible to do an sl 3 sorcerer, melee only, no armor/shield with the added challenge of getting cursed asap and going through the game with half health. It'd be difficult but possible as long as you're allowed to use a fully upgraded weapon.
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    Re: Challenge: The Four Kings

    Post by Quarik on Wed Apr 04, 2012 4:02 pm

    You are twisted for thinking of that. Nice work... Ultimate test of skill would be sl3 sorcerer on the max playthrough, no armor, no upgrades, no healing, cursed, no shields, with fists. That's just mean. If anyone actually does that you're crazy and should stop playing DkS for a while but also be forever known as the greatest gamer in history. Disclaimer: I am not liable for your broken controllers, tv's, and consoles. Don't even know how you could do that. You'd have to be 100% aware of the locations of each king and either dodge everything or figure out a way to only draw attacks from one of them. You'd also have to figure out a way to either dodge the big magic attacks of doom or just never pull them. Ignore this post, NO ONE DO THIS.


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    Re: Challenge: The Four Kings

    Post by callipygias on Wed Apr 04, 2012 6:21 pm

    vageta31 wrote: 4 kings however have a built in time limit and if you can't kill them fast enough you will eventually get swarmed. I.
    I once went in with a (relatively) weak weapon at NG+infinity and ended up with 4 kings on me. I was really, really surprised that it wasn't as bad as I'd feared. Once the 4th king is out and you're still alive it's kind of a relief, like hey, I might be able to do this. And I did. But it wasn't a Vageta-worthy challenge or anything, I was swinging some kind of sword... I think it was my +5 Silver Knight Sword, and I was sporting 2,000hp. Still it was plenty tough for my tastes. I had four kings up for probably half the fight, and they're a b1tchbarrel of nasty at NG+inf.


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    Re: Challenge: The Four Kings

    Post by sparkly-twinkly-lizard on Wed Apr 04, 2012 7:15 pm

    how many kings can spawn over the course of the fight, i've had a grand total of 6 show up (not at once but...)


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    Re: Challenge: The Four Kings

    Post by Quarik on Wed Apr 04, 2012 7:47 pm

    I think only 4 at a time.


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    Re: Challenge: The Four Kings

    Post by sparkly-twinkly-lizard on Wed Apr 04, 2012 8:01 pm

    yes only 4 at once but say you kill two, two more spawn so im wondering if someone could get a total of seven to spawn over the course of the fight...


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    Re: Challenge: The Four Kings

    Post by callipygias on Wed Apr 04, 2012 8:03 pm

    sparkly-twinkly-lizard wrote:i saw a guy use slb on a dagger for the kings once, really effective and he wasn't in hyper mode either (was a summoned helper for ng+)
    slb absolutely wrecks them. It's the only thing besides HCSM/CSS powerful enough to give me quiet time between kings at the higher levels. I stopped using it on my Great Scythe +15 because it was taking the fun out of it.

    vageta31 wrote:There are crazy japanese guys who are on NG+7 with an sl 1 character.
    Have you seen this? How in the hell could they possibly deal with the infinity kings?


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    Re: Challenge: The Four Kings

    Post by ChizFreak on Wed Apr 04, 2012 8:20 pm

    Quarik wrote:I dunno. You'd be fully equipped in NG+, and if you have havels/giant/stone knight armor they're a cakewalk. They weren't terribly easy in NG either though. Also, if you have recording equipment, it'd be great to record from the beginning of the Asylum Demon fight to the Four Kings, if you're not doing any upgrades or anything.

    Did you really fought Four Kings in NG+? Because it sounds like you did not. You can't say they are a cakewalk just because you could use Stone Knight/Havels/Giants Armor against them.

    They are the harder boss of NG+. Even harder than Gwyn (if you're not parrying him). Only way you have kind of an advantage against them in NG+ (or NG) it would be if you're a mage. Then you could spam CSS and SS but I'm not sure you could kill them all only with that.


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    Re: Challenge: The Four Kings

    Post by vageta31 on Wed Apr 04, 2012 9:29 pm

    callipygias wrote:
    vageta31 wrote:There are crazy japanese guys who are on NG+7 with an sl 1 character.
    Have you seen this? How in the hell could they possibly deal with the infinity kings?



    I've seen it, but the thing is NG+ is the largest jump in difficulty. After that it only goes up a certain amount each up time up to NG+7 I believe. The thing about difficulty is always your damage output keeping up with the increase in hps. None of the enemies get any harder to dodge, they only do more damage assuming you get hit. So if you're already good at dodging most enemies you just have to ensure your damage output is high enough to deal with them.



    If you're running an SL 1 pyro without any limitations on gear then it's a matter of using your pyro with dusk crown, bellowing dragoncrest and/or red tearstone ring. This guy basically fought the kings like anyone at low level would by dodging everything, and just relied on using a lightning hand axe while in hyper mode. He actually took them out faster than I did during my naked run.
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    Re: Challenge: The Four Kings

    Post by Quarik on Thu Apr 05, 2012 1:15 am

    ChizFreak wrote:
    Quarik wrote:I dunno. You'd be fully equipped in NG+, and if you have havels/giant/stone knight armor they're a cakewalk. They weren't terribly easy in NG either though. Also, if you have recording equipment, it'd be great to record from the beginning of the Asylum Demon fight to the Four Kings, if you're not doing any upgrades or anything.

    Did you really fought Four Kings in NG+? Because it sounds like you did not. You can't say they are a cakewalk just because you could use Stone Knight/Havels/Giants Armor against them.

    They are the harder boss of NG+. Even harder than Gwyn (if you're not parrying him). Only way you have kind of an advantage against them in NG+ (or NG) it would be if you're a mage. Then you could spam CSS and SS but I'm not sure you could kill them all only with that.

    It took me a bit to realize that "Oh, tanking works" because I like to stay at <50% equip load I don't really use heavy armors, but I couldn't manage that fighting them and using my regular gear. So I switched to havel's for max protection and they were quite easy. I just spammed my GLGS and blocked their AoE magic attack with my greatshield of artorias. Never got staggered, stamina wasn't an issue, and I had about 5 seconds between kings to heal up. Was stupid and forgot to use my +5 flame though.


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