griefers- an endangered species?

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    Re: griefers- an endangered species?

    Post by Remoryu on Mon Apr 02, 2012 5:59 pm

    Doelker wrote:^ Its good to see that you got all that stuff from him, but imo, that breaks the game too. I think handling some humanities, moss or a +5 sword is a good help already.
    Maybe he intended to give you something to defend yourself with against griefers, but to me it aint helping either.
    One should earn that stuff by playing through the game and winning the boss battles.

    I completely agree. I made the character in question for the sake of getting through it with pals with a completely fresh setup and build, so getting that stuff was a tad bittersweet. The only items that he's given me that I've really touched are the spear (to defend myself during invasions only), and the chest piece of the Dark Sun set (for aesthetics).

    It's about the journey. If I wanted to decimate everything in my path, I'd use another character.


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    Re: griefers- an endangered species?

    Post by BartholomewWenceslas on Mon Apr 02, 2012 6:00 pm

    I don't really think griefers are getting very rare. Just the other day I was trying to fight the bell tower gargoyle with my longsword +5 and I got invaded by some guy with Quelaag's Furysword who killed me in one shot. It just doesn't seem fair to people who want to play the game legitly when people are going to run around ruining the game for you. I respect invasions and I see why they exist, but the way people treat early game invasions is insane. The bottomless box glitch might be helping out to combat griefers, but it's the main way griefers get all their items any way, so it's not too helpful.


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    Re: griefers- an endangered species?

    Post by ErrJon6661 on Mon Apr 02, 2012 6:01 pm

    Speaking from experience, I've made a low level darkwraith character to challenge myself. My plan was to invade the lower level area's, with lower level gear. My character started at sl 30 and is now sl 50. Between those two levels I've done nearly 20 hours of constant pvp in the depths, burg and blighttown. I started invading nude, using a rapier+10 and the grass crest shield, along with a catalyst and a couple low level sorceries like heavy soul arrow, chameleon and so on.

    What I found is that 9/10 times invading at this level you are encountering people with maxed gear. Thinking that I'm falling victim to the upper limit of the red eye orb I began checking the sl of my foes with an online calculator. I found many of these people with lightning katana's, mlgs ect were in the sl 28-40 range, very few were over sl 60. So I changed my loadout to include a lightning claymore. Now when I invade I try and scout my enemies gear. If they are using low level gear I stick with the rapier, if they are using high level gear they get the claymore. At sl 50 however, nearly everyone has maxed out gear.

    I understand that some of these people may have beaten the game and were on ng+ when I fought them. And some of them showed this by being excellent at pvp. Others however did not show the same skill and I can only assume that they had used the bb glitch.

    My point being, pvp at low levels is near impossible without maxed gear. There is simply nearly no way to win unless you'd like to backstab the dude with the lightning katana to death.

    In my opinion greifers are not a dying breed, there's just so many now low level pvp has become greifer on greifer action.


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    Re: griefers- an endangered species?

    Post by aceluby on Mon Apr 02, 2012 6:07 pm

    BartholomewWenceslas wrote:I don't really think griefers are getting very rare. Just the other day I was trying to fight the bell tower gargoyle with my longsword +5 and I got invaded by some guy with Quelaag's Furysword who killed me in one shot. It just doesn't seem fair to people who want to play the game legitly when people are going to run around ruining the game for you. I respect invasions and I see why they exist, but the way people treat early game invasions is insane. The bottomless box glitch might be helping out to combat griefers, but it's the main way griefers get all their items any way, so it's not too helpful.

    It doesn't help combat griefers, it makes it FAR FAR FAR worse. Then you've got guys who give OP weapons and armor away to 'help', though it just promotes the glitch w/out even using it. Not only that, but it breaks the leveling mechanics in PvE and the very well thought out natural progression of levels the game presents. I was pissed when I summoned a guy who two shot the gargoyles, it wasn't even a fight, much less a boss battle. And by fighting these guys using their methods you are just sinking to their level. If the griefers had nobody to invade they would stop.


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    Re: griefers- an endangered species?

    Post by Remoryu on Mon Apr 02, 2012 6:29 pm

    aceluby wrote:

    It doesn't help combat griefers, it makes it FAR FAR FAR worse. Then you've got guys who give OP weapons and armor away to 'help', though it just promotes the glitch w/out even using it. Not only that, but it breaks the leveling mechanics in PvE and the very well thought out natural progression of levels the game presents. I was pissed when I summoned a guy who two shot the gargoyles, it wasn't even a fight, much less a boss battle. And by fighting these guys using their methods you are just sinking to their level. If the griefers had nobody to invade they would stop.

    The problem here is that griefers will never run out of people to invade if people still play the game normally. Someone not using the BB glitch doesn't make them not within SL range of someone that wants to ruin your day by invading a low-level area with max gear. By 'not sinking to their level,' you essentially guarantee the invader's victory, which costs you time and progress.

    I can agree that the PvE experience can be utterly destroyed by the proliferation and continuation of dupe glitches and low-level invasions, but expecting players to gimp themselves to prove a point is absurd, especially when it doesn't make a difference either way.


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    Re: griefers- an endangered species?

    Post by Doelker on Mon Apr 02, 2012 6:39 pm

    If you know how to build your character ( actually I justarted to understand how to build one, even aceluby gave me some inputs about a faith characterbI did because it was unbalanced), when you get to know the game better by it pures mechanics you can do some pretty good damage without any glitch at all.
    For my int build, i went to get the astoras sword because i didn't want to use the dragon sword anymore, then i had the master key so I was able to reach the darkroot basin and kill the hydra and the golem to free dusk. I got her staff and then went to the lower burg to free griggs and buy the spells and the ring that gives power to spells a d used dusk crown as well.
    I was able to do all that just killi g the taurus demon with the estoc from new londo at the beginning.
    Right now using the crown and ring I can do about 300 damage with a heavy soul arrow wich it isn't bad for a real toon with real sl equipment.
    My point is, that once you know the game, you don't need any bb glitch to do some good damage... Of course, in a normal basis I mean.


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    Re: griefers- an endangered species?

    Post by Remoryu on Mon Apr 02, 2012 6:52 pm

    You're speaking in terms of people that want to both build a character in a very specific way, and can make it through the lower levels to get the items or souls they need to be anywhere near effective against other players with superior gear. Doing moderate damage to standard enemies is one thing. Doing enough damage to kill a phantom that can lock you down with a weapon that bypasses defenses, or one-shot you before you get a swing off, is another story.


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    Re: griefers- an endangered species?

    Post by Doelker on Mon Apr 02, 2012 7:05 pm

    Remoryu wrote:You're speaking in terms of people that want to both build a character in a very specific way, and can make it through the lower levels to get the items or souls they need to be anywhere near effective against other players with superior gear. Doing moderate damage to standard enemies is one thing. Doing enough damage to kill a phantom that can lock you down with a weapon that bypasses defenses, or one-shot you before you get a swing off, is another story.

    Yeap... You're right. That is why I ended saying that it was on a normal basis... And WE KNOW griefers are way beyond that...

    Even if I was invaded in the lower burg I would have been torn into pieces. That is why I love to leave my sign and help through the level and boss fight, that way you can show people that play the game fair and square that there is still people like us that like to make the game funnier and exciting and not just troll around wanting you to quit as soon as posible.


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    Re: griefers- an endangered species?

    Post by aceluby on Tue Apr 03, 2012 10:45 am

    Doelker wrote:
    Remoryu wrote:You're speaking in terms of people that want to both build a character in a very specific way, and can make it through the lower levels to get the items or souls they need to be anywhere near effective against other players with superior gear. Doing moderate damage to standard enemies is one thing. Doing enough damage to kill a phantom that can lock you down with a weapon that bypasses defenses, or one-shot you before you get a swing off, is another story.

    Yeap... You're right. That is why I ended saying that it was on a normal basis... And WE KNOW griefers are way beyond that...

    Even if I was invaded in the lower burg I would have been torn into pieces. That is why I love to leave my sign and help through the level and boss fight, that way you can show people that play the game fair and square that there is still people like us that like to make the game funnier and exciting and not just troll around wanting you to quit as soon as posible.

    This is what I do as well, though I typically start in the Parish since I feel doing the burg solo is part of the learning experience.


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    Re: griefers- an endangered species?

    Post by aceluby on Tue Apr 03, 2012 10:48 am

    Remoryu wrote:
    aceluby wrote:

    It doesn't help combat griefers, it makes it FAR FAR FAR worse. Then you've got guys who give OP weapons and armor away to 'help', though it just promotes the glitch w/out even using it. Not only that, but it breaks the leveling mechanics in PvE and the very well thought out natural progression of levels the game presents. I was pissed when I summoned a guy who two shot the gargoyles, it wasn't even a fight, much less a boss battle. And by fighting these guys using their methods you are just sinking to their level. If the griefers had nobody to invade they would stop.

    The problem here is that griefers will never run out of people to invade if people still play the game normally. Someone not using the BB glitch doesn't make them not within SL range of someone that wants to ruin your day by invading a low-level area with max gear. By 'not sinking to their level,' you essentially guarantee the invader's victory, which costs you time and progress.

    I can agree that the PvE experience can be utterly destroyed by the proliferation and continuation of dupe glitches and low-level invasions, but expecting players to gimp themselves to prove a point is absurd, especially when it doesn't make a difference either way.

    You can play the game normally offline or hollow, which is what I do for the first few levels minus boss runs. I don't consider either option 'gimping' or absurd, especially when compared to Demon's Souls.


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    Re: griefers- an endangered species?

    Post by Saturnine Knight on Tue Apr 03, 2012 11:00 am

    I use the glitch, but only to get certain armor and weapons. When you play at low levels only, getting the Pardoner's Outfit is pretty hard. And I still don't have Beatrice's stuff.

    Griefers though, I hate them. Especially in the Burg. When I notice that there's a bunch of them around, I take out my pyromancer and just Firestorm them when they pop up, though I do try to check their armor first, so I know if it's a griefer. If I see Havel's, I'm dropping the match.


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    Re: griefers- an endangered species?

    Post by RANT on Tue Apr 03, 2012 11:22 am

    why would you invade on those specific areas? just go somewhere else so you dont troll anyone there.


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    Re: griefers- an endangered species?

    Post by lextune on Tue Apr 03, 2012 11:52 am

    reim0027 wrote:I just don't have fun invading (other than invading areas where there usually are hosts). Either one of 2 things happen. I encounter a quester with 2 phantoms and get slaughtered. Or, I run into a solo quester and feel bad if I beat them.

    You can counter these feelings.

    Invade at a level higher than is appropriate for an area and you will invade players in NG+(++++ etc.).

    My level 75 Darkwraith in the Demon Ruins very rarely invades anyone not in NG+ or higher, (you can almost always tell).

    As for the host and two phantoms part; what's more fun than that?! It is awesome to try and win a 3 on 1, and even more awesome when you do. happy


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    Re: griefers- an endangered species?

    Post by ErrJon6661 on Tue Apr 03, 2012 9:29 pm

    lextune wrote:

    As for the host and two phantoms part; what's more fun than that?! It is awesome to try and win a 3 on 1, and even more awesome when you do. happy


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    Re: griefers- an endangered species?

    Post by DxV04 on Wed Apr 04, 2012 12:41 am

    I am sorry but TS (thread starter) very few people will go out and buy this game and BB glitch as soon as they get home. The people you are seeing could be anything, they could be on NG plus something, they could be griefing, they could have BB glitched do attain something. What you don't see are the new players running around hollow because they are afraid (after making it through the burg or gargoyles and getting raped) or do not understand the game.

    Remember just because you do not see something does not mean it does not exist in this game.

    So I have to disagree with your theory. The BB glitch further stratifies the players in this game.
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    Re: griefers- an endangered species?

    Post by Yarxov on Wed Apr 04, 2012 1:13 am

    If you ARE going to invade low areas for sport, keep the following in mind:

    -Parish weapons must not exceed +10 normal, or be ascended mods (ie, +6-10 fire, chaos, enchanted, occult, lightning) (Raw is fine)

    -(upper)Burg weapons must not exceed +5 normal, or be modded. (Raw is fine)

    - Depths and B-town are the same as Parish

    -Anti-glitcher equipment is allowed as most summons have maxed gear, but if its 1v1 and the host seems clean (a Message to confirm would be ideal)

    To further distance yourself from griefers you could drop 1 humanity so the new player has a chance of redemption and essentially no real loss, instead having some needed practice dueling.


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    Re: griefers- an endangered species?

    Post by Tolvo on Wed Apr 04, 2012 4:53 am

    Yar you remind me of a very, smack my own face with a hammer, story. I once invaded in the Burg as a darkmoon to check things out, I assumed I was fighting a guy who was NG+. Since he had two summons, a sun and a white. I fought the two and killed them, 1v2/3 is my speciality after all. I got to him and hit him for...90% of his health, with a BSS. I then realized, holy ****, this guy is level 1-5. His summons, more than likely Anti-Griefers. I just assumed they were glass cannons. So I bowed to him, and dropped a humanity. He hit me a few times and yeah, unupgraded everything. I decided to fight with just a claw and removed all of my armor giving him a PvP experience, he would run away and flask, I'd chase him and fight. Eventually he got really low on health and I was just about to BC when I saw a Dark Wraith, they ran straight for the new player and I ran right in between them and parry and riposted him. I still had the claw, so I did no damage. I got hit by him once for half my health, being a Dark Wraith he was invading upwards, so his lightning weapons and Giants meant he was a griefer. I pushed him back and defended the host while switching to my better gear and ended up stunlocking him with my Mura. I killed him and the host was backed into a corner, out of flasks and everything, so I ran up to him. I kicked him. Dropped two humanity, then jumped off the cliff. I got a message around five minutes after that.

    "What the *** was that about? No seriously, what the hell just happened here?"

    So I wondered why he was so confused, and I looked at my inventory.

    "No humanity? How is that possible?"

    Guess what, I gave that guy 99 Humanity.

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    Re: griefers- an endangered species?

    Post by Yarxov on Wed Apr 04, 2012 10:57 am

    That seems like a really confusing as hell moment for the host lol, a true "welcome to dark souls"

    Invaders are all assumed to be griefers lately, very few summons are 'legitimate' and I regretfully admit to having a glitched 'anti-griefer' (sl 20, rather slow activity though) to duel invader, but i have yet to see a fair invader.


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    Re: griefers- an endangered species?

    Post by djgq42 on Wed Apr 04, 2012 11:27 am

    Yarxov wrote:That seems like a really confusing as hell moment for the host lol, a true "welcome to dark souls"

    Invaders are all assumed to be griefers lately, very few summons are 'legitimate' and I regretfully admit to having a glitched 'anti-griefer' (sl 20, rather slow activity though) to duel invader, but i have yet to see a fair invader.

    funny you should say that. i was invaded in the burg yesterday by someone using the drake sword. sad as it is, i was so happy no to be griefed i sent him a message after i killed him thanking him for a fair fight.
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    Re: griefers- an endangered species?

    Post by Yarxov on Wed Apr 04, 2012 11:59 am

    You shouldve dueled him with a drake sword of your own!


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    Re: griefers- an endangered species?

    Post by djgq42 on Wed Apr 04, 2012 12:25 pm

    Yarxov wrote:You shouldve dueled him with a drake sword of your own!
    i hadn't even got through the burg yet! happy had to use my starting bandit knife (which is a pretty good weapon anyway). if i only knew how to backstab in pvp it wouldn't have been such a close fight :oops:
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    Re: griefers- an endangered species?

    Post by Yarxov on Wed Apr 04, 2012 12:59 pm

    PvP backstabs are the same as PvE, just harder to set up


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    Re: griefers- an endangered species?

    Post by Remoryu on Wed Apr 04, 2012 11:36 pm

    aceluby wrote:

    You can play the game normally offline or hollow, which is what I do for the first few levels minus boss runs. I don't consider either option 'gimping' or absurd, especially when compared to Demon's Souls.

    The solution of 'play offline or hollow' completely removes what I consider to be an integral part of the game--the multiplayer. Not everyone can or wants to play through the game alone, so sacrificing a game mechanic to avoid griefers and hackers can easily 'gimp' your overall experience with the game you paid for. That seems pretty absurd to me.


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