The Darkroot Woods

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    DoughGuy
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    Re: The Darkroot Woods

    Post by DoughGuy on Tue Apr 03, 2012 9:14 am

    She doesnt fade, she kinda goes like a phantom does when they die if i remember correctly. I think its a teleport not a dissipation.


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    Re: The Darkroot Woods

    Post by skarekrow13 on Tue Apr 03, 2012 10:23 am

    Alvina.....well.....she Cheshire Cat's the hell outta town leaving you only with threats and anger. Tolvo.....I compared the swords at the grave to all the greatswords I have (all of them). They are similar to Gwyn's but both are actually unique as far as I can tell. Anor Londo, with some exceptions (cough...bedrooms...cough) is Giant sized. Big doors, big halls, etc. New Londo is not. So.....the above is a good summary. Anor Londo is the home of the gods.....the city in the sky, one with the sun, fun for all. New Londo is likely modeled after their city. As for decay issues.....Who would build better quality stuff? Gods? or wee little guys like us? Also, my theory is Anor Londo was rebuilt after Gwyn and other gods left. Not only are there no statues of the firstborn but there are also some key missing pieces besides him. Ornstein has a statue. Ornstein has a trophy room. Why no Artorias statue? What, traitors don't get statues? Ok...I can buy that. Where are the one for Ciaran and Gough? Hmmmmm.......Why does Smough have a statue? He's the city's executioner, typically not a glorified position in high society. My theory is that after Artorias' betrayed the group and most gods left, those left behind rebuilt the city in their image. Ornstein and Smough became the new regime of knights, with Gwyndolin trying to maintain his family's legacy and power from the shadows. More evidence for rebuilt city theory.....there is a painting in Anor Londo that depicts the city with a Halberd Giant prominently displayed. There is a small shadowy figure that looks ready to jack it up good. The city shows a lot of red color, reminiscent of fire. Getting back to the woods and valley and New Londo, I don't think Artorias was killed in the forest. Going with my secret cemetery idea, I don't think his murderers would want to allow such a glorious tribute to me made, and allow the one item needed to complete a quest to end them to just hang out there. Artorias' connection with New Londo and the covenant might mean he fought on their side when the city was flooded, maybe falling there. I see the concept of the dark sword needing to be used there for ghosts but I don't buy it. Artorias would have had to go into unflooded New Londo to reach the abyss, meaning those large piles or corpses/remains and ghosties weren't there to use it on. If Artorias did fall in New Londo, Valley of Drakes would possibly have been the way to sneak him back to the woods for a proper burial.

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    Re: The Darkroot Woods

    Post by Tolvo on Tue Apr 03, 2012 9:53 pm

    Alright, just noticed a few small finds within the forest. First of all, the forest hunters are all decently young. As well I actually found out the knight by the Pharis Girl is actually female. For some reason, all of them are looking down as well, odd. Also, there are symbols along the wall that has the door the Crest is used upon. These symbols resemble symbols found in Sen's Fortress, you can check yourself. They are on a lot of pillars in Sen's, such as around the Cage Shortcut.

    Also a small note, the word Shiva means to bring Good Fortune or Success, to be gravious, and to be kind.

    I can't say really either is definite in regards to the Golems, Seath might have had a hand in them, he might not have. However the presence of a Butterfly might infer that he at least has some influence in the area, along with the presence of a Crystal Golem which there is another of in his domain.

    Alvina leaves, she does not die.

    Skare, an interesting idea. Remember how Alvina is suspicious of Shiva? Along this idea of Ornstein/Smough searching for the Grave of Artorias with Knights, or with others, there might be a slight hint. I find it of interest, that Shiva's armor holds a Lion on it. I'll admit, if you are attempting subterfuge I suppose having the Symbol of the guy you're "secretly" working for on your armor is a bad idea, but it could be a hint.
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    Re: The Darkroot Woods

    Post by skarekrow13 on Tue Apr 03, 2012 10:38 pm

    Good find. I never noticed that. Sometimes hiding in plain sight is the best way. Will have to look at that. On a sidenote related to what I am doing this second.......SAAAABRRRREEEEESSSSS! Sorry, they just tied the game in a huge way

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    Re: The Darkroot Woods

    Post by skarekrow13 on Tue Apr 03, 2012 10:44 pm

    Back to the forest....I was always curious as to why she is suspicious of him. The cemetary is the only thing being protected and its not like Sif hasn't held up her end of the bargain. At first I thought she was worried about him profiteering from killing other hunters but why would he do that. He's powerful and not shy of fighting. He can get all the loot he needs from trespassers. Also, who is he selling to (or meeting) in B. Town? There's something bigger Alvina is worried about than looting I bet. Might be time for more digging

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    Re: The Darkroot Woods

    Post by Emergence on Wed Apr 04, 2012 12:19 am

    With Shiva, from what I remember from the text dumps, there was extra dialogue involving the chaos blade which revealed his untrustworthiness, which I believe also explained his presence in btown.


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    Re: The Darkroot Woods

    Post by Tolvo on Wed Apr 04, 2012 3:48 am

    Yeah, as well you were going to get a Black Eye Orb to invade him just like Lautrec. This man, while I love to cosplay as him, is sure up to something in my forest.
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    Re: The Darkroot Woods

    Post by DoughGuy on Wed Apr 04, 2012 3:53 am

    Lets take a look at Shiva. He's from the east, possibly hunted by assasins. He's looking for the chaos blade. Why would looking for a blade make him untrustworthy. Well he is second in command of the hunters. When he finds the blade he simply runs off. maybe Alvina simply feared him abandoning the covenant once he got what he wanted?


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    Re: The Darkroot Woods

    Post by Tolvo on Wed Apr 04, 2012 3:55 am

    Maybe she fears him going after the Sword of Artorias, he is a collector of sorts and very susicious.
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    Re: The Darkroot Woods

    Post by DoughGuy on Wed Apr 04, 2012 3:57 am

    If she knows he collects and sells weapons she might be fearful he could raid the grvae, steal all the swords there. But how could he beat Sif?


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    Re: The Darkroot Woods

    Post by Tolvo on Wed Apr 04, 2012 3:59 am

    How do we beat Sif? I mean really he has a large arcing weapon, and one of the strongest Medium shields around. Being a skilled warrior and hunter, he probably could tackle Sif I think. As well his armor is designed against slashing, which is the only way Sif uses the weapon, when I think about it he is very well fitted to fight the wolf. Raiding the graves is another possibility, or even killing other hunters in secret is another.
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    Re: The Darkroot Woods

    Post by DoughGuy on Wed Apr 04, 2012 4:02 am

    You raise good points. And since he wouldnt be doing it to prove himself but for money it would give Alvina reason to be worried.


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    Re: The Darkroot Woods

    Post by Tolvo on Wed Apr 04, 2012 4:13 am

    That's another thing, with the idea of greed coming into the mix. There have been ideas brought up I believe by Skare about Ornstein wanting something from the Grave, or from Artorias to ensure their standing. I could see it as reasonable that Shiva is somehow working for them, if he is indeed working towards Artorias' grave. However the Chaos Blade and Btown are another issue, why would he move so far from the grave if that was his goal? Another possibility is Alvina fearing getting mixed up with the Chaos Covenant.
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    Re: The Darkroot Woods

    Post by Dr. Demento on Wed Apr 04, 2012 4:19 am

    Just a random thought here...maybe shiva is in btown to get the chaos blade? quelag is down there...untill you kill her...


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    Re: The Darkroot Woods

    Post by Tolvo on Wed Apr 04, 2012 4:22 am

    That is another possibility, though I wonder why he would wait so long to do it? Maybe he is waiting for someone else to do it, then is planning to kill and rob them? He is a hunter and looter, and while you might think, "He'd fight something he thinks he can't kill?" But, there's a difference between fighting a monster and ambushing a human being who killed a monster. That might be why the Black Orb would be there as well. You get the Soul of Queelag, or the Chaos Blade, and he jumps and kills you taking the weapon/soul. New players would probably be *** fighting Shiva, as he has some real combat AI unlike some other NPC's.
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    Re: The Darkroot Woods

    Post by Dr. Demento on Wed Apr 04, 2012 4:25 am

    That's kinda what I was getting at.


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    Re: The Darkroot Woods

    Post by Dr. Demento on Wed Apr 04, 2012 4:28 am

    Maybe he knew that he couldn't defeat quelag or didn't know where the weapon was..so he waited for someone to do it for him.


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    Re: The Darkroot Woods

    Post by Tolvo on Wed Apr 04, 2012 4:31 am

    Makes sense, I agree it is quite a possibility. What I wonder is where would he go next? The Forest Hunters might know about his planning and already Alvina did not trust him, so it is possible he would need to flee someplace else. Also in regards to killing the player, in an ambush. I completely forgot about him, but he does have an Eastern Spook with him who specializes in assassinations and subterfuge. As well I wonder if he was getting the weapon for someone, because I just can't see him getting too interested in the Chaos Blade of his own accord.
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    Re: The Darkroot Woods

    Post by DoughGuy on Wed Apr 04, 2012 4:35 am

    I think he was waiting for someone to kil Quelaag and make the sword. For all his skill Shiva couldnt make it into anor londo and thus couldnt make the weapon. So he neds someone to kill Quelaag, take the soul, forge the sword and then he can kill them. Now think about his part in the covenant. Shiva knows about the chosen undead. He knows that they will ring both bells and he knows you need to kill Quelaag to ring the second bell. He also knows you'll need the covenant of artorias to walk the abyss. SO he waits with the forest hunters, waiting for the chosen undead to make the trip into the forest so he can kill them and loo their body for the sword.


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    Re: The Darkroot Woods

    Post by Dr. Demento on Wed Apr 04, 2012 4:37 am

    I agree, maybe somebody hired himto get the weapon? I have no idea who though.....and why is his little assassin buddy always hiding and nearly invisible?


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    Re: The Darkroot Woods

    Post by Tolvo on Wed Apr 04, 2012 4:42 am

    As well being well established in the forest he'd know easily how to B-Line it right out of there as he needs to. Plus he might be able to get the other hunters to help, he is a Clan Leader after all. Imagine if you entered an area to suddenly be ambushed by a ton of assassins who are stealthed and Shiva to fight you, without previous knowledge to buff you would easily be killed. As well phantoms cannot attack Shiva and his bodyguard, so maybe it could apply to this group as well.

    Also, does anyone else ever wonder why you don't get kicked out of the Forest Hunters for fighting and killing Sif?
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    Re: The Darkroot Woods

    Post by Dr. Demento on Wed Apr 04, 2012 4:48 am

    Some of hunters are a pain in the *** to fight 1v1...all of them at once with Shiva?!?!? That'd just be insane.

    Actually I've never wondered why you don't get kicked out for killing Sif..makes me wonder now though.


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    Re: The Darkroot Woods

    Post by DoughGuy on Wed Apr 04, 2012 4:54 am

    I'm pretty sure Alvina no longer likes Sif. I dony know where I heard it but I could swear its said somewhere. They used to be friends but now they're not. It may also be for the same reason that killing Nito doesnt kick you out of the gravelords. Shouldnt be punished for doing a necessary task.


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    Re: The Darkroot Woods

    Post by Dr. Demento on Wed Apr 04, 2012 4:59 am

    I know where you heard that..after a few forest invasions alvina will say that sif is corrupted and needs to be dealt with..or something along those lines.


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    Re: The Darkroot Woods

    Post by Dr. Demento on Wed Apr 04, 2012 5:03 am

    Dr. Demento wrote:I know where you heard that..after a few forest invasions alvina will say that sif is corrupted and needs to be dealt with..or something along those lines.



    Never mind...this isn't true. sad


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